Hi, all! It’s been a minute.
My husband has acted as my parents' POA for several years now. Thankless work, as many know. My dad passed on March 1 and my sister has made moves to take control of my mother and her finances. My sister thinks there’s a lot more money than there is, it seems.
Anyway, my Mom’s AL called yesterday to tell my husband my mom hasn’t paid rent and he is the guarantor. I believe he signed all the initial documents “as POA” when she was in rehab and unable to sign for herself needing to be placed in AL on an emergency basis. Now that he is no longer POA, we need to get him off that contract. I don’t have a signed copy to confirm he did sign as guarantor or not. Working on that.
When somebody changes their POA, do they get a new lease to get the prior POA’s name off everything? We have a call into a lawyer but we haven’t talked to her yet. Just wondered if anybody’s been through this.
We want to “cancel” the contract, which indicates you have to provide 30 days notice to limit our exposure and have the AL draw up a new contract for my sister or mother to sign themselves, but I don’t want to cause problems. Anybody have any insight or similar experience?
I still read the questions that hit my email, but it’s funny how quickly things change after long periods of same same same. Different day, different drama. As the assisted living turns. Days of their lives ….
wow, I don't quite understand how or why mom is suddenly thrust into the role of managing her funds, bank accounts, and paying bills, if her husband always took care of that. It is not something she can do without help!
Did your sister convince mom to change POA to her?
It is a big responsibility being POA, and if your sister isn't able to perform the task responsibly and in your mother's best interests, it may be time to go to court to revoke the sister as POA. She has a fiduciary responsibility, and if bills are not being paid, she is failing to perform.
As far as your husband signing the AL contract as a guarantor, you say you are "working on that". Ask the AL to provide you a copy of this contract they say makes your husband responsible for paying on her behalf. If they can not show you any such agreement, then he has no responsibility! I'm sure they are just bluffing, trying to get payment by any means possible!
But, the bill has to be paid. Your mother risks being kicked out. Maybe that's what your sister wants, so she can save mom's money as a future inheritance.
If your mother is not been diagnosed or declared incompetent then no one can "take control" of her or her finances.
Your mother if she is competent can change her POA.
If you think that your sister is doing this to maybe financially abuse her control you should do what you have to to stop it.
But as you have said being a POA, if done correctly, is not an easy task.
Please heed advice given by the "pros" below....
IMO, all your husband needs to do is call the AL director and tell them that Mom has revolked his POA, you have a letter if he wants you to email a copy. As far as you know, your sister has taken over those responsibilities. That now that your Dad has passed, maybe the AL needs to re-address the contract with Mom and sister. Also, Mom said check is in the mail. Give director sisters phone# if he doesn't have it. Tell them to make changes in their records showing that sister is now the contact.
Billing offices are usually offsight. You may want to inform them too that POA is revolked and that sister is now their contact and give them her phone#. If you continue to get calls concerning Moms payments tell them to call sister and lose your phone# and then block them.
If your Dad paid the bill monthly, you were probably down as a contact to call when bill was not paid. As POA you had the ability to pay that Bill from your parents bank acct. Thats why u got the call. Like said, you need to inform everyone that you gave a copy of your POA to now a copy of the letter where its revolked.
I may not worry about a lawyer unless you get a collections letter or you get a hard time from the director.
Hoping he signed correctly, or this is a mess, but in any case the AL must now be referred to the new POA. He should ALREADY have resigned as all POA with all entities he was working with. That is to say that when sister went in as POA then a letter should have been sent to the AL (and ALL other entities for bill paying) that there is a new POA, and her contact information.
Why is there no documentation of documents signed when Mom went into AL? WHERE are all the records? The POA, if active, is required to have and keep all these records.
Glad you are contacting the attorney.
At this point a copy of this letter goes to the new POA, the sister.
These two need to get it together to speak with and work with one another in this transfer, or this will be a total mess eventually, and a legal one at that, and the person who is LEGAL POA gets to have their fees in court paid by Mom, but hubby won't.
Good luck.
This should be his stance on the matter, that everything and anything was signed as POA. Understand what I am saying?
You said your worried about him being able to cancel the contract because of the revocation. It doesn't need to be canceled, he is not personally responsible, your mom is. I would however send a copy of the revocation and instruct the facility to contact whomever is the POA now or mom directly and provide the contact information.
Gosh, more proof that no good deed goes unpunished. I hope your mom can actually handle things and not let your sister take all of her money and then dump and run, leaving you with a giant crisis. Do you think having APS check on things would be beneficial?
Prayers for a smooth transition from POA to SIL.
Do you have the letter from the attorney that your mother signed rescinding her sons POA? This letter should be sent to every single entity that has his POA on file. Any snail mail, email or other correspondence should be unopened and sent back with a note that he is no longer POA. Perhaps an in person meeting to the ALF is best if local and not a hinderance to your husband in order to get the message quicker and a confirmation that his name has been removed.
Good luck!!
Also he should be reading the document to see when his PoA is actually active. Usually people put in that 1 official medical diagnosis by a doctor is necessary, unless it is a Durable PoA (which makes it active the moment it is signed).
If husband is getting her mail or bank statements or anything, then he needs to start informing those entities that he is not the PoA (if it was ever actually active) and making sure it all goes to her or her PoA.
Why would he be on "stand-by" waiting to help when your Mom now has a new PoA? He needs to step out and stay out. If Mom has a new active PoA you don't have any real power anyway and should only step back in if you have proof of elder financial abuse.
I would consult with either an elder law or contract law attorney to clarify if you have any exposure right now. If not, I wouldn't do anything.
Hopefully, the facility is just trying to collect by asking anyone involved, and he didn’t erroneously sign personally as a guarantor without paying attention. I can’t see a “professionally run“ facility voluntarily, removing an actual guarantor from a contract out of the goodness of their hearts.
Still, if your mother has money to pay for her own bills, there’s no reason he should have to do it. So in the unlikely event that the facility manage to collect from him personally, he could sue your mother, whose new POA would have to defend the suit or just pay him back, possibly including lawyer fees.
Is no one concerned about why the new POA is not paying the bill? If the old POA hasn’t actually been replaced yet, I’d suggest that he look into paying the bill from her funds ASAP and maybe pre-paying the next month.
Someone definitely needs to have a look at that contract. And as always, if you want legal advice you can rely on, consult an appropriate attorney.
The POA revocation was unexpected. (We probably should have expected it but didn’t think it would get that far.). Rent hasn’t been paid because Mom said she wanted to handle things herself. When my husband asked if that means he should resign she didn’t say yes. Instead, at the end of their long and winded conversation, husband told her he’d step back but be there in the background if he needed her. (He’s either stupid or a saint .. or both.). She said okay. He told her the status of dad’s life insurance and the taxes and that was that.
Couple weeks later, we get the revocation letter in the mail. Same day, Husband called mom about the collections call he got from AL corporate office and she said she had just mailed a check a day ago and due to X.Y,Z and her leg hurting, she couldn’t get down to the mailbox so it was going to be late. We believe she means to pay rent - but she doesn’t know what she’s doing nor realize where her money is. (Which of her accounts). It will take time for my sister to get the bank to establish her as new POA and such. We can’t know or help because my husband’s authority is revoked.
She does have the money, for now, though a big chunk of what she has needs to be probated because my dad didn’t have a beneficiary listed for his IRA. Didn’t see that coming either - they were married 55 years and it was assumed he named her when he established the IRA many, many years ago. A consent to probate the copy of Dads will was also sent because it’s only a copy and not the original will. My brother and I haven’t signed yet.
Issue is we don’t trust my sister so want nothing to do with any of Mom’s financial affairs now that sister is involved. She can be guarantor.
Our ideas are:
1. Cancel the contract with the AL - my mom can sign a new one. If husband is named on a contract, he surely has the right to cancel it following their cancellation terms.
2. Call mom’s new atty (the one that sent the revocation) and let her know his plan to cancel the contract so she can assist Mom with new one.
3. Wait for our appt with the lawyer we were working with. Given the 30 day cancellation terms, I’m anxious to get started to limit our exposure.
Your answer was helpful. If his signing the contract “as POA” means he is signing as her and not himself .. maybe that means he cannot cancel it. That’s a concern of mine.