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I think it makes sense for elderly to use trash for toilet paper so toilet wont clog so easily. And to help them get in habit so Depends or dirty underwear do not go into toilet. I guess paper after #2 needs to be flushed but still .... My uncle lives in a place that had constant clogging. He pointed out to me that elderly are proper and try to clean themselves - sometimes just trying to hide dirty underwear by flushing it away. Also tend to use lots of toilet paper to keep hands clean. Maybe using a basket for everything is a good habit after all.
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Karen, Lasix is a mixed blessing. My mother doesn't need Lasix every day now, thank goodness, but she does need them occasionally. She has a lot of accidents when she takes Lasix. My mother is a bit lazy and stays in her pajamas all day. She doesn't wear any type of underwear, but uses her pajamas like Depends. She washes them out in the sink afterwards, then hangs them out the bathroom window like a flag. I'm glad her bathroom window is not on the front of the house! That would be embarrassing. I don't like the way she does this, but I've come to accept that it is the way she is and just roll with it. I do wish I liked the smell of vinegar. It is the best thing I know to neutralize the smell of urine. Mostly I just use soapy water or a bathroom cleaner because the smell of vinegar is as bad to me as the smell of urine. :)

The best thing for me is to just accept that it is the way it is and not to be mad with it. Her bathroom is small, so doesn't take too long to clean.
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Karen, this is not typical behavior after heart problems/stroke, as I'm sure you know. This is clearly a cognitive problem. Has she ever been evaluated for dementia? It might help your siblings to accept this if she had an "official" diagnosis and it wasn't just you trying to convince them.

It might also help you and your daughter to be a little less stressed if you find out what she has and can read up on what to expect. Come back here often.
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Thank you to all for your answers and kindness. I'm feeling very stressed. One of my daughters still lives at home. She is a blessing to me because I could not do all this without her help. However she is stressed too. My mom is on Lasix so she pees a lot. I understand that. But every time you need to use the bathroom you must look before you sit. I do keep the Lysol wipes near the toilet and have now removed the rug. I'm thinking of removing the wastebasket but I'm afraid she'll just throw the tissue on the floor. I have 3 siblings, a brother and two sisters. I have tried to explain what's happening to them but I don't think they understand. The bathroom is just part of it. She doesn't wash her hands and yet she bakes sometimes. Who wants to eat that? I feel that all we do is clean. I've started taking pictures of things to show the family. Maybe then they will see. I feel bad talking about her like this. But it helps when other people can understand.
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Karen, Ask your mother to stay on the toilet and call you for help, as she is a fall risk with urine wetting the floor.
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Another neighbor could not get out of her bathtub. The tub was full of water, she was without clothes. 911 had come several times, breaking in the door.

When her daughter called 911, the paramedics had to ask her daughter to cover her up with a sheet and to let the water out.
I think it is easier to help someone up without the water in the tub.
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When elderly fall, it would be tempting to make them comfortable where they fell, bring in blankets, a pillow, as if it's ok to rest there awhile, change them, clean them up, and decide if the paramedics should come.

A neighbor fell outside, scraped her hands, sitting there she was too weak to get up and her dH was unable due to Alz. So I sat down beside her on the rough asphalt, as her and I assessed what was possible. Wait there....
Bringing these things, plus a bowl and cotton, and Betadine or Hibiclens (have it
on hand), helped her recover. She was terminal and on hospice, but was hanging up her clothes on the clothesline. She refused to allow us to call 911.

Borrowing a walker, assisting her to sit on the seat, rolling her over to her stairs, she was able to get inside on her own. The whole process only took about 1/2 hour.

Someone should have been there to help me off the ground after that. Lol.
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Oh, MsMadge - your poor mom - and the poor paramedics! Lovely of them to remind you that she needs to be changed.

Karen, I hope you come back and let us know how you've decided to deal with the situation.
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Susan,
I've been there too

Every time mom falls she seems to poop herself in the process - it's bad enough having to call the paramedics to pick her up but when she smells like poo saying sorry guys just doesn't seem enough - one time they actually told me she needs to be changed - like it wasn't already obvious- ha ha ha
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MsMadge - try finding a depends in the washing machine after Mom left it in her underwear and, trying to be helpful, put her clothing in the washer for me and started it. Now *that* was fun......
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Susan's post says it all pretty well

If you have a rug near the toilet - remove it
Put a liner in the trash can to dispose of it easier

Keep some wipes handy and wipe the toilet seat and remember to lift it and wipe underneath

Baking soda and vinegar in warm water with a sponge around the tank will neutralize the odor

I sponged the hallway rug every morning as much mom dribbled from her bed to the toilet and oftentimes stepped in a puddle of pee in the bathroom

It did no good to tell her to stop as she would deny it and said it was water from her hands

She did the best she could and would even try to wash out her depends which is a nightmare if it disintegrates in the pipe

Now several years later at the age of 93 she still tries to make it in time but not always and she'll sometimes hand me the TP and I have to tell her to wipe and put in the toilet

Dementia is a long hard journey for everyone
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Karen, this is one of the first things we see when dementia starts to kick in. Not saying that's the case with your mom, but how old is she, and does she have a history of dementia already?

Just telling her not to do it is probably not the answer here. Someone who is starting to experience symptoms of dementia has no idea why they're doing these things that we find objectionable or odd. My mother did the same thing - she didn't use any incontinence products for years before I moved in, even though she needed them. The furniture in the house was covered with towels, which of course did no good whatsoever, the bathroom rugs were stiff with old urine drips and the toilet was a constant mess.

There's a three-fold problem here. An elderly person may not have the ability to stand straight up off the toilet like a younger person does, so they kind of "drag" themselves forward off the toilet. This leads to urine/feces being deposited on the toilet seat or floor. Then there's the toilet tissue in the trash - that's a dementia issue in most cases. They simply find themselves with toilet paper in their hand and forget where it's supposed to go. This is one of the early signs of dementia and the one that we usually notice first, because it's one of the more obvious ones. The third problem in this scenario is that many elders start to lose sensation in the genital area, coupled with loss of control of the muscles to stop their urine stream due to age. They simply can't control it anymore, and due to the loss of sensation in that area, they don't always realize that the urine is still flowing or that they're not quite "done".

My mother had all of these symptoms. I had to discuss the toilet paper in the trash with her - she had no idea why she was doing it and couldn't explain it. At one point, she said, "It just seemed like that's where it should go." - indicating she had no idea where that toilet tissue was supposed to go. Her mind had simply lost that little fact and she couldn't figure it out.

If your Mom is starting down the dementia road, you're going to have to gently and respectfully offer to help her in the bathroom, or if neither of you are open to that, you will need to find some other solution. I hate to be blunt, but if dementia is the problem, it's not going to get better.
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My mother does that. The smell can get pretty bad. Saying anything to her doesn't help. I think the wet toilet seat comes from her barely making it to the bathroom in time. Sometimes she doesn't make it in time and wipes the floor. She throws some tissue in the toilet, other in the covered trash, and some on the floor. I think she is just coping with low mobility and urinary urgency. I just clean the best I can, but it always smells like urine in her bathroom. I can clean one day and the smell is back the next. I think it is just part of elder care. Strange thing is that she doesn't smell it. My mother still has a sharp sense of smell except when it comes to urine and the old-age smell of the house. She is totally nose blind to those smells.
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Tell her she's doing those things and ask that she not. Tell her when it's just the two of you.
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