Can I pay myself a small salary for handling my Dad's finances?

I'm sorry that your father is in a NH, Texas Daughter. I'm not sure to what extent you are involved in his caregiving, other than paying his bills. I'm not quite sure that counts as being a caregiver. Do you bathe him? Do you dress him? Do you plan and prepare his meals? Do you dose his meds? Do you run errands for him? Do you schedule his doctor appointments? Do you clean up his bowel/bladder accidents? How much time would you estimate that you spend handling his finances? Many bills can be paid online or automatically debited from his bank account. When I took over my parents' finances, as well as all of the above, I reduced the amount of time devoted to bill paying to a matter of minutes per week, so that I had more time to care for their basic needs. Maybe it wouldn't be such a burden on you if you had all his bills automatically debited from his account.

I am the OP and surprised to see so many responses. I wrote this five days ago and probably should've written more explanation but this was my first question here. My Father has advanced alzheimer's, has had dementia for 11 years and been in a NH for five. He was able to delay moving to a NH for awhile due to myself and my husband's help and we have done the most of all the siblings. For many years before his dementia my husband and I did home repairs, etc. to help my parents. My Mother also had a dementia disease so for 6 years it was both of them on a daily basis. My Mother told me way back to pay myself a salary as long as they could afford it and I have been doing that (a small amount) for many years and it was never an issue until now. My Dad's money is starting to run out and I anticipate if he lives long enough he will have to go on Medicaid in less than 5 years and I didn't want my salary to be an issue for a penalty since I am the guarantor for the NH bill. As it is he cannot communicate or walk or even transfer -- just sleeps or lays in a chair all day -- but he eats well so who knows? I actually was able to get ahold of a medicaid caseworker who told me that since I signed the checks all I needed to do was write on the memo line for services rendered and it shouldn't be a problem but obviously the larger the amount the more something would be scrutinized. And to those that asked it is more than just paying a few bills, there are some brokerage accounts, retirement benefits, perscriptions, etc. If I didn't do it I would have to pay someone else.

The schism is this thread is that the OP asked if it was ok to be paid to take care of Dad's expenses while he was in a NH.
OTHERS chimed in with stories of all the pain they have taking care of loved one.
TWO different things.
Being paid to manage bills is what this thread started out with.
I too take care of live in dementia mom.
that is NOT what the OP asked about.

Texas,
this topic always brings out the worst in all of us. The question of can you pay yourself to handle Dad's finances may well be answered in the POA. My mom's explicitly permits the POA to pay themselves at the going rate in our area. Check the POA, and are you sorry you asked this question yet?

So, many think it is wrong, but what would the parent want? Would they want to pay you? The answer may be in the POA. If it is not, I would check with an attorney. There may be other language in there that permits you to negotiate contracts with others for your Dad. You cannot negotiate with yourself, but could with your Dad's elder law attorney, perhaps.

I think the truth of the matter is that as much as we b*tch and complain, we have chosen our roles as caregiver. There is no law that says we HAVE to take them in, or move in with them. Many children grow up, move away, and never even have any contact with their parents ever again. The truth is, any of us could walk away, if our conscience would allow it. Some agency would see they were admitted to a home where they'd be cared for. It's a cultural thing. Eskimos used to put them on an ice floe and send them off to die. Some cultures would never think of putting an elder "away" just because they are an inconvenience. I think it's important to know your own motives. I have a well ingrained sense of guilt, but I would never have given up my job and ability to care for myself, in order to care for a parent, at the expense of my own stability. We all choose what we think we can do or give. Then we live with the consequences, but should not be judged no matter what our choices may be.

1) I was not dependent on my parents for a full 18 years. Just because I lived in their home until I was 18, does not mean I was "spoiled." At 18, I went to college...that *I* busted my butt to pay for for 4 years, and at that I, at 28, am still paying off.
2) I also never said my parents were amazing parents. Were they nice? Sometimes. Did I always get what I wanted? Heck no. At 28, will my mom still smack me seven ways to Sunday? Absolutely. Do we get along? HARDLY.Whether they're good parents, or bad parents, non-existent parents, whatever the case may be....regardless, you wouldn't be here to complain without them. When the time comes, and my parents need me to be a constant caregiver, then you're daggum right I'll do it without batting an eye. I'm not spoiled. I have no feeling of entitlement whatsoever. But, I am a firm believer in two things: 1) treat people as you'd want them to treat you, 2) money ruins everything and 3) respect and obey your elders. It didn't require having two "great" parents to learn any of these. If I have to survive off grass, hay, and murky water to ensure my parents get constant care when the time comes, then I'll do it. I'm not vein, nor materialistic. I'm a minimalist, and it's pretty unfair for you to assume that because I think taking care of our elders...particularly family...is a privilege, that I must be some aloof, spoiled child with parents who exhibits greatness, then that's pretty sad on your part. And couldn't be further from the truth.

I hope my post didn't come out as I was slamming you. I was not all our situations are different and levels of what we can handle is different also. good luck

I think that all of the negative slams to Texas Daughter are uncalled for. We are supposed to be a supportive group here. Let's remember to judge not least we be not judged by the same measure. We don't know how much work it might be to handle her father's finances.

If your father in law is in a facility, he gets 50.00 of his monthly Medicare check and this is to be used for him not for you. I live in Texas and this is what I have been told, by the facility. They should know, be careful how the money is spent you don't want to have to pay it back . Caregivers don't always get the help they deserve. Good luck

Why would you want to? Didn't he take care of all your needs when you were growing up?

What a wonderful Father's Day present, pay yourself for helping your father. Does the term "Honor thy father and mother" have any meaning? I lost my father when I was 11 yrs. and would give anything to have the pleasure of handling his finances.

GrammyM said, "I've heard where nieces, granddaughters are taking care of relatives and getting paid by various programs..." I my niece is at home assisting my mother. What programs are there that can pay her as a caregiver?

I hope this will go thru..I forgot my password and think i might have locked myself out before i put the right one in.
I completely cant identify with all of you. Frustration;depression...i've gone thru all of it. I have learned so much. I too can't understand the change in my bros. We have it so i am Mom's legal guardian and they get to watch her money in the bank..lol. That's ok with me, all i wanted was to take care of Mom, and i do it in her home. I do everything but the money. The bank does that. I take her to the BR and do all the stuff, sometimes gross but it needs to be done. I'm surprised how much a person can get used to stuff after a while and it doesn't bother as much anymore.
After a year of taking care of my Mom, the attny who came to evaluate my Mom told me that i don't need to get any more training, i just need to HIRE someone to stay with her once or twice a wk...(in otherwards, the bnk is paying that part), so i can get out and shop and have some personal time. But nxt to giving up my job and taking the early retirement, i don't have much money to save, as i still have my health ins and lic plate and cell phone and vet etc. I'm thankful that i can share with my Mother in her home, and take care of her and be her friend, and i will forever, (until i loose my memory)...have our discussions where she has shared so many of her thoughts and rememberences.

My bros also have not seen our Mom, or even called her since January 1, 2014. No speaking is going on between them and myself. Strange that we all 3 came from the same heart and womb. I can forgive someday, but they are loosing out on their Mom's love, and she also is loosing out not getting any love from them. I bet my Dad will get out the belt again when he greets them at his mansion in the sky.

How involved are your father's finances? Does he have stocks, rental property or a business that you need to take care of? I took care of that and still do for my mother and all of this takes time and lots of it. I say if he can afford it, why not? Make sure it won't bite you later with Medicaid.

All I know is that these things get messy really quickly. I have relatives who were inseparable and now haven't talked for years because of money handling issues while their parents were living their last years. I'm observing a similar situation now. In my own family there was almost no resource but as the primary caregiver for my dad, I kept records, only spent on his specific expenses, and actually paid out of pocket for my own and his associated costs when eating out and things like that. If there are substantial resources, I suggest an attorney and good record keeping. A written agreement signed by all relative family members on who is doing what and how the reporting will be done (monthly, annual, etc) - is also a good idea.

First, the practical – go see an elder law attorney. Call several. Some only do this sort of work in an expensive package of services, others you can pay by the hour strictly for advice.
Second – I so wish people would bite their tongues when they feel compelled to rant on the subject of "your parent(s) raised you and sacrificed for you all your life and how dare you...."
Considering that you haven't "walked a mile in the shoes" of the person you're scolding, it is really insensitive. You have no idea what kind of parenting they enjoyed (or survived) during their childhood and, as is pointed out EVERY TIME the comment arises, children aren't born with obligation to their parents. Their parents choose to have them.
Some adult children can't or choose not to be their parent's direct caregiver. The idea that they are "not as good" as adult children who do take up that role is offensive.

I am not sure in other states but in Colorado you can not gift your children anything for the 5 year look back. You would do well to contact your local Human/Social Services to ask about the rules in your state for Medicaid Look Back. I believe if your name has been on the account for more than 5 years you should be o.k. If not and you want to "pay" yourself for services rendered - it cannot be more than 50.00/mth. As I said before you should contact Human Services and talk with the Adult Programs Technician or Supervisor to have your questions answered. Best of Luck!

Hospitals & nursing homes will eat up every last bit PhD savings an elder has very quickly prior to qualifying for Medicaid. Elders can gift their caretakers/children, etc. whatever they want, prior to establishing a Medicaid trust fund. There is usually a 5 yr look back before their money is fully protected. Many people would prefer to leave something to their
heirs than to give it all to a money making home or hospital. It's the principal of the situation.Hospitals today do not keep people as long as they used to & expect family members to pick up the 24 hr care, which forces them to give up jobs, personal lives indefinitely. This makes it very difficult on caregivers. I don't think the elders would want this scenario for their children, or turn their care into a "life sentence" for their spouse. Consult with elder care lawyer while your loved ones can still express their wishes, including a living will.

Taking care of either of our Mother's finances was a full time job. I paid my adult nephew, to handle Mother's accounts. I was on the accounts. Dealing with selling property, taxes, household contents, insurance, medicare, prescriptions, etc. It goes on and on.

I don't know anyone that can work all day and then, work on this stuff all night.

You are not asking for anything more than reimbursement for time spent. An attorney or accountant would not do this work for free. Pay yourself.

Texasdaughter asks a very valid question. She'd be wise to get the Elder lawyer someone recommended. I love my father dearly and am doing everything in my power to help him stay in his home till death. But he didn't save for old age and I and my husband are trying to do it. It's a fact that parents choose to have children, but children are simply born and did not choose to have parents. But as adults we may choose if and how we will care for our parents. Co-dependency is something I tangle with all the time. Do I give up my own identity totally to care for another? Or can balance, critical thinking and planning for my own and my family's future also be in the picture there? Seeking that balance is a constant practice for me and guilt, anger, and fear are always just under the surface.

My parents are lucky (and so am I). They worked hard and saved diligently while still enjoying life. I'm sure they hoped to be able to leave some of that hard earned savings to me rather than paying it all to a nursing/personal care facility. So now that they need full time care why shouldn't they pay me to quit my job and care for them rather than spend way more to pay a stranger.
If your loved one has the finances to afford it don't feel guilty about taking an income. I'm sure they'd rather see you get the money than some agency.

A&A, I think it's really about perspective and how you veiw your life. If you feel that your parents gave you something so very intangible, i.e., your life, that you want to respect, honor and care for them in return for that gift, then caregiving becomes less of a task.

If your don't see life as a gift and see caregiving as an unwelcome obligation, than your perspective makes sense.

However, it seems that the tasks you mentioned are ones our parents did for us...cooking, cleaning, teaching, chauffeuring and more. Granted that it's more difficult to do those for an elder person with an acquired mind set than it is for a child who can be disciplined and told what to do.

I don't disagree that caregiving is a challenge, often an unwelcome one, and one that's made more difficult by a modern lifestyle that places less value on home life and bonds and sometimes more on being able to be technologically savvy and market that savvy effectively.

I also wouldn't deny that some parents either didn't have or weren't able to learn good parenting skills, or had some other issues that rendered them unable to be loving parents. And I certainly understand the resentment that would accompany anyone feeling forced into caregiving for those parents.

But as to the specific question, I don't see that simply taking care of a parents' finances is so time consuming that it warrants payment. Unless you're managing investments and contacting a stockbroker on a regular basis to play the market or gaming the commodities markets, financial management of a parent's funds just isn't that time consuming.

Peach44, I really have to challenge your assertion that attorneys just "rip you off by charging more...". You have to consider their training, acquired knowledge, and the need to continually keep up with changing statutes and case law.

Granted, there are unscrupulous attorneys, just there are unscrupulous doctors, engineers, contractors, politicians...you name the field and there's likely someone of questionable ethics. It's unfortunate that so many people single out lawyers for attack.

If you really believe they're rippffs, perhaps you should investigate what it takes to become one, and try doing the work you might otherwise have them do by yourself. Without assistance. Try researching a subject, Shepardizing it, and see how difficult it really is. Or try to draft a Will, or more challenging, a revocable trust.

Alice - Each states medicaid program is different. You must live is a state that actually cares. We used to live in one of those states but had to move for health reasons where it was warmer. Don't think for one minute that I have not tried by all means possible including contacting state representatives and senators for assistance and legal services. There are people out there that don't have hundreds let alone thousands to pay for lawyers that is why they are on medicaid. Legal services would not help us that is how "helpful" our state is.

Always check with an attorney - every situation, and sibling is different. My sibling has done nothing in 2.5 years and I have given up work and my personal life to care for a abusive mother. I my situation, I can not pay myself as a POA, I can gift myself money. However as the trustee I can pay myself a " reasonable" amount and I set it up with a CPA as the trust as a business. What works nicely is the amount I get paid is what she used to pay for taxes on the trust, so she isn't out any more money. Each situation is different and an attorney (a good one) is worth every penny.

After Mama's accident two and a half years ago, we had two choices, NH or one of us move in with her to take care of her 24/7. I lived in a townhome and so the layout of my home was not appropriate for her mobility issues at the time. I left my home, gave up my job, withdrew my retirement account when it became apparent the sibling was not going to contribute one dime to anything pertaining to her care...I will be paying off her medical bills for the rest of my life...again, nothing contributed from sibling. Therefore, I live with Mama, am her sole caregiver, have not been away from this home for more than a few hours at most in over two years, have no backup, and now am in the process of losing my home, which will not sell due to a depressed market where it is located and Mama got hit with a substantial penalty for not having Medicare Part B at the time of her accident...I don't buy clothes, have my hair done professionally..now being an 8 1/2 Champagne Blonde out of a box, no pedicures or manicures and no dining out for me...I don't get "paid" in the sense of a paycheck, but I live here with her and care for her, so I suppose that is my pay...later on down the road, IF there is a later for me, I will be starting all over in my late fifties.... advances in medicine are enabling our loved ones to live such long lives now, but way too many of us (me) never foresaw this situation...Mama was so healthy all her life, totally independent prior to the fall and everyone just assumed she would probably go working in her yards where she was happy.....who could have foretold she would sustain that head injury, which we were told accelerated her dementia, now early onset alzheimers and now she is totally bedfast....not where I pictured myself at this point of my life. I am not complaining, but it has been heartbreaking to me to see how little my brother cares about what I am doing...but I will have a clear conscious...I HAVE a clear conscious....not sure how folks like him ever do....

There are lots of programs out there, and the money and expertise of a elder care lawyer can really help. Don't go to a regular estate attorney make sure you see an elder care attorney. They know all of the ins and outs and while it will be a bit expensive you will save thousands in the end. There are programs which would allow you to be paid once Medicaid kicks in, but the prep of the
Also if someone in the family or you have a mental illness assets in some cases can be turned over without penalty. Again that is why the elder care attorney is helpful. It is saving my Dad and us a lot of money.

All of you that keep suggesting that she consult with an attorney - attorneys are very expensive. My experiences have been that they do all they can to rip you off by charging for much more than they actually do.

Dukeblue2004, and all the other judgies..... Not all of our parents were as good as yours apparently were. All parents are not good parents. You need to stop kidding yourself. Still, I'm fulfilling my obligation to take care of them now when all of my siblings have pretty much walked away. I, for one, don't feel like I should have to do this for free, and there are many more like me. I repeat, not all parents are good parents.

theresa - in some states medicaid will pay for attendant care for a family member if the attendant is not also the representative. Since I am my mother's representative, I am not eligible to be paid to take care of her. The state and medicaid has blocked me every way I turn but this is not the thread for my problems. I do like your comment.

TexasD - Just how much time are you spending on you dad's finances per month that you feel a need to be paid?

Lucy, what is your financial situation? Are you married? Do you have spouse to depend on for your needs? Do you have insurance coverage? Do you have siblings that share equally in the care responsibility? Do you have retirement savings to take care of you when you need them? Do you have a job other than caring for dad? Are you independently wealthy? Do you own your own home, separate from dad's? There are way too many factors to be considered. It has impacted my livelihood! So, I do not fit into your mold. I gave up a good paying career, have drained my IRA to try to keep my home, I have two siblings within 10 miles, that do NOTHING to assist with day to day care. They don't want to pay me because of impact on their inheritance, but it is ok with them that I provide exceptional care while losing everything I have every worked for.

Money is to provide for their care regardless of who provides it. Many caregivers have become poor while benefitting entitled siblings. Most parents in this situation would want to pay the child caregiver, that is why Medicaid allows it.