@frjone, you are reacting to this far too mildly and taking tangential steps rather than facing head-on that your mother’s life is heading for complete disaster.
Your father’s current path is going to drain every penny for your mother’s future, while you slowly try to get a doctor to finish testing him for dementia, etc… and look for gentle solutions which won’t upset him too much. At this point, who cares if it’s dementia, or pure evil intent? Who cares if he is upset?
You said “…it will be tricky if my father fails to cooperate.” You also wrote “…he is willing to abandon his family for his scammer.” What more do you need to know? Your mother’s future is going to be hellish if he first drains her funds and then leaves her, so your options are to either let her be entirely destroyed, or you get her disconnected from him proactively starting today. There is no alternative.
Get a hard hitting lawyer today to assist in splitting the assets, and discuss divorce. Your father is no longer the father you knew, and the husband your mother chose, so you are trying to save something no longer there. Do not let your mother go down. Unless this is straightened out quickly, a divorce might be the only thing to save your mother’s future. You may have to let your dad sink his own ship.
Yes, of course do continue with alerting all authorities such as IC3.gov, your parents’ known banks fraud division, local police, FBI and all others your new lawyer will recommend.
Additionally, ask the new lawyer if it would be wise for him/her to draft and send a letterhead letter to the celebrity’s professional manager and professional agent, both. Virtually all genuine celebrities have both a manager and an agent. The lawyer must alert them that someone is using the celebrity’s good name to con money from one innocent old man, and most likely from other gullible eldsters, too. The celebrity’s own people might be able to take back-end action to nail the fraudster in order to save the celebrity’s reputation even if the FBI, police, bankers etc don’t act for you.
I hope I don’t sound too harsh, but I think you need the biggest wake up call of your life, and I am trying to be the alarm bell for you. Do not drag your feet, this is beyond serious, I am sick at heart for the dangerous situation your mother is in, and I feel dreadful for you, too. After the money is safely split, then and only then can you feel sorry for your father. Until then you need to consider him and his scammer “friend” the enemy.
If your father gives the scammer all his and your mother’s money, they will likely have to ultimately become wards of the state. It is better that only your father walk that path, if the experts aren’t able to stop the fraudster from draining everything. So split out your mother’s life monetarily and matrimonially from your father’s ill-advised friendship and money-draining operation starting today.
You are 100% right. Thanks for your honesty! I have spoken to the police and an attorney and we have already restricted his access to most of his accounts, now trying to get a handle on the new credit cards that he opened solely in his name. At this point, he can't take any more money out of accounts, he can only charge on his credit cards.
They live out of state, so I'm going there this week to start handling things in person and support my mother through the process as she may have to watch her husband, a proud man with a long history of hard work and dedication to his family, get stripped of his dignity. And I'm in full agreement with you that this is about protecting my mother's financial future and her current emotional well-being. I can't afford to feel sorry for him, just have to do what's right.
The only way to have him completely restricted from any financial transactions is to have doctor pronounce him incapable. If he refuses to go to the doctor, as is his current right, it is very complicated and time-consuming to legally prevent him from transacting. We will of course do it, but it could take months and be very stressful for my mother, who is having surgery this week (great timing, right?), so we are trying to shut down as much access as we can right now, limit him to just the two new credit cards he opened and then focus on convincing him to go to the doctor. Otherwise, sadly, we will have to do it against his will. I hope to have a promising update next week.
Thanks again for being so straightforward and offering options. Appreciate it.
That happened to a woman we knew here. She worked in the school system with my mom. Her husband had died, her kids were all grown up and had their own families. She was alone in the house. A scammer befriended her online and she mortgaged her house she owned free and clear and sent the scammer hundreds of thousands. over time. Her daughter found out when the mother said she had trouble paying her bills. The daughter went straight to the county prosecutors office. The FBI was able to recover some of the money for her. Then the mother did it again. That was it. They put her in an assissted living nursing home.We went to visit her there, me and my mom. It was one room, small bathroom, and a tiny kitchenette. It was nice though. She lasted a year before she died. To answer your question, go to the police and county prosecutor's office. They can go after the person scamming the elderly. If your parent doesnt get it, time to go to court maybe to get the power and make all the decisions, like the daughter in the story i posted did.
Thank you for the reply, such a sad story. I actually spoke to the police today and they weren't even sure whether there's enough for a case if the victim doesn't think they're a victim. And of course, once we call police, FBI, etc., my dad will most likely be even angrier with us, especially my mother. We're worried that will just be the end of their marriage because he's been so brainwashed by this scammer. But maybe eventually if the authorities can prove it's a scam, he would have to acknowledge it and come to his senses and maybe there's some hope for them.
I've found that often the authorities don't aggressively pursue scam cases unless it's an astronomical amount of money or it involves a lot of victims. I lived in a condo in which the building manager embezzled well over 100,000 and despite filing police report and finding other buildings that he embezzled from, as well, that building manager is still a free man, living life with hundreds of thousands of dollars that he stole from innocent people.
I don’t know how it’s done in the US, but I gather that there is a way to separate the assets of a couple. Find out how to do it ASAP. If it upsets the apple cart, so what? Him getting cross with mother now is a lot better than him ruining her and then both of them ending up desperate and angry.
In Oz there are official anti-scammer sites that explain exactly how this all works. Surely there must be some in the US? Google scam! Most of them stress never sending money to someone you have never seen. Most also point out that the scammer for males is often male themselves, not the expected lovely lady. And for ladies, it’s a false file photo. Could you get father to read some of the anti- scammer sites, look for their ‘tests’, and try them out “just to be sure”? Say it's to prove he is right and you are wrong!
Thanks for the advice! This was basically our plan for the next step, hoping to sort of diplomatically de-escalate the situation. I've found some articles about this type of scam that list situations similar to what he's experiencing. But I want to find a few more, hopefully ones that are EXACTLY like his situation so we can present them to him. Hopefully it will be like holding up a mirror and he will finally see his situation for what it is.
We've already talked to him about sending money to someone he's never met and he won't acknowledge that there's anything wrong with it. He's never spoken to or seen this person, just believes he's chatting with a movie star online. So sad because he was always such a rational person, especially with money, taught me how to be frugal, how to save, and also how to enjoy the money that you have saved. And now he thinks he's investing in bitcoin and helping out a celebrity friend who has tons of implausible excuses for needing money.
I will keep contacting elder law attorneys until I can get someone on the phone to explain options. From what I've read, it's very hard to separate a married couple's finances unless you file for divorce or declare your spouse incompetent, both of which take a lot of time. If it were easy, imagine how many people might just get angry at their spouse and remove all their funds. It generally has to be proven that the spouse is incapable of managing their money.
Does he have dementia? Call the police about fraud. Get guardianship and handle all the finances. Is he competent? Step back and allow him to make his own decisions. Tell him you will be there if he ever needs you.
If your mom is competent, get her to their bank and have her report this activity so they can shut it down at their end. If he's using credit cards somehow, cancel them if you can. Send a letter to all the credit reporting agencies that he's being scammed and freeze his credit if you can. (Look up how to do it.)
He endangering your mother's finances as well as his own, so he needs to be cut off from them. On another thread here, someone recently used the term "financial abuse" of a spouse who is not on board with financial decisions, and that's exactly what this is.
Your dad is clearly not competent, because he'd know a celebrity doesn't need his money. His ability to reason is defective, so you should also alert his doctor as to what's going on and get him in for a cognition test. (Tell the doctor he needs it, not Dad. He'll never agree to it.)
You're so right, he's clearly not competent in this case. Even though most of the time he seems fine, this is outrageous for him to believe. He actually did take a cognition test but walked out before it was over, we think because he knew he would fail.
My mother told my father that she was refusing to pay for all the charges he's racked up on the credit cards, so he opened 3 new credit cards on his own. We are trying to figure out how to stop him from using those. She's not named on the account so it seems like she has no legal recourse. How do we convince the credit agencies that he's being scammed? That's the big question... And how do we shut down his new cards that are only in his name? That's the other really big question! Thanks again for replying to this.
Thanks for the links. Only problem is the person scamming him is pretending to be a celebrity. He thinks he is literally friends with an actual movie star. She sent him a picture of herself and he somehow thinks that means it's actually her, somehow not realizing that anyone can copy a picture from the internet and send it!
And regarding finances, I suppose I didn't phrase it clearly. Since they have joint accounts, I'm not sure how you separate their funds. From people I've spoken with, he would have to be declared incompetent, have someone take guardianship over him or my mom would have to legally separate from him. Expecting calls back from several attorneys on Monday. Thanks again for trying to help, really appreciate it!
Can you some how disable his computer? Plug cords into the wrong ports, lose the mouse etc etc? Get in and change his password so he can't get online? Sure it's underhanded, but I agree, your concern should be your mom.
Believe it or not, you need to report this to the FBI in your state. If you have phone numbers from the scammers, give that number to them. At any rate, one of the problems with elder care is not reporting. Some states also have an elder abuse line that includes help with financial scamming, not just physical abuse. If they're calling on a cell phone, I suggest changing the number. If its by internet, block the contact whether it's Facebook, email or some social media site. The attorney you have called might be able to get a judge to put a hold on the bank accounts. I can tell you from personal experience that the banks may be willing to talk to you about a temporary hold on funds.
If all acounts are joint, take Mom to the bank(s) and take out all funds. Move them into a separate acount that doesn't have his name on it. All legal, and takes a few hours at most. Mom's liquid assets are now protected, at least what is left of them. Do this for all joint accounts, investments, trusts, etc. Make sure income is directed to these new accounts if possible.
You won't be able to change the title if they jointly own their home, but he should not be able to mortage it without her signature. He might be able to get a HELOC (home equity line of credit) but that at least limits the damage he can do, and he would have to be able to get himself to the bank and complete the paperwork.
See if you can hide his driver's license, passport, or any other legal ID. Without them he can't get any more credit and he might not be able to go through the process to recover them.
Is Mom on board with you protecting her? Or is she an enabler? Will she give him back everything if confronted? Can she pay bills, etc. or does someone else need to be responsible? Is she committed to the marriage or does she want out?
This is really messy, but necessary. I wish you luck.
Thanks for your suggestions! Fortunately, my mom is not an enabler. She has refused to help him pay any credit cards or withdraw money now that she realizes the extent of it. But he still has two new credit cards he opened on his own that she doesn't have access to.
I don't think she will give everything back if confronted, but it will be very hard on her if she is seen as the one masterminding this plot against him, which we fear is how my dad is viewing it. He's been turned against her by his scammer, he clearly has an emotional connection to this person pretending to a be a celebrity he is enamored with. So we are enlisting help from financial advisor, attorney, etc. so that it's not all on her.
We realize that if he doesn't come to his senses and eventually see the truth for what it is, that the marriage may be over. I think mom understands that. It's obviously soul-crushing, but she'd rather end the marriage than watch him blow their life savings and live in a fantasy world.
Your father’s current path is going to drain every penny for your mother’s future, while you slowly try to get a doctor to finish testing him for dementia, etc… and look for gentle solutions which won’t upset him too much. At this point, who cares if it’s dementia, or pure evil intent? Who cares if he is upset?
You said “…it will be tricky if my father fails to cooperate.” You also wrote “…he is willing to abandon his family for his scammer.” What more do you need to know? Your mother’s future is going to be hellish if he first drains her funds and then leaves her, so your options are to either let her be entirely destroyed, or you get her disconnected from him proactively starting today. There is no alternative.
Get a hard hitting lawyer today to assist in splitting the assets, and discuss divorce. Your father is no longer the father you knew, and the husband your mother chose, so you are trying to save something no longer there. Do not let your mother go down. Unless this is straightened out quickly, a divorce might be the only thing to save your mother’s future. You may have to let your dad sink his own ship.
Yes, of course do continue with alerting all authorities such as IC3.gov, your parents’ known banks fraud division, local police, FBI and all others your new lawyer will recommend.
Additionally, ask the new lawyer if it would be wise for him/her to draft and send a letterhead letter to the celebrity’s professional manager and professional agent, both. Virtually all genuine celebrities have both a manager and an agent. The lawyer must alert them that someone is using the celebrity’s good name to con money from one innocent old man, and most likely from other gullible eldsters, too. The celebrity’s own people might be able to take back-end action to nail the fraudster in order to save the celebrity’s reputation even if the FBI, police, bankers etc don’t act for you.
I hope I don’t sound too harsh, but I think you need the biggest wake up call of your life, and I am trying to be the alarm bell for you. Do not drag your feet, this is beyond serious, I am sick at heart for the dangerous situation your mother is in, and I feel dreadful for you, too. After the money is safely split, then and only then can you feel sorry for your father. Until then you need to consider him and his scammer “friend” the enemy.
If your father gives the scammer all his and your mother’s money, they will likely have to ultimately become wards of the state. It is better that only your father walk that path, if the experts aren’t able to stop the fraudster from draining everything. So split out your mother’s life monetarily and matrimonially from your father’s ill-advised friendship and money-draining operation starting today.
Good luck.
They live out of state, so I'm going there this week to start handling things in person and support my mother through the process as she may have to watch her husband, a proud man with a long history of hard work and dedication to his family, get stripped of his dignity. And I'm in full agreement with you that this is about protecting my mother's financial future and her current emotional well-being. I can't afford to feel sorry for him, just have to do what's right.
The only way to have him completely restricted from any financial transactions is to have doctor pronounce him incapable. If he refuses to go to the doctor, as is his current right, it is very complicated and time-consuming to legally prevent him from transacting. We will of course do it, but it could take months and be very stressful for my mother, who is having surgery this week (great timing, right?), so we are trying to shut down as much access as we can right now, limit him to just the two new credit cards he opened and then focus on convincing him to go to the doctor. Otherwise, sadly, we will have to do it against his will. I hope to have a promising update next week.
Thanks again for being so straightforward and offering options. Appreciate it.
I've found that often the authorities don't aggressively pursue scam cases unless it's an astronomical amount of money or it involves a lot of victims. I lived in a condo in which the building manager embezzled well over 100,000 and despite filing police report and finding other buildings that he embezzled from, as well, that building manager is still a free man, living life with hundreds of thousands of dollars that he stole from innocent people.
In Oz there are official anti-scammer sites that explain exactly how this all works. Surely there must be some in the US? Google scam! Most of them stress never sending money to someone you have never seen. Most also point out that the scammer for males is often male themselves, not the expected lovely lady. And for ladies, it’s a false file photo. Could you get father to read some of the anti- scammer sites, look for their ‘tests’, and try them out “just to be sure”? Say it's to prove he is right and you are wrong!
We've already talked to him about sending money to someone he's never met and he won't acknowledge that there's anything wrong with it. He's never spoken to or seen this person, just believes he's chatting with a movie star online. So sad because he was always such a rational person, especially with money, taught me how to be frugal, how to save, and also how to enjoy the money that you have saved. And now he thinks he's investing in bitcoin and helping out a celebrity friend who has tons of implausible excuses for needing money.
I will keep contacting elder law attorneys until I can get someone on the phone to explain options. From what I've read, it's very hard to separate a married couple's finances unless you file for divorce or declare your spouse incompetent, both of which take a lot of time. If it were easy, imagine how many people might just get angry at their spouse and remove all their funds. It generally has to be proven that the spouse is incapable of managing their money.
Is he competent? Step back and allow him to make his own decisions. Tell him you will be there if he ever needs you.
He endangering your mother's finances as well as his own, so he needs to be cut off from them. On another thread here, someone recently used the term "financial abuse" of a spouse who is not on board with financial decisions, and that's exactly what this is.
Your dad is clearly not competent, because he'd know a celebrity doesn't need his money. His ability to reason is defective, so you should also alert his doctor as to what's going on and get him in for a cognition test. (Tell the doctor he needs it, not Dad. He'll never agree to it.)
My mother told my father that she was refusing to pay for all the charges he's racked up on the credit cards, so he opened 3 new credit cards on his own. We are trying to figure out how to stop him from using those. She's not named on the account so it seems like she has no legal recourse. How do we convince the credit agencies that he's being scammed? That's the big question... And how do we shut down his new cards that are only in his name? That's the other really big question! Thanks again for replying to this.
One technique is to use photos. There are commercial ‘check the scammer’ sites as well. Here are a few
https://www.romancescams.org/how-to-outsmart-a-romance-scammer/
https://www.romancescams.org
https://scamdigger.com/pictures-used-by-female-scammers
Don’t to do all this yourself. You are taking on experts in a big business.
And regarding finances, I suppose I didn't phrase it clearly. Since they have joint accounts, I'm not sure how you separate their funds. From people I've spoken with, he would have to be declared incompetent, have someone take guardianship over him or my mom would have to legally separate from him. Expecting calls back from several attorneys on Monday. Thanks again for trying to help, really appreciate it!
You won't be able to change the title if they jointly own their home, but he should not be able to mortage it without her signature. He might be able to get a HELOC (home equity line of credit) but that at least limits the damage he can do, and he would have to be able to get himself to the bank and complete the paperwork.
See if you can hide his driver's license, passport, or any other legal ID. Without them he can't get any more credit and he might not be able to go through the process to recover them.
Is Mom on board with you protecting her? Or is she an enabler? Will she give him back everything if confronted? Can she pay bills, etc. or does someone else need to be responsible? Is she committed to the marriage or does she want out?
This is really messy, but necessary. I wish you luck.
I don't think she will give everything back if confronted, but it will be very hard on her if she is seen as the one masterminding this plot against him, which we fear is how my dad is viewing it. He's been turned against her by his scammer, he clearly has an emotional connection to this person pretending to a be a celebrity he is enamored with. So we are enlisting help from financial advisor, attorney, etc. so that it's not all on her.
We realize that if he doesn't come to his senses and eventually see the truth for what it is, that the marriage may be over. I think mom understands that. It's obviously soul-crushing, but she'd rather end the marriage than watch him blow their life savings and live in a fantasy world.