Why are NH staff so disrespectful?

I know there was a person in a shared room in a nursing home who had both dementia and cancer. She died a terrible death with substandard care. Her roommate who also had dementia would scream and talk all night. And that's the sound she died to. Talk about the horror.

Then there are the people with Alzheimer's who have this obsession with playing with poop, or this compulsion to undress, or who become overly sexual. I think if you're in a dementia unit, its best to have a private room. If you're there because you broke a hip and are old without friends or family who care, it might be nice to have a roommate. If you're a morr social person.

Contact someone in your local State official, take any documentation (pictures,etc), file some kind of law suit if you have to. Can you imagine the other residents there and how their families feel, maybe you could somehow get in contact with other families and form a group complaint (of course not to the bozos that are working for/at that facility). Find another place for your loved one ASAP. good luck

Re: Private pay vs. Medicaid. The facilities won't tell you this, but they do use finances to determine whether or not they will accept you. Not all, but most. You know that's true when the "admissions" application is 6 pages financial and 2 pages everything else. If all they want is a PRI, they're not bent that way. I visited a facility that wanted to make sure my mom was at least "medicaid pending," or they wouldn't accept her. The truth is, in NY the nursing homes are $405 a day or roughly $12,000 a month. I don't know any older person who can maintain that long-term, and facilities want to make sure they will be getting paid. People look down their noses at medicaid and medicaid patients, but guess what? Medicaid pays for each patient $17,000 a month...that's more than the "private pay" rate! So I don't know if it's about shaming people on medicaid, making them feel they don't have a voice so they don't feel they have a right to complain. But facilities know if a patient stays long-term, eventually medicaid will be footing the bill. What they look for to discriminate...I mean, distinguish...is the size of your social security check and pension check because they know once you're on medicaid, they will be receiving those checks, less a $50 a month "personal needs allowance."

I feel sorry for anyone in this tough decision, but I know that so far where my father is they haven't treated him any differently from private pay when he first went in to being covered under Medicaid, and IF I notice a difference, you bet I will be on someone's case immediately. they won't like me and I will be able to tell if anything is looking fishey. its a shame that politics runs things.

To further answer your question, the medical personel who end up working at low-paying nursing homes are "bottom-of-the-classers." No overachievers here. Their ugly behavior falls right in line with someone who couldn't be bothered to work hard in school.

I will add that every nursing home leaves ppl soiled until they're good and ready to change them...or not oo busy. the only difference is how long that is. When you move your mom, move her to the highest patient-to-staff ratio place you can find!

Christine 73: I generally stay away from getting too involved with discussions that get rather heated, but I must respond to your comment. Be careful of absolutes in your statements. It is not true that the medical personnel who "end up" working at low-paying nursing homes are "bottom-of -the-classers." Or that every nursing home leaves people soiled until they are "good and ready to change them." If you really believe this, why would you ever place your loved one there? I chose to work in a nursing home after a long and productive carreer in the US Army medical field. I was an officer. And I graduated fourth in my class. I worked hard in school and I resent your comments.

I chose to work with the older population after I thought I never would want to. I found the work hard, but very gratifying. I loved my patients, I cried everytime one of them died. I loved listening to their stories and I cherished everyone, even those who could not communicate with me. I found the people I worked with to be very caring and capable and overworked. Yes, there were "bad apples" infrequently, but they did not last. This population of people (the nursing home residents) are there because they need care their families can not provide for a variety of reasons, but generally these people are very ill with numerous medical issues. They require a lot of care. Yes, the wages can be low, but that is because of the value we as a society place on the elderly. If nursing homes paid their workers what they deserved and staffed the facilities the way we would all like them to be staffed, only the very wealthy would be able to afford to be there.

So, please do not make blanket statements about everyone in a profession that most would not or could not do. The saddest thing to me working in a nursing home is how many residents never have family or friends visit. That is sad.

I know I am a bit off topic, but I felt I had to reply.

to Mcurran - well said. We visited my father on fathers day, took the grandkids and a man that only nodded when I waved to him every time I go, he smiled. Older people love to see children. And I make it a habit when I go to see my dad to wave to the other ones that might be sitting waiting for a meal, or I say hello. I know that I am visiting after my work and have no idea how many of these elders get visitors during the day, but I hardly see anyone in my time of visit for these people. They don't want to be there, but like you said, some families for various reasons cannot take care of them. Sure these people would rather be at home, their home, but sometimes it just won't work. Everyone should try to smile at the other residents when they are visiting their loved one, wave to them or say hi. even if they don't answer you still probably brightened their day.

They are disrespectful because our society does not place a high value on their work. Their supervisors are often poor role models. Their employers do not offer adequate training. They are often poorly educated and VickiRuff and Christine 73 stated, they often lack other job opportunities.
Our economy has changed so that persons without training beyond high school face very limited employment opportunities. Plus they know they are doing work that few want to do.
Last question: Do you thank them for the help they provide your loved one? Do you occasionally provide intermittent rewards to those who help you loved one? Such as a gift card from a local food or drug or discount store, i.e. $5 or $10.
You need to get into the game and see if your behavior can make a difference.

ADCaregivers: as far as gifts go; a person might want to check with the head people first, some places are not allowed to accept gifts, so unless you do it "under the table" and no one else knows. And as far as education even people with college degrees are having a hard time finding jobs, it also probably even depends on what city location you are in, even though that should not make a difference.

Wolfover451: thanks for your advice. I live in Washington DC and I have difficulty attracting people with college degrees for AD caregiving even though I pay way above the going rate. Any advice?

Is there anyway you can contact the colleges where people were trained in the caregiving field you have, maybe they can give you a list of those that were considered highly qualified. Its a start. And not everyone is suited for caregiving, as we all know. I think some take courses thinking its going to be a walk in the park type job. Caregiving is a hard job, but can be a rewarding job at the same time. good luck

What you need to do is go to the administrator. If the administrator does nothing, tell them that you are going to go to a lawyer and file a lawsuit, if this does not raise some concerns on their part, don't tell them but go to the police and file a complaint every time that you think neglect is happening. Take pictures and document everything. When you see only one person using a lift when the patient in up in the air take pictures so that you can turn this in at a later date when the court case gets started. Also, after you have filed many complaint's against the nursing home with the police station they will have to start an investigation for neglect taking place in that nursing home. Talk to an Ombudsman they are for the elderly and they will turn this into adult protective services, then the state will start an investigation on them.

What you need to do is go to the administrator. If the administrator does nothing, tell them that you are going to go to a lawyer and file a lawsuit, if this does not raise some concerns on their part, don't tell them but go to the police and file a complaint every time that you think neglect is happening. Take pictures and document everything. When you see only one person using a lift when the patient in up in the air take pictures so that you can turn this in at a later date when the court case gets started. Also, after you have filed many complaint's against the nursing home with the police station they will have to start an investigation for neglect taking place in that nursing home. Talk to an Ombudsman they are for the elderly and they will turn this into adult protective services, then the state will start an investigation on them.

I would call the local nursing home ombudsman and complain. This nursing home needs to have a 'drop in inspection'. A local nursing home recently had a rape by a worker and the elderly lady later died.No one had complained about them before.
The worst people that I dealt with were the administrators - they acted like everything that the patients said was due to dementia, and treated me like a criminal every time I mentioned buying new clothing, cosmetics, etc. At the funeral the last one sat and glared at me the whole time. Psychos should not be administrators!

In the Houston Texas area I have experienced the nursing homes are especially horrible. From the top tier to the bottom tier there must not be a person employed who has a caring bone in their bodies. To treat humans with such callousness and across-the-board indifference is reprehensible. In my experience having a loved one in most of these facilities is akin to a death sentence!

Not all nursing homes are like the one you described. The one my spouse was in has a great staff. Everyone from the Administrator, Social Worker, Nurses and CNAs were very helpful and listened to my concerns. I found that visiting often, getting to know the people who care for your family member, thanking them for their hard work and actually taking part in my loved one's care, by letting them know certain things about him, which helped them understand him better, all helped. Though my loved one has passed on, I keep in touch with the many wonderful workers from the nursing home and even get together with them, as we have forged strong bonds through caring for him. So, I would suggest you find a facility that will work with you and listen to you, because they are out there. Good luck.

NeverAgain50, I totally agree with you. Living in the Houston, Texas, area also, I had firsthand experience as I daily visited with my father in a nursing home. To add insult to injury, I thought it would be better than the one where he was in Pennsylvania. But no. I was so angry about what went on in the two places that after his death I wrote about the travesty in Before the Door Closes: A Daughter's Journey with Her Alcoholic Father. A year or so after it was published, I mustered the courage to read Death Without Dignity by Steven Long, which reports the 1985 Texas City, Texas, trial regarding nursing home abuse. Will there ever be an end to it? The callousness and indifference from top to bottom still breaks my heart. (I did find exceptions, but they were few and were not on duty 24/7.)

My mother is in a great NH, in IL. I did take her out of one, though, and I did not mince words, on why.

Sounds like you are so busy observing and critiquing the staff that u surely must not have much quality time with your loved one. You say the staff hates changing the residents... I am assuming u mean cleaning up the residents urine and feces... I can assure u it isn't their favorite part of the job, but guess what, if they hated it; they wouldn't do it; AT ALL. Do u ever offer to assist with the cleaning up of your loved one. That would change the attitude of the staff towards you and your loved one much quicker than the approach you have chosen, such as; always making complaints and challenging procedures.... Try being part of the solution and not part of the problem and I promise you, you will notice a difference in the attitudes of the staff.

If they 'hated it and didn't do it' - they would be out of a job.
Wow - what a sarcastic post.

Yet some of it is true... If you help your loved one you are messaging that you want to help and it makes people want to help you... Also that you are involved and will notice any signs of neglect.
It's a tough job, paid poorly and if you go in there demanding your dues it will not endear you to The people looking after your loved one believe me you want them on your side.

Yes, these CNAs aren't paid much. Maybe $10. And I agree, they can have up to 30patients depending the facility. But...the resident is paying for the care. A family member should not have to do anything. The facility may not want you to because of insurance purposes. My husband was always helping my Mom from the wheelchair to the bed. The nurse told him they rather he didn't do it.

We all want everything to be perfect for our loved ones. We forget that the help in these places have a great turnover. The ones that stay are worth their weight in GOLD. Many of us do this at home on a 24/7 schedule and I totally respect what they do now more than ever. I know how hard it is. I cannot imagine doing this as a career. I would charge $120.00 an hour..PERIOD Take it or leave it. But, for my Partner, I will do anything. I love my Partner or I would not be here. I am looking for a cleaning person as I just cannot do it all. I thought I was on top of it, but one or two days of any problems and I am so far behind that my house looks like I don't know how to keep a house clean. The only thing I can give my attention to is the bathroom and the bedroom and bed. The rest is ht and miss. Between caring for my love and cooking, washing clothes and maintaining the house, I am more than full time. I sure wish it did not cost so much to go to a IL facility. Even so, I would miss him SO much. I quit my well paid job to do this. I would be working just to keep him AWAY from me? No! I had to. As much as it would cost us for him to be in a facility, my working income plus our savings would go for his care. So, job gone and I am his full time care giver. No one loves him like I do and that is how he is treated. If he was in a facility, I would have to understand he is just one in maybe 30 people each staff person is responsible for. If they missed him or messed up, I would not even know it.

to oregongirl: I don't want to be nosey but (not only you) mentioned that you quit your full time job to care for your loved one, how do you manage for money? If you quit a job, most places will not allow you to draw unemployment, so where do the funds come from to pay for bills, food, etc? I am not trying to imply being sarcastic or anything of the sort, but how do people quit their jobs and care for loved ones in their home with no money coming in?

FYI, I just read an article dated July 2, 2015, that Pennsylvania's Attorney General has filed a suit against Golden Living, the nation's third largest nursing chain, "alleging residents were left 'thirsty, hungry, dirty and unkempt' and denied 'their most basic needs.'"

You know, this is exactly why everyone who is in a nursing home needs someone on the outside... to do their bidding for them. Call the state and let them know what you are seeing and experiencing, because some of what you mentioned is neglect and abuse. Letting them sit in their own waste for hours... Pathetic!

I was with my father at least once every day. I chose to be there consistently at suppertime so that I could feed him when he needed it. Sometimes I popped in unexpectedly. I can't go into all the details; I tell the worst of it in my book. Suffice it to say now that often when I came in the evening, his bedding consisted of dried urine and fecal matter. At first I quietly got the linen myself and changed everything. Then I wrote grievances because I was told they would be taken very seriously. When I followed up with the social worker, her explanation was that they were short-staffed. On occasions when I came to the NH out of my normal time, I would find my father lying in urine-drenched clothes. This is making me so angry all over again. I thought I had put this behind me after I published our story about NH neglect and abuse.

Oh Judy, I am so sorry you are having to face this with the NH. I would be heartbroken. Get in touch with the State or the Ombusmen, (spelling).... The State will step in I am sure. No one should have to die like this. How would those people in the NH feel about their parent being treated this way? Or themselves someday? I will keep you and your father in my prayers and thoughts. I talk to God all day long.