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My Mom who has dementia relied on her neighbors for 2 years because we were estranged. I came back into the picture after being called by Adult Protective services. The case was closed. I have POA. I am over there daily and have been involved for 9 months.

So, my Mom goes to breakfast with this couple every Tuesday. They took her out of town for a day without notifying me. I asked them not to do that again as I had thought she had wandered off. I would have called the police if the neighbor hadn't answered her cell when I called her looking for Mom
I find out today trying to use my Mom's debit card for her weekly shopping trip that the pin number has been changed. She doesn't drive due to getting lost, so someone took her to the bank.
Talking to the neighbor, he took her to the bank on Tuesday, she couldn't remember her pin number and created a new one which she has forgotten . They wouldn't let her withdraw money because her drivers license was expired. I knew that and didn't have it renewed.
So, he took her to MVD and she applied for a State ID.
I told him today that he's overstepping his boundaries and he needs to stop. He was very confrontational. He said he would but what's his agenda?
My Mom was very upset at me as she has a fixation with him. I 🤔 nk she thinks that he's her boyfriend.
Has anyone experienced people overstepping boundaries before? I'm very concerned!!

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Very, you also need to bear in mind that this script might very well have been flipped the other way.

How would you have felt if these 2 neighbors reported to APS: "We have an elderly vulnerable neighbor we have been helping out for years, whose estranged daughter has just shown up after 2 years of no contact, and is now questioning and controlling our neighbor's finances and also trying to isolate her from us. She has taken over all of her mom's bank accounts, and we're worried this daughter has an agenda"? Because we have also seen this scenario play out here on the forum as well.

You say you haven't accused the neighbors of stealing money, yet you throw around words like "agenda" and "suspicious". You say you have contacted the police about the neighbors. People don't do that unless they feel they/loved ones have been the victim of a crime.

You say you spoke to this neighbor about the feeling you have that he oversteps his boundaries, and while he was angry, he agreed to back off. You say you spoke to the police, who have informed you that there is no criminality here, at least as far as the law sees it. There doesn't seem to be much left for you to do here other than to move forward.

You asked us if any of us have experienced people overstepping boundaries, but when you get an honest opinion that many of us here don't feel that's the case in this instance, you get angry.

I'm sure you had good reason to be estranged from your mother. I think you should go with that first instinct and find someone else to do her hands on care, for your own well-being.
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Maybe if you are going to make a comment you should read the whole thread. People keep assuming things when I've clarified repeatedly. I don't understand how that's helpful. It's frustrating and not helpful! I guess I expected more from this online forum. Can anyone tell me how to erase this whole thread. I don't think it will be helpful for anyone. WOW!
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Slartibartfast Feb 28, 2025
Sometimes the replies that seem the meanest here are the ones that make the most sense when I go back and re-read later. And sometimes they’re just people spouting off commands and opinions that don’t have much to do with you or your situation. 

When you are sure you don’t want to be the one to attempt to stabilize and deal with your mom and her problems make sure you formally rescind your POA and let APS know you did it. Then you can be legally off the hook and she is on their radar.
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Alvadeer, Really! The $20,000 is additional to ALL of her living expenses plus spending money for 2 years. Geeze! You've been such a negative person. Going after me from my first post!!!!! Try to be positive. It's a lot more helpful!
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AlvaDeer Feb 28, 2025
Well, I am sorry to hear that, Very.
I think perhaps this isn't the Forum for you. You are unhappy with me, but it seems you have many problems with others as well.
As you know, with all social media, it's a bit like Forrest Gump's proverbial box of chocolates. You never know what you are going to get.

As you can imagine, telling us that an entire family is estranged from your Mom, who has been watched over two years by a caring neighbor--then telling us that Mom may or may not suffer from dementia? We are at a bit of a loss.

Wish you good luck with all of this.

On to your next question as to how to erase your entire thread?
What I have seen work in the past is this:
1. Answer this post with "Dear Admins: I am self reporting to ask that you please erase this thread. "
2. Post that.
3. Then report your own post by pressing the button on the right.
No guarantees, but then do understand that your question will, like all the others here without new responses, just move on down to pages 2, 3, 4, 5 and to oblivion where it won't ever be seen again really.

Again best out to you. I hope you will be able to speak with your mother about all of this. SHE is the best one to decide what will work best for her and her money while she still has competence. You two can work things out, I would bet.
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Verysad, you are assuming that the neighbors are taking advantage and money, for all you know she has it stashed around the house or threw it in the garbage. People with dementia CAN NOT be trusted to give accurate information, PERIOD!
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Verysad98 Feb 28, 2025
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If there is $20,000 missing you have every right since you are joint on the accounts to pull up the statements. Do you have online banking. Start one now if you do not, your mother will not know since this will only apply to your unique User ID. Pull up as many months as you can and look at the checks made. When where the withdrawals or checks dated and do some sleuthing. You will need this information anyways if she needs Medicaid long term care.

I should have done this years ago with my uncle. Then I could have prevented him from gifting over $20,000 to a "loving" scavenger.
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Verysad98 Feb 28, 2025
I did do online banking when I reentered her life. I could only go back 2 years from last June. $20,000 ATM withdrawals and possibly more if I go back further. Gone! Someone was taking her to the bank as she wasn't driving. It is what it is!

Now where is the money from this month, $400???? I don't think that 2 breakfasts cost $400. Grocery shopping is on a debit card.

Non of the money is stashed in her home. My Daughter and I cleaned the house from top to bottom and went through everything even her storage room. UGH!

How do I close my thread????? I'm done.
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Mom needs to be evaluated by a Neutologist. Labs done to make sure she is not lacking in some vitamin or mineral. Because she can answer a few questions does not mean Dementia is not present.

Unless your POA is immediate you need a formal diagnosis to place Mom. If she hit you, you should have called the police and have her taken to ER for a evaluation. If found she is 24/7 care, then you have her placed from the Hospital. You can do this too if she goes to the hospital for other reasons.

You need to report the loss of 20k. If Mom needs Medicaid within the next 5yrs, not knowing where that 20k went will effect her trying to get care. It will be considered a gift and there will beva penalty period.
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Verysad98 Feb 28, 2025
I tried to file a police report about the $20,000 and since she was the one doing the ATM withdrawals, I was told that nothing could be done. She had the ability at that time to remember her pin number.

From the statements I've seen here, it looks like it's easy to get medical help when the person refuses and place a person into a senior living place with a POA. That has not been my experience. In the town I live in.

I talked to a friend about calling the police when she became physically violent with me. She advised against it as she would be arrested and held on a 72 hour psych hold on another county as we do not have a facility here. I just couldn't do it!
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So, after much thinking about my Mom's situation and my hands being tied because of legalities (I've talked to a Elder Lawyer several times.,,) I'm going to step back. I am with my Mom around 25-30 hours a week. Her true personality shines through and it's not the dementia. She has always been a angry and volatile person hence all of her family has stayed away from her for years. I can never do enough! Always critical! That's how she's always been. The physical violence recently on her part is too much for me! It's too much! ( 9 months alone) At 67 years old, I have my own health issues and I'm tired. I will never put my children through this. It's horrible for everyone, especially my Mother.

I resumed her mail today so she can get her ID. As she refuses me hiring in home help, getting diagnosed or thinking about touring a few senior places here ....I will be contacting APS to see if they will go out again and evaluate her and hopefully get her some help.

Maybe I'm not equipped to deal with her memory loss, I feel like I did the best I could. That's why I joined this group to see what I could do better and for information as this is my first rodeo. Thanks for the replies here even the brutal, mean ones.
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Slartibartfast Feb 28, 2025
Sometimes the replies that seem the meanest are the ones that make the most sense when I go back and re-read later. And sometimes they’re just people spouting off commands and opinions that don’t have much to do with you or your situation.

When you are sure you don’t want to be the one to attempt to stabilize and deal with your mom and her problems make sure you formally rescind your POA and let APS know you did it. Then you can be legally off the hook and she is on their radar.
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You are very Lucky Your Mom Has a great neighbor who cared for her .
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Verysad98 Feb 28, 2025
Really? Taking financial advantage of a elderly person who has memory loss is not caring for someone.
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No, he's not the one over-stepping the boundaries. You are the one who is a poor POA. During the years you were estranged from your mother the neighbors were the ones stepping up and doing for her and probably for free. You weren't doing anything.

Shouldn't it have been one of your resposibilities to make sure your mother had current ID? Or to make sure her banking is in order and she can't keep changing and forgetting PIN numbers? Your neighbor had to take her to DMV, straighten everything out, and sit there for many hours with what I am sure was a confused, demented, fussy, elder. You didn't have to do that and you told off the neighbor who did do it for her. Unbelievable.

Do you understand that your mother has dementia and cannot live an unsupervised life anymore? While you're telling off neighbors and nit-picking about over-stepping their boundaries, do remember that they are the ones doing YOUR job. You are the POA and this is your mother. Does no one else see how f'ed up this is? The mother has dementia and is still on her own. Her POA/daughter is nit-picking about neighbors over-stepping boundaries. Someone has to help the demented elder.

Get your mother some live-in help or put her in assisted living. Like I said, she can't live an unsupevised life anymore.
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Verysad98 Feb 28, 2025
APS has been involved twice with my Mom and they closed the cases. She was lucid enough to answer a few questions. Her house and herself was clean. Their goal is to keep people in their homes as long as possible as told to me by. Social worker. She ran off in home care givers. According to my Elder Lawyer, as long as there's any lucidity, I can not force her into a facility. If she is hospitalized, then I can ask for testing, ect.....

So what do you suggest????
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As I see it, you have POA and it’s time to use it. I had it for my dad, never actually showed it or really used it but made decisions as needed. While my dad was hospitalized, I made the change to have all his mail forwarded to my home, changed all his bills to online delivery to my email, stopped paper statements on his banking, changing to online delivery to my email, and got a debit card for myself on his checking account. The key to this was I was already on his accounts. Dad never had a debit card, but wrote copious checks, so I took the checks too. He didn’t have dementia, but was clearly being taken advantage of, as so many elders are, mainly by a few crappy relatives and endless predatory charities. When I went to the bank to enact this, they knew my dad well at his local branch, I was thanked for doing this. My siblings also told me it was long overdue (even the one taking money from dad, ironic that one) When dad came home and noticed no mail, I expected a hellfire chewing out. I immediately confessed and showed him a 3 ring binder with pages for each month and info on each bill, when it was due, when it was paid, and told him his money was being preserved for his care and the charities were being cut off. I told him I loved him and wanted to take one more thing off his plate to worry about. Very surprising to me, he loved the binder and reacted well. He even bragged to others that I was handling things well, he often reviewed the bills being paid and I answered any questions he had. I used the debit card to give him limited cash at a time. Sounds like your mother needs to have her full access to money removed as she’s not making sound decisions. I had good luck with acting and not asking permission. Sometimes that’s what it takes
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After thinking about the situation with the neighbor, I put a hold on my Mom's mail (legal with my POA) so I can get her new State ID that the neighbor suggested to her and helped her obtain.

She needs her ID to take out money from her account. I will hold on to it till it's needed.

I gave her $400 on the 7th of this month and it's already gone????? Groceries are paid for with debit card. Suspicious!!!!

Mom is upset with me because I approached the neighbor (her pretend boyfriend, in her mind) about the bank visit and MVD visit.

She wouldn't let me in her house yesterday evening. As if it wasn't hard enough dealing with dementia, now to have someone interfer who I don't think has her best interest at heart is very difficult.
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AlvaDeer Feb 28, 2025
At this point you need to call APS. You have now solid evidence that someone is taking your mother's money given these withdrawals. You need to have a conservatorship to manage her account, and executive function ability to pay her bills; she needs protection from someone she sees as a romantic contact. APS can help you. Do call them. Hope you'll update us.

Mom now needs evaluation. APS can help you arrange this with her doctor. I want you to stress that money is being taken from her and you have proof of this, and want them to interview her.

Do understand fully that if they judge her competent she can give her money to whomever she likes, whether bad decision making of not. Bad monetary choices are made in the USA every single day by people 18, by people 32, by people 51--it is THEIR CHOICE. They are the ones who pay the consequences. IF they are competent, and for her protection now that needs evaluation.
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Verysad, I think part of the postings about moms neighbors helping is that it was during the time you were estranged. My advice, let it go. You weren't there , for whatever reason, doesn't matter, it's in the past, let it go.

It doesn't matter, they were there when nobody else was dealing with an angry violent woman that they had no obligation to.

You did not give the neighbors ages, so I will say; old people that are neighbors helping neighbors are ferocious in defending each other's rights. Nobody wants to give up their autonomy and they are right, they should be ferocious about it.
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Verysad, being lucid only at times isn't enough to say your mum has competency. It really does depend how your mum is at the time of her being assessed, unfortunately.

I think you need to be creative to get your mum to think it's her idea to move into AL with a memory care unit on site. That would be difficult if she thinks the neighbour is her boyfriend.
I wonder if you could take her to a nice place that has a restaurant on site and activities going on, perhaps the social aspect would encourage her. You could say how lovely it would be for her friends to visit her there for lunch and bingo etc.

Similarly, get her to think that a restricted bank account with a low limit card is a new type of account that people are now getting to avoid certain charges/scams (whatever would work with your mum). But, be wary of actually having access yourself because of past issues between you and your mum. Speak with the bank about the necessity of protecting your mum and find out how they can help you.

APS called you in, so they did think your mum was vulnerable. Perhaps you could ask their advice.

If you can't help your mum and this proves too much of a headache, with you clashing too much, you may need to step away.
It's not your fault that your mum has been irresponsible with her money, and you will need to accept it if you can't prevent that happening again.
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Alvadeer, I am POA and on all of her bank accounts.
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How do I get Mom diagnosed? According to a Elder lawyer, as long as she is lucid (at times), and functioning, there's nothing I can do until a fall or hospitalation.

According to the APS person that called me, Mom's house was clean, she had food, and was able to
answer a few questions. So the case was closed.

There is definitely memory loss. She asked me to help her with her finances. She depends on me to use her ATM card when we go shopping and when she wants cash. And I've put everything on auto pay and write only 2 checks per month.

So, according to a few responses, I should just let her get rides to the bank and withdraw cash? After $20,000 is missing??? I shouldn't be concerned?

I don't know what else to do 😔
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😔
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AlvaDeer Feb 27, 2025
Your attorney is correct. As long as she is lucid she gets to make her own decisions. If you can PROVE fraud you could go to court for conservatorship; not going to happen without proof as you were estranged and neighbors were caring for her and driving her to appointments and shopping and were her resource. THEY in fact could make it look like YOU are swooping in against her wishes.

IF your mother will agree to making you her POA and signee on all her accounts then the two of you can go in and do that tomorrow with your POA papers. She will tell the bank she wants you to handle being signee. THIS MEANS you have to keep meticulous records of every penny into and out of accounts.

If mother will not agree to assessment, then there will be no assessment until she ends up in hospital for some other reason and you request it as her POA. THEN you would have letters.

Mother can agree to ask SS to make you her Representative Payee as well; you can make an appointment with SS.

But as you said, this is in your mother's hands. Either she has dementia and cannot be alone or do executive functions or she does NOT and she can do as she likes with her own money.

You can use your POA to ATTEMPT to close down her credit if you wish. It make work and it may not without her permission.

This doesn't have a really good answer. So many things don't.
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We have a problem here.
Your mother made you POA. That means she is COMPETENT under the law. It means also that you cannot manage when she leaves her home, with whom or where. Does she have a phone that she is able to use? Why are you not calling HER to find out where she's at. Why is she alone if she is incompetent and unsafe.

I am just saying here that I cannot tell if you have an incompetent and unsafe mom alone here and prey to WOLVES or if you have a woman forgetful, but competent, and going about her daily life with a neighbor who is around to help her now for several years?

This is a serious problem because you cannot have it both way.
Either mom is incompetent and in care (either your care or placement)
OR
Mom is competent and you can ASK her whatever you like in terms of letting you know where she goes and when she takes out money, but you cannot dictate it to a competent person.

Good luck. Sounds like a real diagnosis should be in the works now with her doctor and a neuro-psyc consult. If that happens and you need to set up the accounts with you as the only signee then that's a good safeguard.
Best wishes.
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While I understand that the neighbors were helpful to Mom during the 2 years when I wasn't in the picture as Mom pushed the whole family away from her, I feel like there's some agenda going on with the neighbors.

As $20,000 is missing from her checking account (from the 2 years that I wasn't in the picture) through ATM withdrawals, I am concerned. I did try to file a police report but as she was the one withdrawing money, there was nothing that could be done.

A Home Depot card was also used 2 months ago and the neighbors told me that they had taken her there. $220 was spent and Mom said she purchased their items. That card has been cancelled.

There a difference between caring for someone and explotu
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Yes, similar situation with a relative. This relative, age 79, almost certainly has dementia. As soon as she found the male that she's now admiring, he became her best friend. He has a girlfriend and is probably about 20 years younger than she is. She shoved her longtime friends and family members away after years of insulting them. She moved into his neighborhood. They went on trips that she almost certainly paid for. Some are still concerned about her, but phone calls to the man produce no information and no one we know has her present phone number. He says she's "fine," which she hasn't been for many years. This whole scenario is still in progress and about to blow up any day now, so I can sympathize.

Your mom's friend's agenda may be to help her, or he and his wife may be setting her up for fraud. Since you have POA and she has dementia, perhaps consult the local police and take out a restraining order against this couple, but your mom will get hopping mad (not that this should matter, because you're supposed to protect her whether she's mad or not). And I don't think a restraining order would keep them away from her. It would also be a wise move to open a new account at a different bank for mom, with access only for you. Then you give her a cash allowance. She shouldn't have a debit or any other kind of card now, due to her dementia.

She needs to be in assisted living, most likely memory care. That would solve a lot of these problems you're having. With the present situation, there's no way you're going to keep her safe from predators - or herself.
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CaringinVA Feb 28, 2025
Well said, Fawnby💯
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Mom relied on these neighbors for 2 years while you were not in the picture, and she still does, yet now they're "overstepping their boundaries"? Seems to me you should be thankful these folks are there for mom and have been all along. Your mother should not be living alone anymore and needs 24/7 supervision and help now as her dementia has progressed to a point where she's unsafe being alone.

It seems that thanks are in order for moms neighbors as I cannot imagine they have an "agenda" other than helping an old demented woman out with what she needs. Unless mom has money missing from her bank account, it's out of line to think they're up to no good.
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Slartibartfast Feb 27, 2025
Well a case was opened with APS while under the “care” of the neighbors, during what may have been a well deserved estrangement. Hard to know who should be grateful for what without more information.
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