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She is a certifird nurse and took my stepdad out of assisted living to a barber and had him sign a living will change with a notary presemt. Isn't this illegal? Can she lose her license due to influencing a man with dementia?
Depending on how far along someone’s dementia is and their level of understanding of what the document states , they can still sign legal documents in the earlier stages .
Usually a lawyer will speak to the elder first and decide if they think the elder understands what the changes would mean , and the lawyer would ask the elder what their wishes are before even drawing up the new document .
I doubt your sister in law was able to get this document drawn up without first taking step dad to speak with the lawyer. So I’m going to assume that was already done and then the document was then ready to be signed at some point a few weeks later and she had him do that with a notary .
Are you upset because you believe Dad would want all medical interventions? It is possible that with some more information and understanding of his condition that he could decide not to prolong his life . Or is the issue that you are having a problem with the changes in the living will ?
I get that it would feel very underhand if you had not discussed this issue with family beforehand.
Has your Step-Father ever discussed his wishes or values surrounding his future health? With you? With Brother & SIL?
Had you discussed these types of issues, his quality of life, with your Brother & SIL before? Did you agree or differ?
Leaving aside your own views for a mo, how would you say your Step-Father's life-held values would shape that document? Has he always visited the Doctor? Agreed to try ever pill, potion & cure? Did he do that with his own parents? Or has he been more of a person to say, It was their time to go or Mother Nature will decide..
Trying to prolong the life of an elder suffering from dementia should be a crime. Such cruelty is unspeakable. God bless your sister who has the common decency and good sense to do the right thing for dad. You should thank her instead of wanting her to lose her nursing license! Go hang around a Memory Care Assisted Living facility sometime and watch the anguish these poor elders have to live with. I prayed daily for God to take my mother but He didn't see fit to until she was over 95. She suffered tremendously as a result.
If you've never watched anyone die from dementia (including the time running up to the actual death), please research what's involved. It's horrific. To prolong this agony should be a crime.
Your SIL knows the drill. She is doing him a favor.
Is she POA? Are she and her hubby the caregivers? Because if Dad is incompetent then she is in charge in ANY case and as the "nurse" in the family will likely be advised and listened to when you Dad doesn't wish to have interventions.
Has your father always felt this way? I happen to be in total agreement with her, so there's that, but do know also that someone with Alzheimer's and Dementia can sign a living will if he understands what he is signing at all.
Ok. I will start by saying any changes he has made would not be legal and you could contact an attorney. Who is his POA? This is the person that would be most involved with changes. If his previous document indicated that he wanted full life saving care. By that I mean CPR, intubation, a ventilator, feeding tube and IV'S. I think she actually is acting in his best interest. As a person with dementia will not do well with "tubes" and try to pull them out. Also as a person enters the dying phase it does more harm than good to give IV'S and food. The body does not process food or fluid. A person also does not feel hunger or thirst like you or I do. So while you are right she should not have had him sign any legal document. What was changed should have been changed when he was diagnosed with dementia.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
Usually a lawyer will speak to the elder first and decide if they think the elder understands what the changes would mean , and the lawyer would ask the elder what their wishes are before even drawing up the new document .
I doubt your sister in law was able to get this document drawn up without first taking step dad to speak with the lawyer. So I’m going to assume that was already done and then the document was then ready to be signed at some point a few weeks later and she had him do that with a notary .
Are you upset because you believe Dad would want all medical interventions? It is possible that with some more information and understanding of his condition that he could decide not to prolong his life . Or is the issue that you are having a problem with the changes in the living will ?
Has your Step-Father ever discussed his wishes or values surrounding his future health?
With you? With Brother & SIL?
Had you discussed these types of issues, his quality of life, with your Brother & SIL before? Did you agree or differ?
Leaving aside your own views for a mo, how would you say your Step-Father's life-held values would shape that document? Has he always visited the Doctor? Agreed to try ever pill, potion & cure? Did he do that with his own parents? Or has he been more of a person to say, It was their time to go or Mother Nature will decide..
Your SIL knows the drill. She is doing him a favor.
Because if Dad is incompetent then she is in charge in ANY case and as the "nurse" in the family will likely be advised and listened to when you Dad doesn't wish to have interventions.
Has your father always felt this way?
I happen to be in total agreement with her, so there's that, but do know also that someone with Alzheimer's and Dementia can sign a living will if he understands what he is signing at all.
Who is his POA? This is the person that would be most involved with changes.
If his previous document indicated that he wanted full life saving care. By that I mean CPR, intubation, a ventilator, feeding tube and IV'S. I think she actually is acting in his best interest. As a person with dementia will not do well with "tubes" and try to pull them out. Also as a person enters the dying phase it does more harm than good to give IV'S and food. The body does not process food or fluid. A person also does not feel hunger or thirst like you or I do.
So while you are right she should not have had him sign any legal document. What was changed should have been changed when he was diagnosed with dementia.