My mother is being difficult about her upcoming surgery. Any suggestions?

Barb Brooklyn,

Yes, and I actually proposed the idea to the oldest sister for me (the youngest) and the middle sister to go knock on the door of the 2nd oldest one (the never show who lives right in town), once those two are in town again. Oldest sis said she would be down for that, lol. I see the one who lives in town more as hiding than anything. She can at least explain herself face to face!  I also see my behavior as more of changing perspectives.

Buzzy Bee,

That did help, because you can relate to not being able to say it face to face. I don't have nearly as much as a problem with just anyone; but for some reason family is too often the ones who can push our buttons. Therefore, it's more of a process with certain issues concerning them.

Hi, CeeCee, I'm glad that your family is stepping up.

Remember that in the end, the only person whose behavior you can change is yours.

I am so glad you are seeing a light at the end of the tunnel. It is nice to be able to say exactly what you need to here. Some things you cannot say to people 'face to face' I wish you great luck with your studies. Hugs for the future. Sorry I could not help much with advice.

Thanks Surprise, I like that and just may look into it. Could possibly help with juggling the heavy school workload too. But it's a city college; sounds like your children go to a private one where they pay a higher tuition and  receive those type of services. But I may see what's available.

The good news is that my oldest and middle sister are both stepping it up. To some folks like Jeanne I agree to and say thank you very much; sometimes a person needs to see things objectively to help them wade through life's tougher issues, without all the drama. So, Sue or whomever else they feel this is directed to thank you but you can reply on other threads because I'm not here for that.

SueC at first I appreciated the apology, but I must ask you who asked you to keep up on all the posts in this thread? It seems to me you feel you are the one needed, so are you telling me that from experience? Not being facetious, honestly asking. 

I'd like to point out that many colleges allow free talk therapy appointments with their mental health counselors. I've told my kids that they should take advantage of it while they are enrolled in classes so they can go in and get new strategies to handle crazy old women like their mom (me!). They snicker, go, and later thank me for pushing them into it.

If you think of it as taking lessons in how to handle difficult people, you may be less disappointed in the counselor.

Ceecee,
Please forgive my errors.

I did not mean to be condescending. I used Sweetie (since I did not know that Ceecee was your name), as a term of endearment. It could have been honey or dear or anything that seemed caring. These days one has to be SO careful with ANY words they use for fear of being offensive.

It has been tedious reading through the 58 posts to keep up on this thread. I obviously missed the post that explained your screen name was your real name. If I reply in the future, I will use your given name.

The content of my post still stands.

SueC,

I stated in a prior post that the CeeCee is me. Explained that before but it's cool because we can't read everything; but please leave out the sweetie, sweetie, as the tone sounds condescending.

Ceeceeneedsme,

Sweetie, your screen name says it all.
You need to be needed.

That's why you're willing to leave school, rush to all the emergencies and are "planning ahead" because you want to be available (hoping to be needed).

There are therapists that can help you with this BUT you have to be willing to see yourself for who you are. Denial is a strong emotion.

Until then, you'll still be "putting out fires " until you decide to change.

I seem emotionally emeshed with her? Try drained. That's what narcissists do, but I'm busy being unmeshed from her. She's the one who's been too meshed; I never could stand when a person did that to me. Would unload friends, including my ex and his child because I couldn't breathe with them after awhile. My family's been more tricky being they're family, but I thought I was doing the right thing being there for them since they're blood. Now I almost feel like I've been hustled. I once tried counseling a long time ago. The two I checked out were both a bit disappointing and I just gave up. I was hoping to get things off my chest. My mother even said she'd attend, which surprised me at the time, but now I see how much she entangles herself with me. I really hate that part about her; even worse, she tries to front like that's not what's happening. Maybe someone else doesn't see it--she'll put on her "social face"--but I've seen it for so long but just kept doing my thing, albeit I admit I let it slow me down in some ways. You don't really realize it until you look back on it. Anyway, I don't feel like talking anymore; this site will do for now. What I really would like is to put physical distance between us (I live only 15 minutes away by car). Sometimes I think I should've treated her like those other folks I needed to say good-bye to in my life.

Ceecee, it is OK to decide on postponing school or going to plan B for your own reasons. Really. It doesn't have to be related to your mother or your sisters or caregiving. You can decide that the program is not what you expected and you need some time to reconsider how to proceed. And you don't have to justify your reason to anybody.

Maybe you can use some of the time that would have been spent on school to get some counselling. You seem very emotionally enmeshed with your mother, and maybe some therapy would help you establish a healthier relationship.

Hi Barb,

I hear you, but when it comes to school I have to look ahead due to all of the obligations I know are coming. It's a very heavy load that comes with its deadlines for withdrawal; withdrawal with a 100% refund is as close as this Friday, then it only gets less to nothing at all. I also have a student loan where I can't take less than two classes, so I can't even opt for just one, etc. etc. I was exhausted with keeping up the last year with just work and school alone, so I need to pull out in a timely manner if I even think it can become even crazier. My sanity and physical health comes before anything. I can always do plan "B", which are self-study for certifications at my own pace. I could even apply that instead of taking two of the courses, so I wouldn't really miss out. Frankly, that'd be better given that the school misrepresented themselves when I first started; they told me it'd take an x amount of time, when it's waaaay more than that, if you want decent grades. And I have all A's right now, so that is the only reason I am even thinking about returning. But like I said, there's always plan "B"; I've been pissed at times with them too, for the misrepresentation part. My countdown has already began as to which way I'll play this, at least this semester. Even if I just need to take a breather from this crazy world for a minute and keep studying on my own.

Your mom is having hip replacement surgery. She's going to rehab. She has no one else living at home with her.

Don't volunteer to mess up your life for a "maybe something might be needed".

If I were you, I'd go to the surgery appointment with mom and ask hard questions of the doc, letting her/him know that mom lives alone and that's what needs to be planned for here.

She shouldn't be released before she is able to be independent at home. If she's not, she needs home health care.

I hear you, Jeanne. My mind is active when it comes to the what ifs. I found this habit to be because of my somewhat unsecured upbringing. I was tired of messiness ensuing from not planning ahead and now I'm always trying to stay a step ahead. On a good note, I called my middle sister tonight. She lives out of town; the one who gave me the FMLA information. She was saying she would be here if I needed and that to not feel alone. But in the same breath, she was giving me FMLA information for me to use. So I called her tonight to tell her we need to be on the same page about our mother's surgery next month. She was saying sure she would be here but she wouldn't get paid if she used her FMLA, she could just be on leave, because of the state she's in doesn't pay the employees. While in my state, I can leave and get paid. But I told her you offered and I have been the one who's mostly been here for both mother and grandmother, and I am not willing to go on FMLA leave at this point in time. That I liked the unit I work in on my job and I don't want the possibility of it changing, because I couldn't stand doing that job without where I am currently placed. She began saying how I would be guaranteed the same job, to read the fine print etc. etc., but before I could say more like I may receive the same title, but not necessarily the same unit I am working in, she said but she would be there, no problem. So I said okay. And that anyway she would be a backup to our mother's male friend, who is also down south like her, but to be ready because Ma said she only planned to have him stay for a week. She is dreaming that she thinks it's only going to take that short amount of time, but I told my mother that it will take longer than that, especially at her age. She said then she would have him stay longer. I said cool, but I want my sister to be ready just in case because she has known to get ornery and might tell him to go home hoping I will end up stepping in or something. And then my oldest sister called last night and I'm sure she took my grandmother out for lunch today like she said she was going to do. While she also lives out of town, I thank God for her because she's not that far like the middle sister. And she said she's willing to help too. Praying that all goes well so I can just be left alone a lot more often.

I didn't say you shouldn't respond. If Mom has an emergency and you know about it, you'll certainly call 911 or the appropriate emergency service. This is same as you would do if you were in another state and she called you, or if you lived next door. And what anybody else would do if they knew about the emergency and you were recovering from being hit by a bus. And you can certainly decide on a case-by-case basis whether you want to help out in a true emergency. Not every call from your mother is an emergency. Arranging your life on the expectation that you'll have to handle lots of emergencies doesn't sound reasonable to me.

I got a call from my mom's alert system, saying she had fallen, she said she couldn't get up, but was not bleeding or otherwise injured. I went immediately, found the building maintenance guy, he unlocked her door then had to get a bolt cutter to open the chain, then in we went. Because she didn't think she could move even with my help, I called 911 and went with her to the emergency room. I am definitely NOT opposed to responding to emergencies! If I couldn't have I would have called 911 and then also tried to get a hold of the building guy with a key. And if I'd been out of town, or taking a class, or teaching a class, or recovering from a bus accident, the alert system would have called the next person on the list or 911.

You seem to be trying to plan your life around all the what-ifs. What if she refuses rehab, what if her boyfriend leaves early, what if she goes outside and it's icy? And all the what-ifs seem to be the worst case scenario. Thinking ahead is good. Catastrophying the future is not really productive or healthy.

CeeCee, I"m going back to "what if you got run over by a bus?".

What if you didn't live nearby? What if you got killed or injured?

A couple of years ago, an elderly friend of mine fell in her apartment and lay on her apartment floor for three days. A neighbor saw her newspapers piling up and insisted the doorman get the police. When they broke her door down, of course EMS was there. She said "Can't we just take a cab to (fill in the name of her favorite hospital?".

The answer was NO she was going to the local trauma hospital. She was a widow with stepchildren who live far away and who were mostly estranged. A couple of folks from her community stepped up and visited her in the hospital; we insisted that she go to rehab. She had an eldercare attorney on retainer, left over from her husband's final illness. She was helped to set up a special needs trust for a disabled grandson which allowed her to qualify for Medicaid. She finished rehab; someone from the community stayed over the first night she was home to make sure that the replacement aide showed up in the AM.

In short, nothing bad happened to her. People stepped in to help her because there WAS no one else. If we hand't been there, then social services would have stepped up.

What we're saying is, YOU have a choice about how much to help. If mom says "no", then back off!

So Jeanne a and all,

A heavy question here: Are you basically saying that if she has an emergency and I don't respond to even be prepared for if she expires? Because you have to know that is indeed a factor; everything is not always going to end up okay.

Your mother has been good to you at times. She has been good to your sister. She is not the Mother From Hell. You are entirely entitled to decide how much and how to help her. "She took care of me as an adult, and I'm going to return the favor" is a perfectly justifiable decision. If that is your decision, do the helping with grace and minimal complaining.

The fact that your mother has been good to you does not obligate you to turn your own life upside down to help her, especially when she claims not to want your help. You can step back, continue to be nice to her, but set boundaries and enforce them.

Help her gracefully, or set boundaries to your help. We can be supportive of your decision either way, once you make it and share it.

Or as we say in this land of 10,000 lakes, Fish or Cut Bait.

Hello,

I hear what you're all saying--save for the bus comment, but I can add that to my voicemail message--but it's difficult. Maybe not to you guys, but I'm sure it took some practice too. But my mother was there when I fell and broke my ankle in three places. She took care of my shopping, dog, etc. Wouldn't ordinarily have done it that way, but I felt she was the only one I could trust with my furry one, keys and debit card. She did this for a good 5-6 months while I had my surgery and rehab, all in 2011. While she's a narcissist, she also does things like that and never asked for money nor bragged about it. All this plays in the back of my mind. And that absent sister of mine who NEVER responds? When my mother's mother died, my mother let this sister rent out her house she received from the will, at half the monthly price.

Ceecee what would happen if you got run over by a bus this afternoon?

Just how long will Mama's boyfriend stay after she insists on returning home after a week of rehab? When he sees what is involved, he will probably head for the hills.

It seems as if you are already planning to step in and take care of your mother, because you seem adamant about stopping school. If the issue was just your stressful job, would you continue on with school?

I think you need to set some very firm boundaries before the surgery and then enforce them. It seems as if in the past, you relent and run to Mama to take care of her. Everyone in your family is probably counting on you doing it again.

And, like BarbBrooklyn has already asked, why is Mama's apartment and door any of your concern?

What surprise says!

Cee Cee, I want to second what Surprise is saying. You need to follow up on the boundaries, not just talk about them.

If you call your mom and the phone is busy, it's NOT your job to try to figure out why. She went to the hospital, was offered aftercare and chose not to have it. That's HER bad choice. Not your job to fix it.

Her apartment, her door, HER PROBLEM! Not yours.

CeeCee, this is what you ask: "I'm wondering what part that posters don't understand that I am being direct, as that is how I am. What part are some people seeing that seems wrong?"

Your directness is 100% fine! It's your follow through. It's not up to you to convince people that you are saying Truth. It's only up to you to change your own behavior - you can't do anything about anyone else. So you say, as you already have, "I'm not going to be able to help you in Feb, so I'm glad you've made other plans." You leave it at that.

You don't worry about what sister or aunt or Mom are going to do when mom has her fall, accident, or needs 24-hour care. When - not if, as you know - they call you, you say, "I'm really sorry to hear that. Do keep me informed. I won't be able to come help as I told mom back in Dec when we talked about this being a bad time for me and I suggested another time. In fact, I have to go now. Bye!"

Call that hard-hearted, but that's where the real boundary setting lies. With how you respond to those calls later, not now. Stop arguing. "Let your no be no and your yes be yes." Tell them the truth now (you have) and then follow through on that being truth (you won't have time when it happens). You don't have to argue them into believing you. Your actions will speak louder than any words you can say and will have a greater effect going forward.

You know how you say your sister is missing in action? She may have done the same thing by saying she would not do something, and your mom and other family members ignored what she said and guilted her into it. Now you all know that she WILL NOT help and you believe that about her because of her actions. She may have been trying to say "NO" for years until she put her shoulder into it! She may be narcissistic, but she has done something right not to get dragged into the drama with tending Mama.

That's the view from my perch! Bless you - follow through was the hard part for me too. The book my therapist had me read first was Boundaries by Cloud and Townsend, and they talk about speaking and acting on those words too.

High Surprise,

I really like your post. The analogy is a good one and I can see it objectively. Veronica 91, she has her boyfriend who lives down south who plans to come up for the surgery. So that shouldn't be a problem. The thing is that she keeps putting up walls on people and likes to be alone. So she claims she's planning to send him home after as little as a week. I told her if she does that she's going to be in trouble because I am returning to school. I'm wondering what part that posters don't understand that I am being direct, as that is how I am. What part are some people seeing that seems wrong? School? School is very draining that is why I need to unload a bit and looking at a backup like certificates; because the reality is I really don't know what's going to happen and I don't want to be immersed only to end up with an emergency. It could give me even more headaches. I could ignore it for a while, but it only gets bigger and louder. At least my oldest sister called tonight. She is my half-sister on my dad's side, who passed away a few years ago. In fact, he's a good example of what I wouldn't put up with (another narcissist, lucky me) because he was not a provider all our lives due to hanging out all the time and was separated from my Mom for a number of years until his death. When he got to be a senior, he ended up in a group home and these same family members: my mother, this same grandmother who is his stepmother, and my sisters expected me to be running over there. My grandmother would ask over the years, what if something happened to him? I would answer then something would happen and he brought it on himself. That he was lucky he was being tended to in that group home; he could be living on the street. In getting back to my oldest sister that is his daughter, she called and said she was going to come take my grandmother out to lunch tomorrow. Originally, she was hoping I could come too, but I told her I've been out from work and I really needed a break from our grandmother. But I was glad that they were going. Told her about my mother and what happened. We had a nice talk and she is basically a sweetheart, but she would also be an advocate of me stepping up for my mother. So this is complicated because it could ruin more relationships than just my mom. Precious ones. I'll just have to play it by ear for now and glad to be able to vent on this forum. By the way, Veronica 91 I have to read up on your own story.

Ceecee I really don't know where to start because you have received good suggestions and ideas from other posters.
My first thought is that you are continually harming yourself. Think of it this way. if you had just burnt your hand in a flame would you put you hand back to see if the flame really caused the burn?
Of course you would not.
Is Mom's hip surgery really necessary? Is she in a lot of pain? Can she get around on her own, go shopping, drive to church etc? Mom is 80 years old at that age surgery takes a huge toll on the body and many elders do not survive more than a year after hip replacement.
There is absolutely not question that she needs to go to rehab straight from the hospital. She needs 24 hour care as she won't be safe to walk alone to the bathroom, make herself a meal or even get a drink. She will be given narcotics for the pain. can she be trusted to take them independently?
Someone will have to be there and this is the time you tell her it is not going to be you. If she has help lined up that will be fine. If it pleases you you can offer to get her groceries once a week or fetch prescriptions. But you should not answer calls to fetch every little thing she thinks up. "I will get it on saturday morning when i go to the grocery store for you" Don't get sucked in. At the hospital make it very clear to the discharge planner hat you will not be available to care for her when she is discharged and she does not have the option of refusing rehab.
You need to complete your degree to secure your own future and missing a semester is not even an option. You are about 14 years from retirement. Do you have savings for your own retirement. Are there enough contributions to get the max in Social security. Unless you win the lottery you will need every penny you can stash away now.
Your work situations sounds like a nightmare but try and stick with it at least as long as you are in school. It will help you get a better job if you have a good work record. No work no Disability if you get sick and can't work. So keep that job. "Sorry Mom I can't miss work they may fire me. "
Try making a list of various options and write down the pros and cons
For example: Drop out of college,stop work and take care of Mom full time.
Pros Mom will have you full time to torture.
You can move in and give up your own home
Cons No money of your own.
No job now and possibly in the future.
Mom may be for ever changed after the surgery.
Your mental and possibly physical health will go down the toilet.
You will loose all your friends.
Your friends won't want to listen to your constant complaints.
Any chance of meeting a new partner will be lost.
You will be so tired your self care will suffer.
Mom my need to be helped to the toilet multiple times during the night.
her mental stuff may change for the worst.
i could go on but i won't this is not a simple yes or no situation. mom is not going to change but you can and build a better life for yourself.

CeeCee, that's great that you made a name to remind you to put yourself at the top of your priorities! Yes, we were trained to be the supply for our Narc Moms. We see people who have really separated from the situation well as "cold-hearted" as you said about your sis. But perhaps it does not matter what other people call you if you have learned to take care of yourself first.

If you can step back from the emotion of the situation, consider this: There is this older lady who does not take care of herself well and likes to sit around wasting time, yet expects other people to ask how high when she says jump. She's not particularly nice or interested in them, but she is vicious when people don't obey her whims. She talks about people who don't obey her like they are horrible people, even if they had previous engagements she wanted them to break and they valued their "word" more than her whims.

Perhaps your sister, narc or not, is simply allowing mom to reap what she has sown. If you pick up the slack, it's not sister's fault for leaving slack, it's mom's for not pulling back that slack when she had the means to fix it.

Saying NO is not cold-hearted. You are allowing other people who are paid for their emergency work to bless your mother with their knowledge when you tell the neighbor to call 911 then your number. You can call the ER in half an hour and see how she's doing. But you don't even have to leave your desk. Hang in there.

By the way, when I looked at the screen name I created here "Ceeceeneedsme", I realized how that might sound to some who responded to me. Just to clarify, I am that person CeeCee and not my mother, lol. I chose that name because after hearing my (narcissistic) mother tell me since I was around 10 "who cares about how you feel?" (might have been high or drunk), I realized over the years I didn't talk about what I REALLY wanted from people. Because for a long time I didn't even know, until I got older. Thus, the name to make a statement that I am about doing for me first!