As per my many other posts, 90 yo mom is in rehab after an hip fracture and we cannot care for her at home. Hard decisions are coming. She’s super independent and has not made a financial POA. She now cannot take care of her bills but does have the money to pay them. Now she has only been able to sign checks for my brother to pay them but she still says, "Oh yes, I pay my own bills." She will have to go into a SNF, although she is in denial of that.
What should be our next steps legally since she has not prepared for this eventuality? I’m the only one who tried to get her to prepare ahead of time but she was resistant and I didn’t have the family support to back me up.
At this late stage in the game, should we still consult an elder law attorney to get a FPOA along with other advice? She obviously cannot go herself. Would one even talk to us without her regarding an FPOA? I can use her credit card to pay and I would get her permission first but I can see her not seeing the need as she thinks she’s going home. Would I have to pay for it myself? My brother is not even on board. Am I looking at a potential minefield here since I do not have FPOA?
In my other posts, others have suggested just waiting until they place her in SNF, spend her remaining cash assets, then applying for Medicaid. Again, since there’s no FPOA, what say in the financials do we even have as her kids? She still has full control of her assets. We can access some of her bank accounts but not all. Should we get FPOA to do that?
Every time I ask and get one question answered, five more come up in its place. Such a complex journey and feels like I’m having to navigate in the dark.
On a side note, I REFUSE to do this to my kids when the time comes — just because of pride with subsequent lack of preparation. I care about them too much.
You and your brother go down to the probate court in the town your mother lives in. Ask them what you should do concerning trying to get financial POA for your mother who's going into a nursing home. Bring your existing POA documents. They will direct you on what steps need to be taken next. This might involve an elder lawyer, it might not. Talk to them.
SO WATCH WHAT YOU WISH FOR.
Truth is that most things you can manage as family for your Mom, and if she is suddenly unable to manage, will likely be in care where a Social Worker can have one of you appointed to Conservatorship or temporary Guardianship through a judges order. I have seen it done with a phone call from Social Worker basically.
An attorney can come see Mom while she is in Care. It would be a good idea to have Elder Law Attorney come by and discuss mom's options here, that it would be in HER interests to have this document ready when needed, or even done now. Then it's basically up to her. Knowing all you've said here I don't think your mom will do this, and I wouldn't be buying trouble with her early. When you have to, somehow this will get done, if she doesn't wish to do it now.
But go ahead. Discuss it with her.
I sit down with each parent regularly to, open mail, at which time I open my computer to log-in to their accounts. I've only logged in once without them physically present (I was out of town for 3 weeks for radiation therapy but had each on the phone at the time).
My mom is like yours, stubborn and independent. My parents keep separate finances. Yesterday was a sit-down and sort day. It takes about an hour. Dad wished her luck to get thru without a fight LOL. We do it a piece of mail at a time. Some sessions are more difficult than others depending on my level of patience and hers of ability to concentrate. I take a Lorazapam first.
Dad is easier. Both are geniuses. He doesn't try to get fancy with investing. He just wants the lowdown.
Having a PO box and letting mail stay there helps, because we go thru finances while opening mail together starting with the fun letters. I usually try to do it every other week.
Autopay is your friend. I put most bills on auto pay which took convincing. Looking at the accounts together helped make them more comfortable with that decision. I was also able to remove subscriptions they no longer used. Found them about $200/month in savings. Couldn't have done that without access to accounts.
Lastly, I use 3way calling alot. I "help" them with calls to banks, etc. I keep a single notebook to document calls/conversations.
”you” need poa or the banks can freeze ( ie just steal) your mums money if god forbid anything happened to her.
tell her the law can take her money if one isn’t done making a complete mockery of her savings - to give to bank greedy charity
she’s of sound mind - tell her so nothing can be done without her ok
It needs to be done.
Some on this forum may be amazed that I had so very little knowledge of all of these things when it comes to elder care, how it related to family dynamics etc. And I give myself credit for persisting in finding the answers on this forum and elsewhere. Some or maybe most of us were never given the guidance or resources we needed ahead of time to navigate this path and were left on our own.
At some point when this is all said and done I hope to be able to help someone else on this journey with the knowledge/experience I’ve gained. There are some who’ve never had to go down this road and I have to say I am truly envious of them, because for me it has not been a ‘beautiful’ journey —- or is there such a thing?
But no longer am I floundering in the dark. Sometimes our knowledge only comes through our own experience.
I think I can now at least save myself — even if I can’t save my mom from her own, and others, prideful decisions.
You got this!
If you can get your mom to agree, you could find an Attorney that would come to the hospital. They do that.
Or, like I had to do with my dad, I went to my states attorney general website, downloaded the POAs and the hospital provided the notary. I had no problems with these forms, I did DGPOA, MCPOA and Mental health POA (this one can not be revoked and it gave me total authority in the event his mind went).
However, I would caution you that it won't take effect in any situation that your mom is deemed able to answer for herself. That means she CAN refuse to go to a nursing home and you won't be able to force her even though you will be told differently, it's not true that POA can force anything against the will. Only a judge can take these rights away from a person. You already know how your brother is going to side with mom, so save the battle, if push comes to shove.
This is where your decision to step out or away and not prop up a farce of independence will come in. You get to decide for you, nobody can force you to participate in this if you choose not to.
You have to know what you are willing to do and stick to that, otherwise, you could become a care slave in a situation that you tried to stop.
This is going to be really hard based on everything you have shared and it is just really hard telling our parents that we won't support them in their bad choices. It sucks the heart out of you to have to stop being a resource for bad decisions, so prepare your heart for this difficult situation.
I had to remind myself that the love I had for my dad was why he needed care in a facility, it was the best option from a lot of bad options. There are no good choices for her situation, just the ones that meet the needs.
Oh, PLEASE do not sign any admission paperwork for your mom. You WILL be held financially responsible without having the POA to sign on her behalf. She can sign for herself or it doesn't get signed. I have never seen any admission paperwork that doesn't have a financial acceptance by signature clause buried in it, so don't believe someone saying just sign here it is only for...
Mom is in rehab.
Please consult the Social Workers there for your options.
If your mother is refusing to give anyone FPOA then I would step away from the entire mess. It is impossible to do FPOA for someone unwilling to confer it upon you.
If you believe she isn't competent in this decision see an Elder Law Attorney for options, but one would be guardianship. That would be a nightmare of money (likely 10K) and to do for someone unwilling.
It is time to discuss options today with the Social Workers.
You are asking us continual questions here on AC while mom is in rehab. And while she is in rehab is the IDEAL TIME to get these answered by their social workers.
If your mother is competent but unable to handle her affairs I would not attempt to get control of handling things as it will be argument and foment forever. Apparently she will not even consent to placement she needs. As long as you are doing all this stuff for her this will not come together in a managable way and she will just be going back home, and then back and forth hospital to home with you constantly scrambling to take care of things as you are.
There is really nothing we can do here to help you. You already know what is needed for this to run smoothly and your mother is saying no. I would tell her either she confers FPOA on you so you can act on her behalf, and consents to placement, or you step away and let her flounder, paying an occasional visit here and there with flowers, cards and chocolates. She is so far manning the ship and giving the orders and you all are scrambling to do her bidding when you know this isn't sustainable.
Speak to the social workers in rehab.
AFTER you do that, come back and let us know what they tell you.