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tlf208, Daughterof1930 made the point that the current situation is broadcasting a dysfunctional model of relationships and problem-solving to your kids. I totally agree this is an issue and never too late to correct. Also, if you think it would help you launch into this "project" by going to a counselor together so that she can hear from someone else that the living arrangement and her drinking need to change. I sense that her anger causes you to avoid this confrontation (not that I blame you) so having a neutral party to mediate will be immensely helpful and you will get heard and she won't get defensive, or feel threatened and attacked. FYI I realize counseling isn't cheap, but if your car's transmission went out, how much would you spend to fix it? Twenty five years is quite an investment. I think it is worth a little more to save your marriage. I hope you are feeling buoyed by the support expressed in this post.

To help your FIL find new digs: contact your local area's Council (or Agency) on Aging -- they have lots of info on housing. He should go into a senior community if at all possible where he will have a much richer social life with people his own age.
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tlf208 Mar 2020
Thank you, the dilemma with my kids is that I also want to teach them to take care of their wives and their elders too. It's hard for me to set that example under the circumstances. My wife had actually suggested counseling several months back, which I agreed to do, but she never followed through on setting anything up. I will talk to her about it again and try to get the ball rolling myself.
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Wow,, you say she can barely get herself dressed, shower, and then sits on the couch all day,, and sleeps 12 hours a day? But she can go to Trader Joes and get 6-8 CASES of wine.,by herself? Of her dad gets a "case or two",, What the heck? Who brings that into the house? I mean that is a lot of weight..
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tlf208 Mar 2020
Let me clarify - Lupus/fibro is a funny thing - She has a finite amount of energy to work with for the day, and once it is spent, it's couch time. The common relatable way to explain it is with spoons. Each day you wake up with a handful of spoons. Some days more than others. Every task you do will cost you a spoon. Take a shower - one spoon gone. going out to the store - that might take 2. make dinner - one more. When your handful of spoons is spent, you literally have no more energy and can just sit sedentary for the rest of the day. You are not sleepy, but fatigued. Sleeping is also not restorative as it is for most of us. There are some days where she has to "catch up" after having spent a day out, and will sleep for 16 hours - no joke!

Some days she has more energy than others and goes out to the store or makes dinner, other days it's just from bed to shower to sofa. When she makes the wine run, or if her father goes (he still drives, that's another issue) it is either I or one of the kids who are asked to unloads the cases out of the back of my wife's SUV or my FIL's trunk.
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tlf208: I'm replying to your reply where you mention that 75% of couples dealing with lupus (and fibromyalgia) divorce. My sister has lupus and polymyositis. Upon reaching her late 60's, these issues only got worse. She & her husband divorced 4 years ago. At the time, I was very upset and angry with BIL (my sister was actually in better shape emotionally) As time went on I began to understand more why he felt the way he did; their life together as husband & wife changed to homebound caregiver & patient. No elderly parent to care for but a couple of other things added to their stress. I hope the best for you and your wife but I think you should consider acting on the suggestions such as Geaton777 mentions.
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Forgive me if I missed it but how is your wife obtaining the 7-14 bottles of wine a week? That's a lot of alcohol, a lot of neurotoxins being ingested by an ill person, a lot of $ being spent.

And I'll just say it, are you really sure she's hopelessly ill with chronic conditions right now that just can't improve, or is it the alcohol? Is she under a doctor's care now and what does he or she say about how she might feel if she weren't drinking so much?

Another thought: NPD?

I apologize to all chronically ill people out there, the vast majority of whom I would estimate aren't behaving like the poster's wife but are doing their best with the hand they are dealt. Just food for thought in case anything resonates with the poster.
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tlf208 Mar 2020
She will usually get 6-8 cases of wine at a time from Trader Joe's when she does go out, or her father will get a case here and there. He drinks one small glass per day. I certainly think that the alcohol compounds the effect of her lupus and fibro. From what I have read, people often drink to dull the immediate pain, but it only serves to exacerbate it in the long run, sort of a vicious cycle.

I had to look up NPD, and admittedly I probably have a little of that going on myself. We were both very ambitious and successful people, and I still thrive on accomplishments both in our business and the community. For her, she had a hard adjustment period many years ago when she went from being involved in the business to being a stay-at-home mom when our kids were born. It was very hard for her to give up the sense of accomplishment and self-reliance that comes from being a breadwinner, even though she had always said she wanted nothing more than to be a mom. Ultimately she settled in to it, especially when she became involved in the kids' school. Now, I know she is struggling with the mental and emotional toll of not being able to do a lot of physical things or to be a contributor, but it gets taken out on me in passive-aggressive ways like telling me I am not focused on our livelihood if the business gets slow and cash is short, or that I am controlling when I say she overbuys food that ends up getting thrown away.

I certainly have my faults and my actions (or lack of) no doubt contributed to the current state of affairs - whether with or without meaning to.
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Of course you want those things from your wife! You are definitely not wrong for how you feel.
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You are not wrong for the way you feel. But what you're doing will not save your marriage.

You are free to leave the house and engage in all kinds of productive, useful activities which, to boot, are considerably more fulfilling and agreeable and sociable than time spent at home. No one can blame you for pursuing them.

Your wife isn't free. Partly because of her health, no doubt, but also, probably, because she feels trapped at home by her responsibilities and her situation. Demotivated, depressed, burdened by her father, and now abandoned by you.

This WILL separate you. The relationship will die. Mine did, with no blame attached to my then SO. He did his best, it became too much for him, he found other places to be and other things to do. I stopped caring whether he was around or not because it made no difference to my daily routine. When we concluded that we wouldn't be going anywhere together even after my mother died, it was a relief, really; and then when that happened and she passed away we went our separate ways.

Least of my worries, if I'm honest about it; but I didn't have a 25 year marriage and two children in common with him. The worst I suffered was disappointment. You are not in the same position, you have things to lose which you would regret losing, and you have children who - nearly adults or not, understanding and sympathetic or not - *would* be damaged if your marriage were to fail.

It is avoidance behaviour, yes; but it's not 'just' anything. Consider what you're avoiding: confrontation, resentment, anger at seeing a constant drain on your wife's limited resources. Better stay out of the house than batter the old guy's head in with a brick (metaphorically speaking, of course). And you don't want to hurt your wife, or put pressure on her.

You have to do the groundwork, and then you may also have to be the Bad Guy. But Get Him Out.

Meanwhile, pick something to give up, and give your wife that time instead. Watch a movie with her. Cook dinner. Talk (not about the home situation) to your FIL, and take his socialisation needs off her hands for an hour. Don't expect sudden changes, just begin.
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Whew, you sure do have your hands full.

This is the perfect place to vent. Do not feel bad for the NEED to discuss your issues. Especially here where it is safe and anonymous.

Having an extra person living in your house is definitely a strain. My mom lives with us and while she's a lovely person, it is draining!

You do need to take care of yourself and set some boundaries. You need to figure out where your lines in the sand are. Or at least have an honest, yet kind, conversation with your wife about how you are feeling. Your feelings and issues are important and need to be considered.

Of course, it will not be easy to have her dad move out. There are likely to be hard feelings from either him or her or both. But, if your wife can be on your side and you can present a united front, that would be really helpful. I realize that may not be an option.

I agree that you should work with a therapist to help you work through this. It is a bit complicated.

Your wife also seems to have some work to do. Seems like she might be able to take better care of herself and get some of her issues under better control. Without 1 -2 bottles of wine/night. That's a LOT!

If you can not get any traction with your wife, you may need to consider at least a separation to see if any progress can be made. Tell her that you are not happy. Give her a chance to do better. BUT you have to come first.
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Wow, what a load you’re carrying. Most would have cracked under this strain a long time ago. You’re not wrong for wanting life to be better, please also consider that you’re modeling for your children what marriage should look like, and yours is definitely not healthy. Many people deal with chronic health conditions, your wife has become trapped in hers, adding alcoholism and depression to the mix. Unless she’s willing to deal with those issues, there’s little you can do outside of contacting her doctor and letting him/her know of the depression and excessive drinking. The FIL needs to move out, this shouldn’t cause guilt for you, it’s a normal part of life. Have an honest conversation. Above all, seek counseling for yourself. I hope you’ll find the courage and peace to change this misery. I wish you the best
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"Should my father in law go?" One of you has to go. Either he goes or you go.

"Can my my marriage be salvaged?" The physical intimacy is gone. Your wife is an alcoholic and takes her father's side against you. What exactly is there to salvage?

What do you want the next 20+ years of *your* life to look like? Start living whatever that life looks like to you. Start living your best life (sorry to get all Oprah on you) because life is too short to be miserable.
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tlf208 Mar 2020
I want to be on the same life path again, but we have diverged so that I don't know how to get back there. I want to confide in her again. I want to do fun things with her again to the extent that she can. I want to feel good about doing things for her again. I want to be grandparents someday. I want to just find joy in her company. Losing the physical intimacy is hard, but it isn't everything. Our age difference has likely contributed to this too, and with her health condition she has physically aged at a much more rapid pace than me.

I have started to do more of my own thing over the last year or so, and she no longer joins me at community events. I think for the most part that is because of her health, but she makes me feel guilty sometimes. When I have several events close together she says things like, "you're never home any more," or "you're always at some dinner somewhere," or "you're always at the office on the weekend." Am I avoiding being home? To a certain degree yes - I just don't like being there under the circumstances. And there's my dilemma: is this just an avoidance behavior and I'm wrong for the way I feel?
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Give dad (FIL) a move out date.
As long as he can manage on his own help him look for Independent Living or if needed Assisted Living.
Obviously this is a discussion for both you and your wife to have with him.

If your wife consumes as much wine as you state part of her problem might be that she is an alcoholic. This can also contribute to her "brain fog". The amount of alcohol should be discussed with her doctor as well.

As I have said a few other responses to posts...I hate ultimatums but sometimes they are necessary.
This is your home as well as hers.
You have every right to be heard and respected when it comes to your feelings and your opinions.
Discuss with her that you feel as if you are not being respected nor are your opinions being respected.
The two of you might do well with counseling but if she refuses then you should go.
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Geaton and Country Mouse are exactly right. You must stand up for yourself or you too will become ill. And do continue your activities out of the house. They fuel you and maybe even define you to yourself. If father in law has money he can make it on his own, especially since he doesn't currently need much care. Or does he do a lot of the care of his daughter while you are gone? If that is the case, could you hire someone else to do that job so you can feel comfortable in your own home?
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tlf208 Mar 2020
Thank you, he does not do anything for her, nor does she require any assistance. Her condition just saps her strength and she can't do the everyday domestic things she used to (laundry, meals, dishes, tidying up, etc.) I fill in most of the gaps there, and we have a paid house cleaner every other week for the heavy stuff. He does not do any of those things either, except taking out the trash every now and then or running to the market for some quick essentials. Otherwise he fixes his own breakfast and lunch, and has a routine of where what he does and where he goes during the day (walk, library, pharmacy, etc.)

He does have the means to provide for himself financially, though he's by no means wealthy. When he initially came to live with us, he looked at a couple senior apartments but ultimately decided that for the price and the space it just wasn't worth it, he didn't want to be alone, and he wanted to be able to leave something for his children when he dies. I have even told my wife that I would gladly pay for his housing to get him out of the house but she just says we can't do that to him. I'm feeling like a selfish heel again just typing this.
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"Should my father in law go?"

Yes.

Your wife sounds incredibly depressed. Hence the downturn in her health, hence her reliance on alcohol. The alcohol makes the depression and the downturn worse. It is a horrible vicious circle. She doesn't know what to do about it: she's too caught up to see any way out. Do something about it for her.

I should start by looking for alternative housing for him. Obviously this can't be a short-term solution, the timing is terrible; but knowing what the options are, costing them, making plans for consideration are all positive moves.

And - I'm glad you found us! This is a safe place to vent feelings, because I think most of us have felt and thought - not to mention said and done - things we'd rather not have in retrospect. No one is going to be telling you you're wrong.
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tlf208 Mar 2020
Thank you for your insight and compassion. It feels good just to have started a conversation about this.

Yes she is depressed, and has been on medication for depression for some time. I would be depressed too if I felt terrible all the time, couldn't do the things that I used to do, and knew that my spouse was unhappy. The downturn in her health though is because of her condition and its progression as she ages, and that fuels the depression.

I am struggling to imagine how I can tell my wife that he should move out, without causing her, him, and their side of the forever resenting me for it.

I'm feeling like I'm the weak one because I cannot rationally cope with the things life has thrown at us, and I think my wife feels that way too - that I should just suck it up and deal with it.
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tlf208, I'm sorry to read about your struggles. You have been carrying a heavy load pretty valiantly, so kudos to you for that. If you read other posts on this forum you will see that by no means are you alone.

Three things:
#1) explain to your wife that in order for you to stay in your marriage that your father must move out. Period. (Also don't let those kids linger too long, either).
#2) explain to your wife that for you to stay in the marriage she needs to go to treatment for alcoholism and successfully complete it.
#3) YOU must go to counseling for your co-dependency and enabling.

What is the chronic illness that is debilitating your wife? This info will help you get very good insight from others on this forum with similar situations and experiences. I wish you all the best as you work towards a better marriage and life!
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tlf208 Mar 2020
Thank you for your insight, and #3 is definitely something for me to think about too. My wife has lupus and fibromyalgia. From what I have found, the divorce rate for couples with that is upwards of 75%, I don't want to be a statistic but I really do understand why it can tear a marriage apart.
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