My father died in October of 2019. He died due to some unbelievable negligence exhibited by the hospital and the nursing home he was in.

I am so sorry for your loss. Your post brought tears to my eyes. There are no words that would truly help in this matter. It is gut wrenching. All I can say is that I hope you can find peace with whatever you decide to do. If you decide to sue, I hope that you win for you, for your dear father and any others that have suffered such a tragedy.

Never say never with a lawsuit. My sister in law sued a hospital when they did not inform her of a malignancy. She had two young daughters to think of. She ended up having chemo treatment, bone marrow, plus both breasts removed and reconstruction. She won millions! She survived too! She always said that she was too mean to die! She was a heavy smoker. She ended up dying from lung cancer. She had smoked since she was a teenager. She wasn’t a ‘sue happy’ person. My brother left her in the middle of treatment. She was a single mom and was very concerned for her kids.

I know you would not do it for the monetary value. It’s about negligence.

I have a good friend who was a criminal prosecuting attorney. He switched to being a malpractice attorney. He stays extremely busy! He finds the job rewarding and has won many cases for his clients. I wish you all the luck in the world.

Sending you a bazillion hugs 💗.

I was the 'sandwich' generation... taking care of elders and my child..

I was told, to let my elder go, so I can care more for my child. A lot of late, but better than nothing. I see her when I can, and hope that is good enough.

Good luck.. You will be okay no matter what you decide.... :)

I say, spend more time with your family, make memories... God knows, I sure havent.... I can't even get away for an hour without a caretaker calling me..Your auntie needs to go to hospital.. when can you get here.. I called my taxi man to meet me in an hour.
I spent the night at a friend's home, an hour away... FINALLY I FIGURED OUT THE TIME OF TRAVEL IS MOSTLY AND HOUR AWAY...
I was on the freeway home, when I got the call...The time before I was 4 hours away.. too long, for my kids team game....That was terrifiying...

WITH ALL THIS BEING SAID;;;; EVERYONE, GET YOUR ORDERS STRAIGHT. GET YOUR LIVING WILL DONE, DNR, WHAT YOU WANT DONE WITH YOUR BODY AND WHERE YOU WANT IT TO GO.!!! IN all Seriousness. I didn't realize it was this serious. but it is... My dad wanted cremation, as my friends's dad did. My mom, aunt,and brother. and so do i...
Had you seen my MIL'S CASKET... it would have blown everyone away. Elegant, beautiful with a "mesh type covering, so you can weave rose in between.. It was so beautiful... It was a shame to lay it underneath the ground.GEORGOUS...... I am the opposite. I don't need that... Tosss me to to wind...ocean. or into a diamond to be placed on a necklace...
Wnhatever you wantto do is ok.. I wll be dead...
do want you need to to.

AND GN

Another lil’ item...... if MediCARE paid for any of his care & settlement is actually reached, Medicare has a “secondary party Payor requirement”. It’s similar to what MERP is for Medicaid Estate Recovery in that $ is repaid or recoup.

in theory the tort atty should establish an escrow like account in which the settlement $ goes - & atty fees & legal costs are NOT in in this account- and funds held to repay any entities who have may have dibs on the $. You can get a draw on a portion of the $ though. Medicare as they paid for stuff can go after the settlement $ to get repaid if those costs were included in the suit. If other insurers paid as well, they too can try to get some of the settlement $. It’s on you to make sure this all clears too. I bet atty will have you sign off a hold harmless, so you get the $ then if blowback happens it’s your hot mess to get out of. Your mom as the widow will be the one dunned on this by Medicare. What they can do I don’t really know. But it’s federal and have resources to hound till forever....

if Mom is quite the narcissist, she’s gonna put the blame on someone for putting her in this new chapter of hell, and that I’m guessing will be you?

I'm P'M ing you with a few links to attorneys who are very successful, but also advertise intensely, and  have learned how to leverage their product (lawsuits from injury) into a lucrative business.  You might want to call them to get their take on the situation.    It might help put things in perspective.

One of Sanhoro's responses on follow up reporting to Medicare is worth bringing back into the mainstream of questions.   Sanhoro, I hope you don't mind my quoting your entire response?

"Periodically, I get a letter from the authorities that they did another surprise audit of the hospice and they continue to find the same problems. I suspect that they will continue until they get a clean bill of health. So there is the good that will come to other people who have to use the services. They have done 3 surprise inspections in the last six months."

Alonna,

These are the kinds of follow-up actions that can be taken to do something.  And they're safer, less expensive and could be more rewarding for you than managing your own lawsuit.


Igloo makes very good points on depositions.   They can and will be brutal to crush the credibility of anyone, and create a situation so unpleasant that participants in the suit change direction and segue into "I just want this to be over!" approach.  Then the lowball settlement offer is made.

There are also a lot of court rules that you'd need to learn, and specific standards of the court in which you file.   Slip up and the lawsuit could be dismissed.   In some ways it's like walking on thin ice.


Litigation attorneys are a breed unto themselves, especially in the contentious fields of malpractice, products liability and divorce.   The financial reward just isn't there, unless the firm creates a very visible presence, like the ones who advertise on TV regularly or rent billboards on main highways, or the TV attorneys like Dershowitz, who move in an entirely different circle.

Transactional law (which includes corporate, real estate, and related fields is much different.  The parties stand their ground, but also work toward mutual goals.

Alonna--I a sorry for your loss. Just yesterday it hit me that my own daddy died at the age of 75, which seemed 'old' to me, but as my Dh and I approach our 70's--he'll be 70 in 2 years--I realize that our bodies are tired and wearing down.

82 is good, long life. We seem to never want to let our parents go, for whatever reason. But the truth is, they do die, and we need to come to grips with it.

Now, having said that, you need to grieve and it seems you need to place blame on dad's death on someone, who may or may not have contributed to it through negligence. Sadly, you probably will never really know.

My son is a lawyer and he often says that the person who tries to represent themselves in court have terrible lawyers (themselves). I know enough about law to know that a med mal case is nearly impossible to win. And you would be going up against some real sharks, as it were. Med mal attys on either side have to be tough and no nonsense. The hospitals have deep pockets and the patience to wait out lawsuits.

I would suggest you seek some counseling for your grief. And try to let this go. People die...that is a part of life. The fact that you weren't there as he became so sick may be part of you inability to get through this.

I'm so sorry for your loss. I, too, was a daddy's girl and losing him so young has been sad and lonely at times. But he was sick and miserable and was never going to become well again.

However, you most assuredly CAN act as your own attorney. Know in advance, it will be brutal and depressing.

Good Luck, with whatever you choose to do.

Realize that if you sue, that they can require depositions from your mom, you, any old caregivers you had, old MDs, other family members. And it could be brutal...... they can get his medical records & if he had a prior hospitalization and after care was at home, ask how done and in detail. Like ask steps done for everything from taking temperature to doing wound care. If he ever missed an appointment or did not renew his medications right on time, that will come up as well. It’s all about having him & you all look incompetent.

if mom is a narcissist, she makes it all about her, right?
Her deposition may be a disaster. They will let her run on & look totally self absorbed. If her m.o. is to make you her scapegoat, she might go on a rant about your lack of concern for her & dad. If she was difficult with others, in their depositions it might be payback time.
Your not in control of the narrative, it could backfire on you.

If you can, have the law firms you have appointments with explain & do an example for you how actuarial tables and health history are used to determine awards in your state. It’s imo why there’s no interest in taking you on under contingency fee for representation.

Your bereft. & should be. But I think you’d benefit from counseling. If dad had been on Medicare hospice, bereavement counseling is available to family as a part of Medicare. A bigger hospice group could probably provide you with a list of counseling services in your area that do private pay.

Alonnastorm,
I'm so sorry for your loss!
I understand how painful this is.
I want to share and will try to be brief, but it's complicated.
In early October I got a call that my beloved Uncle was in the hospital and wasn't expected to live thru the night. He was still hanging in there when I got to the SNF. It was a Sunday and he had Kaiser insurance. They don't seem to work on the weekends.
I wanted hospice involved. I have a medical background and my husband is a physician. I knew my Uncle was on his way out.
I saw a lot of things that I felt were neglect. I felt the facility could have done more.
My Uncle passed away 6 hours after I got to him.
The coroner's report said it was pneumonia and sepsis. Sounds familiar.
After speaking with his friends, I came to realize that my Uncle was tired. He was just plain done!
He gave up!
Nothing anyone could do could have fixed that.
I don't know if that was the case with your dear father. I just know that sometimes there's no rhyme or reason for death. Maybe there wasn't anything that could have been done to prolong your father's life.
If you truly believe that your father would want you to take on the hospital, then honor that. It might be very costly to you.
Just make sure that like my Uncle, this isn't what he wanted.
God bless and keep you in your quest! Praying for a speedy recovery for your heart!

I would be crushed with the emotional stress of going to court.

I got out of court jury one time... Judge asked me if I could be on a jury... I started wailing and crying..just because they asked me to be a juror... Judge's reaction was: Well, we don't been a crybaby in the box...." He was right, but then again, I had 3 people then I was taking care of.... Person going on trial, I know, was not wanting me on the jury... Seriously, don't think, he/she ever has done time with loved ones with disabilities, dementia, ALZ, or whatever disease there is.... This in itself, will change anyone's thoughts about doing some kind of stupid crime.
Whatever you decide... weigh your energy, and think about the time you may lose with your immediate loved ones...or the reward if you do so....
my friend/s hubby got a nice payout from the hospital that courts found in his favor...
So whatever you do... good luck and
GN

My brother's best friend, who is a lawyer, asked if I wanted to drag things out after all that has happened... :( I, myself, do not have the energy to tackle such a great cause.... Perhaps I should have.. I could have a few years back, when the same hospital left her sleeping standing up.. slung over her bed...I did not take pictures.. I was too mad/emotional, and screamed at the nurses station to correct the situation....ya, I could have gotten something with that... I was there in the moment...
Honestlly...most "elders" death certificates say: pneumonia....
These bodies are not meant to live forever... My brother's brain and body ceased before age 60.... My father before age 75, and my other living brother says I am next.... I am the youngest..... :[ Oh well.... I am ok. I have lived over the age of 40... so whatever happens now...happens...
So with all that being said... and this is where the other people who have responded may be correct....don't give up... I DID... I did what I was told... I do not want to be going to court for who knows how long...OUr friend knows me... I would be basically doing this myself and him.. and life is too stressful as it is,... and now I have to focus on my living loved ones.

Alonna, if you have the time you can absolutely represent yourself in a lawsuit.

Do some research and see if it is something that you feel comfortable doing.

We just represented and won in a lawsuit. Feels pretty amazing when you go up against a professional with the intention of harming your life and beating them at their own game.

It would be rewarding for you to take on the establishment and win, this is how change happens.

Best of luck holding the parties responsible for their actions.

Alonna, if you want to make a difference, here are some suggestions.

1.  Research the specific doctors,  hospital, nursing home and hospice company involved to determine if there is a history of med mal lawsuits against any of them.  

2.  Look specifically for class actions lawsuits, by code.   Court clerks in my experience use a system of 2 letter codes to indicate the type of lawsuit.    W/o checking my local clerk's office, I don't remember what the codes are, offhand.  

But if you can access complaints through your local county clerk, or department that maintains court cases and access, you can ask someone what the code is for med mal suits.

3.    If you find other med mal suits, note the plaintiff's attorneys and contact them.    You don't mention in your post that you SPECIFICALLY contacted med mal attorneys, although I'm assuming you did.  If not, that's WHY your case wasn't accepted. 

Law practice has been divided into many "practice areas", and attorneys outside those PAs don't take on cases in which they have little or nominal experience.  The learning curve doesn't validate that action.

4.    If you locate class action suits, contact the plaintiff's attorney and ask if they're still accepting "party plaintiffs."  There's a possibility you could become one, and participate in the lawsuit that way.

5.  As to the nursing homes, check their Medicare "report card", as well as clerk records for malpractice suits.  

6.   If you haven't gotten your father's medical records, you can do so, but the costs will be high.  For a month's stay, you're probably looking at several hundred dollars to get the records, and if the hospital isn't very responsive, the request can drift into piles or down to the bottom of requests.  

7.   The age issue is factored in with the computation of loss; actuarial tables are used and sadly, older people have less remaining longevity and therefore less value to their lives.   Again unfortunately, ours is not necessarily a country which values elders, as some less technological cultures do. 

8.  Sanhora provides excellent advice for action.   That really is the best thing you can do, as government intervention affects and helps protect other patients as well.

9.   Contact local advocacy agencies with ombudspeople who help others become more aware of their rights.  AARP may have some like this in various states.   It's a way to reach out and educate people so others can be alert to alarming symptoms.


I can understand how painful this is, and how much you want and need to take action.    But as you adjust to this new life, consider ways you can leverage this experience to make others aware of precautions to take, and alarming situations to address.

And may you find more peace each day as you travel down this difficult path.

I'd like to address one aspect of the responses, and this is not a criticism but rather an explanation.  It's the concept that hospitals and doctors have "very experienced lawyers and lots of funds."    That's really not the way med mal suits are defended.   They are referred to the med mal insurance carriers, which after review refer them to appropriate defense firms which specialize in med mal defense.

Some of these firms also handle other category defense lawsuits, such as products liability defense.   I learned quickly that theses firms don't pay well, b/c insurance companies don't want to pay as much as corporate clients, and want to resolve the cases quickly.  So there's impetus and reason to quickly settle and control the damage. 

In addition, lawsuits affect a physician's med mal premiums, which can rise based on insurance carrier evaluations and number of lawsuits.  A "frequent flyer" physician defendant is going to pay much more for med mal insurance.

So not only is it not a truism that hospitals and doctors have "experienced lawyers and lots of funds".   The likelihood is more that hospitals have in house counsel, who in years of experience I've found often have less experience, especially in courtrooms, than law firms' attorneys.   

In house counsel interact with the insurance carrier and its chosen counsel, so they do have decision making capacity, but generally their scope of influence is much broader and less concentrated or focused on one area of law than that of med mal defense firms.

Suing in the case of an elderly person will never work. A lawsuit now is limited in recovery. That is to say there is often a 250,000 limit in damages and that makes a difficult suit such as this not worth the time of an attorney. Hopefully they were honest with you. The only kind of lawsuit that works now is if a relatively young mother or father with dependents and an excellent job is injured DIRECTLY and WITHOUT QUESTION by a hospital and has not DIED, but has lived and will be in need of care the rest of their lives. That suit will win but the money will be sorely needed for the care and will never be enough. That is the truth of it. Laws for recovery in malpractice were changed more than a decade ago. Also most places have arbitration clauses built in. There is no way to tell that a pulmonary embolism is imminent, hence there is no way to prevent one before a patient has one. In the aged all bets are off with anything at all, because they are so fragile. So common is sepsis and pneumonia in the aged that pneumonia was once called "The old person's friend" because it is the most common way the elderly were ushered from life. As to immobility, that is a part of aging also, and no one can ever PROVE in a court of law that more mobility in an elderly person would have prevented pnemonia.
I am so sorry. You are grieving. But I can assure you as a lifelong nurse who has witnesses MANY lawsuit attempts, that there is honestly no case here. Moreover I have personally learned just how difficult such a case is when you have ALL THE GOODS and the person IS injured for life, and is young with dependents.
Save yourself the grief and anger. Thank goodness for the good long life of the person you loved, who is now at peace. Again, I am so sorry. You are free to be told no 1,000 times, but no lawyer will ever take such a case on contingency, and there may be vultures out there who will TAKE YOUR MONEY, make promises, and they will fail as well. So be certain if a lawyer promises to take your case it is on contingency.
I hope you heal, and that your future holds more happy memories to overcome this pain. My Dad was my hero, as well, our family's superman as well. I miss him to this day. But I thank goodness I had such a decent and fine and loving man to guide me through life for so long. Best wishes to you.

I think you'd have to have a finding of a deep vein thrombosis which is a common cause for a pulmonary embolism. Suspect that they were not keeping his legs elevated in a hospital bed. I think you'd need to have documented the care, observations about swelling or pain in the legs, and why he would be at risk for a DVT blood clot,

Sometimes people have a difficult time accepting a loved ones death. Perhaps grief counseling would be a better option for you to pursue. Your father was sick, he had issues. To prove Negligence would be very difficult at best and what exactly would this accomplish, as, it will not bring him back. Even Superman died, we all will.

I am very sorry that you are suffering.

You should document the types of negligence and report it to the state health department. I reported the intentional negligence of a hospice to Medicare and the state. They both raided their facility and fined them.

I would not be surprised the there was negligence for development of the sepsis if they were not turning him, cleaning him, and bathing him. My mom developed it twice in the hospital, and they made such a big theatrical thing of moving her and changing her on the bed when I showed up. It's apparent that proper cleaning wasn't being done since she had a sore.

As far as the hospice, in the last month of her life, the aide suddenly stopped coming in and would not come in despite calls. When she came in, she would show up 7 am when I was asleep and other times 4 or 5 hours later. Again, they declined to give a valid reason or indicate where she was. They were trying to wear down the family so that her level of care would decline.

They also tried to give her morphine at inappropriate times, such as a minor muscle ache.

They were constantly badgering the family for six months. telling us not to feed her by using phrases such as "she can't process food" or "give her only comfort food". They never gave a medical reason, just the same script.

When she was in her last week of life and laboring for air, the on-call nurse refused to allow the oxygenator to make her comfortable. Eventually, they caved in and a nurse was sent in.

They also refused any diagnoses for fever and would not send a doctor to examiner her.

The doctor only showed up once, appeared to be much too young, and said absolutely nothing during the 15 minutes.

I regret having used that hospice.

I am very sorry for you loss.  I think it is harder to find lawyers for older loved ones and the loss of life or mobility will be for a shorter period.  I don't know what state you are in, I think this is almost impossible in Florida

I'm sorry for your loss.  It's made even more painful with the knowledge of all this, and that others may have been in whatever way responsible.

It would be harder than you can imagine to do something like that yourself.  It'd cost you time, money, more pain, and likely result in an unfavorable verdict. 

If law firms turned down your case, it doesn't always mean you have/had no case (sorry).  Attorneys usually only take cases that they believe they can prove and will rise to a certain monetary level to offset their own fees.  When attorneys are dealing with anything involving the medical profession (and other type professions), attorneys must meet a higher level of proof than other cases in order to be successful.  Plus, whenever companies are sued, those companies' insurance carriers will spend more money fighting the case than they would have spent to settle and pay. (again, sorry)

Unfortunately, sometimes we're forced to accept how things are, and move on as best we can.  You did all you could for your father. 

Prayers sent your way for your loss.

I'm very sorry for the loss of your dad...
Ditto to what Tothill posted. They only take winnable cases. I was recently in jury selection for a case where an individual was taking on the IRS by themselves. It was painful to watch him flounder around in the courtroom. I read later in the paper of his guilty verdict. Hospitals and doctors have very experienced lawyers and lots of funds. The judges expect you to know what you're doing when you come into the courtroom. Tothill asks a very clarifying question: what do you hope to achieve? May you receive peace in your heart over this painful loss.

I’m very sorry for your loss.

If you had any chance at winning a lawsuit, then one of the firms you’ve contacted would have been willing to take the case. So no, I don’t think you have a shot at winning if you represent yourself. You also need to consider how much a lawsuit costs even if you do it yourself, as well as what you would be putting yourself through emotionally.

I am so sorry about the death of your father.

You have been given advice from experts that they could not win this suit, so if you think about it how could an individual without a legal background win it? Also what are you hoping to achieve, a financial settlement?

What sort of grief counseling have you had since he died? I think at this point that concentrating on getting emotional support will be more beneficial to you. You are still raw from his death and need support in processing it.