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My Dad's recovery is miraculous. However, he failed the Fit to Drive test with next step 'behind the wheel' test with DMV. This was in NJ. Fast forward, move to Florida. He wants to get his FL license and not tell them he failed the test in NJ and not take the behind the wheel test. I have tried to reason with him about safety, etc. He need to establish residency to get his FL license - 6 months... so I've got a little time. Any ideas on how to persuade him to do what's right. He is doing so much better now, he might pass the behind the wheel test. I am not comfortable with him driving without passing that test.

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At the moment Dad is not wanting to accept the loss of driving, this big loss to his independence.

You have time as you say - good. A lot can happen in 6 months. Dad may get used to Taxi/Uber/Senior bus & adjust well to not driving. Especially if living in a senior friendly area - many will be similar. So wait & see.

Your profile mentions your Mother has Vascular Dementia - so you know about that. Be aware the risk of VD is increased with stroke. Memory can be good - but it can sneak up in other areas like planning, judgement & spacial awareness (& you need all those for driving).

Is it IL or AL he is moving to?
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When I moved to Florida, I had to hand over my valid NY license.

If your Dad doesn’t have a valid license to hand over, wouldn’t he have to take a test in FL?
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VeronicaB Oct 2021
Unfortunately, when he had the stroke in NJ, they said they expected a full recovery and did not take his license. I just added him and his car to my insurance today. We need his car when my sis is helping as she has a 2 seater. No issue adding him soooo despite the fact that he failed the test, NJ did not restrict his license. He has a brand new NJ license to hand over.
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We moved to Florida. Mom has not driven for years now due to VD. Thank you for those suggestions. I appreciate it and will look into them
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You need to inform the FL licensing authorities yourself. Otherwise you will be a party to his very foolish course of action, which leaves you little choice: tell him if there's any corner cutting, you rat (proudly, with your head held high).

Tell him not to ruin his chances of resuming his normal life by going too fast too soon. If he does things by the book then God willing he'll be back on the road, legal, and above all safe for himself and others.
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VeronicaB Oct 2021
You are right Countrymouse - I need to be the rat. LOL Thank you He is often going too fast too soon and then has a set back. Totally blames himself. I'll remind him of that.
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We moved to Florida. Mom has not driven for years now due to VD. Thank you for those suggestions. I appreciate it and will look into them
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Florida. Mom is not driving - has not for years. Thank you for your insight
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DO NOT have him on your insurance! You're opening yourself up to an unbelievable level of liability, especially if he decides to blow off the whole license thing and drive anyway. If he has a valid NJ license, he can drive now, so you're really taking a huge chance.

Aside from the obvious "you might kill a child" argument, Dad could lose everything in one good injury or wrongful death lawsuit. (So could you with him on your insurance.) Plus, if your insurance company finds out you've deceived them in any way, they won't cover you and will cancel your policy.

In short, it's your duty to inform Florida that Dad needs to be thoroughly tested before any license is issued, and his doctor should also be notified and asked to OK his driving (or not).
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I live in NJ. I would check that license and make sure its not an ID. NJ licences and IDs look alot alike. The licence# will still be the same. My GS had a licence, for health reasons, had to stop driving and received an ID and the numbers stay the same.

I can't believe he failed and they would reissue him a valid license.

I think Fla would be strict about seniors and driving. I think my MIL had to have her eyes checked every so often when she lived in Fla.
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rovana Oct 2021
I don't understand why NJ did not pull the license. Don't they have rules about disqualifying medical conditions? The NH thought he would recover? Are they traffic safety experts? If he failed NJ DMV test, then why isn't invalidating the license mandatory?
Sounds like he is in FL and wants to take advantage of the ignorance of the FL DMV about what happened in NJ. Not knowing the whole story, FL just might be fooled - I don't know their requirements about age and behind the wheel test. But under the circumstances the OP described I believe she should by all means prevent dad from being licensed to drive.
A friend had this kind of situation with her MIL. MIL had unexplained unconsciousness but was treated in NV - she lived across the state border in CA. This would be required to be reported to the CA DMV who would pull her license, But the NV docs did not bother to report to CA so my friend was faced with a nightmare battle to get a very dangerous driver off the road. She did manage to do it before anyone was killed. There are all kinds of reporting "holes" in the system.
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This may sound harsh, but please consider reporting him to the police and DMV in Florida. Ask them to require he take the written test and behind the wheel test. If he can not pass in Florida, he will be safe and so will the other people on the road.
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rovana Oct 2021
Thank you! Thank you! I believe you have saved some innocent lives. By all means report to the FL DMV. A driver's license is a privilege not a right and the safety of innocent people is truly more important than dad's feelings.
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i agree with you. What if he kills someone or their child…. Or himself?? He’s being selfish asking you to lie for him . Sorry…. Just say NO
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You certainly have your hands full. From your profile, you state that you moved your parents into your home 6 months ago. How is that working out?

You've gotten great advice from others about NOT allowing your father to get a FL license and to take him OFF your insurance.

I hope you didn't give up a job to be the fulltime caregiver for your parents!
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Have you consulted with an elder law attorney? There are many things you should check out in terms of YOUR liability with them living with you. Maybe dad would listen to an attorney.
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When my Dad was alive he was legally blind but still thought he could drive. Because he could see shadows. I tried everything to persuade him to stop finally out of frustration I told him if he got in the car and drove again I would call the police and have him arrested for endangering the welfare of others. He didn’t speak yo me for a while but he never drove again.
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Personally I would tell Florida DMV if it was my family member. He does not need to know you did it. Tell him the previous state notifies Florida….and maybe they will..When I moved to Virginia they had my NYS info…
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--IF he's amenable to discussing it...Can you bring it up as slowed reaction time--perhaps he technically can 'drive' a car, but maybe he could understand that he cannot react as quickly as he needs to?
--If you've established care, have his provider pull the license and tell him 'no more'. If he hasn't established care in FL, now's the time to do it and slip a note to the provider outlining your concerns before the visit starts.
--If no luck there, yes, report him to the DMV. Does the DMV website have anything to offer about something like this? It can't be that uncommon...
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Pretty sure he will have to tell Florida he was in NJ and take a test. I simply took mom's car to be serviced and didn't bring it back. She takes cabs now or the senior bus when she feels she can't wait for my son or I to take her someplace. We do all the grocery shopping.
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VeronicaB, it is not rational for him to think he can drive safely when it was already proven by his failing the NJ test, therefore please don't waste your breath trying to "discuss" anything with him.

I had to report my elderly aunt who is a FL resident. I had her driver's license number and other info. I reported it online (anonymously) and wrote a letter with specific info outlining why she should no longer be driving. In her case she was sent a letter to appear at the DMV to retake tests. My idiot cousin drove her to the appointment. When she failed the eye exam right off the bat they asked her how she got there, and said her nephew drove her. They did not re-issue her license and to this day she and her co-pilot sister do not know who reported her...and they are still angry about it! My aunt not only had double-vision, but triple vision!

In another instance, my elderly uncle (93) was driving himself and his cancer-survivor wife in the late afternoon and he went through a red light and was t-boned, which killed his wife and dog. Luckily the victims in the other car were not seriously hurt. His children could have reported him prior or removed his car but were cowards.

You are in the moral and ethical position of knowingly allowing an impaired person to drive and you are in the best position to prevent him. Please do it. Remove his car so he won't be tempted to drive it. Don't tell him this is what you plan to do or when you will do it, it will just cause more drama than necessary. Remove the car and tell him it's in the shop for large, expensive repairs. Tell him whatever "therapeutic fib" is necessary to keep the peace as long as possible.

You can cover over the loss by arranging rides for them through services or friends, neighbors, relatives or hiring a companion aid from an agency. Please do the right thing, even though it will feel hard. You having to face the family of someone he hurt, maimed or killed would be way harder.
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It's not all about him, what he wants. It's about his safety AND the safety of so many others. About five years ago, a good friend of mine was hit head on and he died at the scene. His wife was injured but survived. The other driver was 93 and just drifted over the center line in the last seconds before impact. A couple seconds is all it takes. He also died at the scene. Two months ago, my neighbor decided he was going to drive to Texas, a trip of more than a thousand miles. He was a stroke survivor. His trip ended just four miles from his house. His car left the road and slammed into a dirt embankment. He died at the hospital. My point here is he would be selfish with a total disregard for the safety of others by wanting you to lie so he can drive. Of course you won't lie about his failed test because you don't want to feel the guilt if your Dad injuries or kills someone else and himself. You didn't mention his age but you did say he was doing much better. Is he doing much better since he failed in NJ? Can a doctor help with an opinion? And how is he at home or shopping, as in good balance, clarity of thought. Lots of people recovery extremely well from a stroke. If you are thinking he might very well pass a new test, well maybe he can. But to me it all gets back to not only his safety, but others. I had this conversation with my sister who realized a couple of years before she went to assisted living that she might be having issues. She voluntarily stopped driving at age 74 after she called a neighbor over to see why her car would not go into reverse. She hadn't started it yet.
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I believe he would not be able to drive the car to go take the test . Someone would have to take him...refuse. Also I think that the DMV report would show up from NJ and he would not be able to take it anyway.
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I respect anyone telling you that safety is important. It is. Someone will not like this post, but we all need to be able to share perspectives.

Give your Dad your own driving test in a big empty parking lot somewhere.
Maybe his recovery is miraculous! Driving is a memory skill like riding a bicycle, however more detailed and nuanced. That means if all those functions work, and he was a good driver before, and all those necessary brain functions are healed and can be demonstrated to function, then maybe he can drive better than most of the yayhoos doing stupid stuff on the road. We shoot for perfection when driving, but the grace of God keeps us alive, because no one is a perfect driver though many are close too.

He wants to drive. Maybe he has asked himself the same questions about is it safe? Safety is ABSOLUTELY IMPORTANT, but so is it also important to not throw someone on the "Done" heap. We could all take a moment and put ourselves in the position of the person with the challenge(s). That's really what I'm saying. Of course don't lie. Maybe you don't have that option anyway.

You've got a little time. You don't have to decide today.
Prayer for you and your Dad.
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rovana Feb 2022
Unless you live in a very rural area, the big empty parking lot is just not accurately reflecting the issue of reacting to other drivers and what they do. I think that is why so many teenagers are accident prone - they confuse the physical skill of driving with the very essential ability to anticipate and react to other drivers.
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Idk if what my brother and I did was the best way to go about addressing that same situation, but we told Dad (who was 88 with AD) that his hip doctor (his most recent surgery at that time) forbid him from driving and was unable to change that due to state regulations. Dad was really chapped and demoralized b/c it’s a huge loss of independence, but he accepted it. Neither I nor my brother wanted to be the bad guy. We remained supportive and showed Dad other means available to get places. He wasn’t thrilled, but accepted it. We also sold his car so he could get top dollar for it- or that’s what we told him to make that happen. Dad always wanted to get a good deal! A bit deceitful, but necessary. Dad couldn’t look backward, wasn’t aware like he should be and was to the point of endangering himself & others behind the wheel. At that point it’s not about feelings, it’s about responsibility and safety! Good luck!!
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Bless you, I know how you feel, I was constantly asking dad to give up driving, little did I know that he'd had strokes - he never showed any signs of them - they were in the balance center of his brain. Dad finally agreed to give up driving but but complained that I made him quit for the next couple of years.

I agree with the others - until he gets his license the hard way take him off your insurance.

It's hard to give up driving for some - a loss of independence and another blow to their self esteem. You've got some time to work with him about driving. After the time is up see where things stand. Let him know its not him you're worried about (you know he is a safe drive); its about the other drivers that you are worried about (even if the statement isn't exactly true).

Good Luck.
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Take away the keys and get rid of his car. End of story.
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I had a stroke 3 years ago and another one in January of this year. I didn't pass the stroke test the first time. I was angry. See if there is a rehab center that your dad can go to so that he can get his reflexes back. My husband told me it was just temporary and if I went to physical therapy and occupational therapy and got my license back in 3 months. Whatever you do don't let him drive. If he kills someone he will never be able to forgive himself. Good luck!
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Call D.M.V. in Florida and tell them his falure and his intentions. If he can not produce a current lisense they will have to test him. He currently has a medical reason to terminate his lisence and they should have access to that,and reject his application. They will tell him if he is stopped without a license He will be arrested due to past suspension of license. If he drives without a license and has a accident you will be a "willing participant" by not "reporting to Fla. D.M.V. You will be subject to Florida laws because you witheald his criminal intent.
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Dear VeronicaB, I very much liked Beatty’s idea that “A lot can happen in 6 months. Dad may get used to Taxi/Uber/Senior bus & adjust well to not driving.” Can you persuade your dad by pretending that he only needs to use those services until he is physically better and until he knows your town better? Tell him to take Uber, Lyft, taxi or bus to his appointments as he watches the route carefully until he knows Jupiter like the back of his hand, then maybe he can drive. Jupiter’s senior bus fare is $.75, a great deal!

Please make sure you stop your dad’s driving days before tragedy occurs. So many of us have gone through the identical situation and have sympathy, but don’t forget, no matter how well your dad improves from his stroke right now, the harsh truth is that you can’t stop his downward trajectory due to aging.

At some point dad’s driving will get worse and worse, and if you haven’t already stopped his driving, an accident will destroy your life as the insured. As MJ1929 pointed out, if there’s an accident and your insurance company realizes you deceived them as to your dad’s driving ability, they won’t cover an accident. The injured party or bereaved relatives will come after you monetarily, and almost assuredly win. Your personal life and future earnings are way more important than your dad’s unhappiness at not being able to drive himself.
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My father had a very bad stroke in 2000 and never recovered functional use of his right arm or leg, despite this he was determined to lead as normal a life as possible and took his driving test in rush hour traffic in the city and passed! He continued driving for many years until his death several years later. I must say we were all very concerned for his and others' safety when he insisted on driving but looking back I'm so glad he was able to as it gave him so much independence and pleasure. It was a tough test but he prepared himself for it and we were told he passed with flying colours! He was 75.

I know every case is different but maybe you should give him a second chance especially as you say he is making such a good recovery. Hope he continues to improve.
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Tell Fl. about the N.J. test. This is not about him "wanting to drive", but public safety. How will you feel if an accident occurs, and someone dies...???
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Tell him that at his age Florida is going to know he had a drivers license before and will search for a driving record/license before they issue one in Florida. Better to tell the truth than get caught in a lie. Or set up the appointment for him and tell Florida that he needs a behind the wheel test when he comes in. Then all you have to do is say, I called to set up the appt and they require a behind the wheel test.

You might also tell him that getting insurance without passing a test (after failing one) won't be possible. He has to pass the driving test and has to have insurance to drive.
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Someone helped me with this…. Your dad is concerned about how he will get around without driving. I started having my dad use Uber and Lyft. It worked well. I had to lock the car so he was unable to drive and I eventually sold the car. (I have a Power of Attorney). Good luck.
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Geaton777 Oct 2021
This is only a solution if the senior has no cognitive problems. Even county-funded ride services won't take anyone with memory or cognitive issues by themselves. Uber and Lyft drivers are under the assumption that their clients are mentally competent people. It would be unsafe and unethical to burden those drivers with an impaired passenger and make them responsible for their safety.
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