My 91 year old father is trying to care for my mom with dementia. We are butting heads. Suggestions?

Fellow only child here. BTDT. Dad has no perspective outside himself anymore and never will again. It’s a sign of cognitive change. Thank God you have carers there! Maybe he needs a day program to occupy some of his hours. A men’s group. Start making plans for him to no longer drive and everything that will change. Do have him evaluated. Tee up your concerns with his doc in advance so doc is in on it. Tell him it’s to keep benefits and don’t have all the answers - remember you are the “child”!. “I don’t know dad. Insurance called & said to do this by end of the month. I didn’t ask any questions - you know how those insurance people speak gibberish.” Then change the subject. Setup things for your future administrative convenience with an eldercare attorney. Come back with more questions. This site got me through a years-long journey with my mom.

I think using the CNAs for your mom has taken away his purpose in life. He has nothing else important to think about. My 100-yr old aunt in FL cares for her 97-yr sister w/dementia. My mom (their sister) says if the 97-yr old passes first my aunt will shortly follow because caring for her gives her life purpose and meaning. I agree.

Also, because you've stated your Dad seems to have forgotten about your schedule and is overreacting to things, he probably is struggling with cognitive issues and should maybe have a test by his doc. You can no longer interact with your "old dad". He is being replaced by a "different dad" and you need to remember this as you are speaking with him and he is being "illogical". You can't logic him back to his old self. May you have peace in your heart through this journey.

Now iot is Time to Place the Carrot over the Noses of the Stubborn Mules and lay down whatever Rules you are Coming up with to Free up your Time. He has Demetria that will only Worsen, Maybe eventually Alzhemier's, You never know. Get Advice from a Social Worker too. This situation never Gets Better, My Angel.

1. Your father is what I call a ''helicopter'' carer. Always hovering, rarely has any down time. It sounds to me as if he has lost confidence in his own capabilities. Perhaps it is time for him to see a geriatrician to check for mild cognitive impairment at the least, early dementia at the worst. My mother lost all her confidence and eventually it was discovered this was the case with her.
2. This is a ridiculous situation. There are professional carers in the house so there is absolutely no reason why he has to always be there at the same time. Is there any way you could get him to believe the carers have ''secret women's business'' to attend to with your mother, and that he is stopping your mother from participating in that business? Here in Australia, the utterance of those 3 words usually sends men scurrying, ditto for women when it is secret men's business. At least that should allow you to focus on your work during business hours.
3. You are allowing yourself to jump to attention when your father calls. This is called guilt. It is easier said than done, but for your own sanity you need to be unavailable - and stay unavailable - despite his pleas or attempts to guilt you into action. Let the ambulance sort out all the issues. If he has to drive, so be it. Just turn off the phone and do not respond. Do it in small doses - perhaps an hour every Tuesday becomes two then three then four hours, and so forth.
4. If all this fails, then in 1970s terms I am afraid your father must be a manipulative male chauvinist pig. Being at his beck and call is not the women's work he claims, it is straight out bloody-minded laziness and disrespectful of your needs. He made his bed, now he has to lie in it.

I know you didn't mean it like this, but: you say your father knows that you're unavailable every Tuesday until 1pm, but then every Tuesday like clockwork he calls you in a panic to demand something.

Um. In what sense are you unavailable if you're answering your Dad's panic-stricken phone calls?

BE unavailable! Let the CNAs know that if there's a genuine emergency *they* can text you, but don't answer your father's calls. Change your settings so that your father's calls have a different ringtone and you'll know which ones to dismiss.

Panic is the word. Your father is very afraid for your mother and he wants you holding his hand all the time because you are the next most important person and he wants you there in a huddle with the two of them. No substitute accepted!

That doesn't mean it's necessary or helpful for you to comply with his every request. But instead of butting heads, say "yes" and then carry on with your original plan regardless - i.e. reassure him, and then do the sensible, practical thing anyway.

E.g. with the meds. You knew when they were actually needed (bedtime). You knew when it was sensible to pick them up (after the traffic had died down). Dad only knew that he wanted them in the house, right now, where he could see them so that he could stop worrying - with his poor heart going pit-a-pat the whole time - that there'd be some snag about their collection.

You had quite a lot of options there. Would your father be physically able to get to the pharmacy? - while the CNAs were there, he could have done it himself. "No, sorry, I won't be able to get them until about six. If you want them straight away, go now while the ladies are there to keep an eye on mother."

Or, "Yes, Dad, I will collect them at six o'clock in good time for mother's bedtime. It's all arranged with the pharmacist, I don't think the px will be ready 'til then." The bits to emphasise are the "yes" and the "it's all arranged." Focus on the reassurance.

Try to spot the pure emotional blackmail - "don't you CARE????" - and don't give it a moment's thought. Never criticise your father when he's only afraid, so don't retaliate or get into an argument about it, but try not to react to silly accusations.

You've put me in mind of a fight I had with my mother when I was driving her car, with her in the passenger seat and Daughter 2 in the back. The car's fuel gauge has six blocks. Mother's habit was to refuel whenever it got down to three blocks (with about 200 miles in the tank). The gauge flicked down to three, she wanted to stop for fuel, we were ten miles from home, I didn't want to stop, mother started bleating with anxiety about it, I stood firm, on this went for several minutes until Daughter 2 piped up from the back: "can we just get the f***ing fuel, please!"

Mother and I both clammed up and I stopped at the next service station, so in that peace and quiet followed her intervention D2 was correct. Moral: pick the right battles :)

Thinking ahead, though. How sustainable is your parents' situation, even with the good care, would you say? What are the next steps?

Tell your father that you CANNOT jump to his every command as your mother is being well cared for with the CNAs you have in place.
Maybe your father can NO LONGER care for your mother if this is how he acts? Not a qualified caregiver?

Could you & Dad go out for lunch and have a heart to heart talk about everything he's going through/feeling? Find out why he isn't he comfortable with the CNA's, try to understand his fears. Sounds like he may be feeling overwhelmed, anxious and insecure, but too proud to admit it. Acknowledge his dedication to mom's condition/care with some verbal reassurance of " I know how much you love mom and want the best for her", but you need to take care of yourself too."
Setting boundaries while CNA around, is a good idea to help Dad accept arrangements you put in place.
Best wishes for all of you!

My mom was in a similar boat as your dad. She was caring for my dad on her own before I realized how bad it was for her. She's now in care and has what I think of as a bit of PTSD. She has a lot of anxiety about everyone's health. even if I only have a cold. She is afraid of losing the people she relies on for care.

Taking an antidepressant has helped her immensely. She has been on Xanax but her doctor wants her to reduce it because of risk of falls. So far, her anxiety is still very low while we slowly reduce the Xanax dose. She has mild dementia too.

So, so far, the antidepressant has been invaluable for her and me. Just wanted to share that with you in case it helps you.

It sounds like you have an amazing home health team and that they are encouraging you to set limits with your dad. I think you should really follow their advice and their lead on this concerning boundaries. I would recommend therapeutic support for you with someone who truly understands how difficult caregiving and family dynamics are. Maybe try a local socialworker/caremanger who specializes in this area. they might be able to give you referrals.

best wishes

I am amazed at the older people caring for older people. I’m also amazed at grandchildren caring for grandparents. I don’t think either is a good idea.

Your Mom has turned into a project for him at his age. He is aging out and he wants to feel important so he's your Mom's watchdog/caregiver too even if you have caregivers coming in. It turns into a family group project. Even after my Mom went to the nursing facility, when I walked into my Dad's house, the first thing out of his mouth was a stern "have your been to the nursing home to check on your mother?" The nursing home was in one direction from my house and their home was in another! I retired a little early to move back near them and bought a home 3 1/2 miles from theirs. I will tell you that you will learn to tell "little white lies" or your Dad will drive you insane. He still sees you as a child he tells what to do instead of the responsible adult with decision making capabilities and judgement, no matter how old you are. I also went on Mom and Dad's appointments. I went to buy any medical equipment for them like walkers or wheelchairs before Mom went to the nursing home including a furniture store that sold the lift recliners with a remote. Gosh, I remember all of this you are talking about and my Dad passed in 2016 and Mom last year in 2018. Learn to call the caregiver back after he calls and how to tell the little white lie or you will end up so pulled & stressed that you will get sick. I ended up in the cardiologist's office getting an echocardiogram for irregular heartbeat and he said it was STRESS and for me to pick & choose what is important and necessary with my parents. Good luck to you.

Don't feel guilty. You have no reason to feel guilty. Our parents are our parents and I'm guessing they were a bit demanding in their younger years as well, you probably either laughed it off or ignored it at that time. Now, however, you are older and have more responsibilities of your own and the demands for your time no matter how small, are significant in their own right. My husband is dealing with similar issues with his own parents who have TWO caregivers yet demand he come to their home every single morning and cook for them or they don't eat because it's too hard. Their caregivers will cook for them and they will eat those meals, but the caregivers don't get their till 10am and aren't there on Tuesday evenings or Sundays, so my husband does all their errands, shopping, cooking, etc. for them between caregiver visits. Things the caregivers are perfectly willing to do but my in-laws tell them "Don't do that, George will do it." It's very frustrating and it's a losing battle, so my best advice to you is remind your father that the caregivers are being PAID money to do those things and they get the same pay even when he doesn't let them do the things they were hired to do. That may get him thinking. It does't seem to matter to my in-laws, but hopefully, your father will think twice about the money. The other advice, is to breathe, do the best you can and know that you have done the best you can and it is not on you if he feels you should be doing more. Simply tell him: "Dad, I wish I could do more for you both at this time, but I have a job and family and home to take care of and I'm giving you every moment I can to supplement what your caregivers are there to do for you. Please help ME out and let them do the jobs they were hired for so I don't feel so pressed to give up more to be able to do more of their work for you." Then take a deep breath, give him a hug and move forward. Good luck to you all. It's so frustrating when we want to be there 110% for our parents and can't. They raised us to have families and homes and jobs and responsibilities. Remind them that your success is thanks to their support and encouragement and it limits your free time.

Joanne
Louisville, KY

Try the old guilt trip: fib and tell your Dad you got in trouble at work for all of the personal phone calls. That will get him to stop calling! He would never do anything to put your job in danger, since he is so proud of you.

Dad is in desperate need of more support than just free time. His whole life is about Mom who is slipping through his fingers. His life does not have joy or anything to hope for than the loss of his life focus and the relentless progression of his own aging and decline. Perhaps there's a way to distract his by creating positive, structured and social activities for him at a senior center or church, or a therapist or group support. The craziness can make one crazy. Tough one.

Wow, your dad is a master manipulator and can he throw a guilt trip.

I think that I would be calling him out when he says his manipulative nasty comments. "Don't you care about your mother?" "Ya know dad, I am done with you questioning my love for my mother based on jumping when you call, so stop! You promised to take care of her, do you not love her because you won't drive the 5 minutes to get her meds?" Turn his behavior back on him when he pulls that garbage. Tell him when he is crossing lines, it is okay to tell him to stop. It can be done softly and firmly, it doesn't have to be confrontational or harsh.

I really hope that you can get them in an AL, he is obviously in over his head, but tearing you up doesn't help the situation. Ordering you about makes him feel like he is in control and he is not, but based on his viewpoint you will never hear him say that, he will continue to exert control by ordering you about, so only you can stop jumping when he barks his orders.

My dad throws a perfect imitation of a 3 year old tantrum when we are battling this behavior, when you aren't sucked in it is really entertaining to watch where they will go to manipulate.

Hugs to you, this is never easy.

Your father is dealing the best he knows how, cut him a little slack.

HOWEVER, it could be time for him to be put on something like Zoloft - talk to the HomeHealthCare workers and ask them for assistance with your father. They see a lot more of what you are dealing with than the average person. I feel they will gladly offer you advice if you only ask for it.

My dad is a world class worrier, and his doctor did him the kindness about a year ago of putting him on Zoloft. It’s a low dose, my dad calls it his “attitude medicine” and it’s really been a help in calming the anxiety. Sounds like your dad needs this help, and you need to break away from answering the phone so much. That’s not easy, but it’s feeding his anxiety by participating in the constant stress

Please get him evaluated by his doctor. He sounds like he has anxiety issues. He may also have a touch of dementia as well. 75% of people 75 and over have some form of dementia - and it gets to be a higher percentage as the age increases. Meanwhile, you have the right people in place to care for mom - and dad. Please remind him to allow them to perform their jobs. You may have to create a system with the caregivers. Let his calls go to voice mail during your work day. Answer their calls only during that time.

This sounds so much like my 93 year old father's anxiety before he went on anti-anxiety medications. He used to be the primary caregiver for his second wife, not allowing much help from caregivers. We went through every caregiver from the agency because it was so bad with him not allowing the care people to do what they're supposed to do and him trying to keep control. You must set boundaries for yourself. Don't let him do this to you, especially when you know that care is there. Don't answer the phone. Turn down the sound/ringer when you know care is there. We had to eventually turn off the ringer altogether! His doctor needs to know his behavior so he can be put on medication for his anxiety. I can't say this will totally fix this but it should help calm him down as it did for my dad. His wife passed 4 years ago. Because he was so caught up in her care for so many years, he has no life and enjoys little. We finally got him to assisted living but continues to talk about going back to his house (which is not safe for him at this point.) Good luck and take care of YOU!

I would have a meeting with your Dad and explain to him how things are going to be and that you have arranged for Care of your mom and he can stay with her or not, is really up to him, but you have a life and then let him know what you are willing to do and then follow thru.

You should tell him to stop should let him know he can call you once a day, either in the morning or Evening to let you know how things are going.
Let the Home Health Care call you if there is an Emergency.
Twell your Father that having your mom go to the ER is a lot of unnecessary stress on her and let the Nurse decide when it is an Emergency.

You can also set up a camera as I did in my 95 yr old Father's Home to see for yourself what goes on.

Just don't answer his calls when the the CNA is there, and you know Mom's being taken care of.

There is nothing wrong with a little fibbing sometimes,, like the battery on my phone died, or I left in my car by accident... Or my work has a new rule about no phones at work?

I agree it sounds like your dad may be exhibiting some early dementia, I know anxiety has been a big problem for my mom. But that doesn't mean it can't be worked with, talking to his PCP is a great step but helping him direct some of that pent up anxiety and giving him some boundaries to work with, training him may be as important for both of you. You need to let yourself off the hook too. Fighting with him is likely to make him dig in more rather than convince him of the sense you are making so if you can step back when you feel yourself getting frustrated with him and think about his reaction as something he doesn't really have control over, it isn't just that he isn't going to change, he simply may not have any sense of how unreasonable he's being or ability to reel it in.

The next time he has something that "needs to be done now" he wants you to do just tell him you aren't able to right now but you are sure (CNA) can take care of it and after all it's what she's paid for! Maybe going along with his belief only you as her daughter can take care of this and that by dropping everything and doing it is only reinforcing that. He is comfortable with you, trusts you and knows Mom does too and maybe as much as he likes the CNA's he hasn't gotten comfortable relying on them yet and needs a little help making that adjustment. "I can take care of that at the end of the day Dad but if you feel it needs to be done sooner why don't you ask Sally. I'm also wondering if perhaps his world has gotten a bit too small since your mom's decline, all kinds of reasons he might not feel right leaving her but finding him something he enjoys either outside the house or inside (stamps, woodworking, cards with the guys...) something to put some of his focus on instead of all on your mom.

The other thing you could and probably should do is take a long weekend away for yourself but also so you aren't available and he has no choice but to rely on the CNA's who of course always have a direct line to you but if dad calls with nothing from them you can let it go to VM and say you were at the pool or hiking or something. You may be as attached to caring for them as he is to having you do it, I know it can be very hard to let go a little after a big medical event with mom that has had us consumed 24/7 with her for weeks or months. A break now that your parents have caregivers in place you are all happy with might help both you and your dad break some of that cycle.

He should get out of the house when the CNA is there. Is there a senior center where he can go play cards or something?

My first thought was that your Dad may be going down the dementia highway himself here! It may only be anxiety he's exhibiting, but boy howdy, that's some level of anxiety!!

If I were you, I'd tell him I can talk on the phone twice a day; once at X time and again at X time. After a month, I'd cut it down to once per day. All the other calls from him need to go unanswered, straight to voice mail. He'll get the hint eventually. Leave word with the CNAs that they are to call you if anything urgent happens to mom. That way, you will KNOW that all the other calls coming in from dad are just worry calls and nothing urgent.

As far as "This is your mother don't you care" and this is 'Women's work" is concerned, tell your father Gee Sorry Dad, I have a JOB to Do Here and I work from 8 am - 5 pm each day & CANNOT be Disturbed. Period. That is what I tell my mother so she knows I'm not at her beck & call all the time.

It's good that you're looking into Assisted Living for both of them. Try to find a place that also has a memory care section/building as well, in case mom needs to go there, that way dad can either move with her or stay in their room at the regular ALF. Most couples do not live together in Memory Care if only one is suffering from dementia.

I can tell you the best thing I ever did, especially as an only child, was to place both of my folks in Assisted Living after dad fell and broke his hip in 2014. He wound up passing away in 2015 but my mother was developing dementia and there was NO WAY I'd be taking her in to live with me, so she's been very well cared for this whole time in the ALF and now in Memory Care.

Try to get through to dad that mom does not require micro-management. The CNAs are there to care for her, and if there is an urgent problem, they will be the first to call 911; that HE does not have to do their jobs FOR them. Sending mom over to the ER every time she has a blood pressure fluctuation is going to create a TRUE crisis in short order!! Sigh.

Best of luck!!!

I would have to agree with TNtechie. Your dad's behavior sounds like it is anxiety driven. Anti-anxiety drugs should help. Your dad sounds like he is overwhelmed with caring for your mom. Plus, he is probably full of fear about losing your mom. Perhaps you should talk to your dad and maybe you both can come up with a plan on who does what and when. Men feel better when they have an action plan! Also telling him that you will be with him through this no matter what happens. Give him some reassurance that he is not alone. This should help with his fears.

Just try to set some boundaries; let him know mom is in good hands with the CNA; come up with a action plan, and give him some reassurance that you are there for your mom and for him! Perhaps some anti-anxiety meds.

Just my 2 cents!
Good luck!

Your father's behavior sounds like more like anxiety than willful actions to me. When I look back now I realize anxiety was behind my mother's actions when she first started calling me during working hours over stuff we could have discussed that evening. This was the first real sign of my mother's cognitive issues which were diagnosised as MCI a couple of years later. Like your father, my mother was caring for a spouse with dementia. Consider discussing a mild anti-anxiety medication for your father with his PCP. The stress he is under caring for your mother, even with in home help, can be reason enough to cause anxiety at his age.

Your dad is pushing himself too hard. He is an old man caring for an old woman that he loves very much.

You can’t keep up with his demands. They probably both need to be placed somewhere given their age. Stop stalling. Stop arguing with him. You have had a good relationship until now because of stress related to caregiving. So eliminate the source of stress and go back to being their daughter.

I know it’s hard. I cared for my mom in my home for just about 15 years and my mom and dad in their home for many years. So I get it. I can’t imagine being in your dad’s shoes and doing it in his 90’s!

It’s time for him to have a break from caregiving! This is entirely too much for all of you. I don’t care if he has a CNA at home it is too much anxiety for him to endure around the clock. The CNA can’t do as much as an entire staff can. Please place them both asap. Or at least your mom so you and dad can get a break.

Your dad may be sexist. My whole family was and lucky me, I am the only daughter! I’m being sarcastic of course, I was anything but lucky! My point is that you are not going to change his behavior at this point in his life. You can change his atmosphere though. One thing at the time. Step by step you can be proactive.

If I could change anything I would go back and instead of being lost and complaining, I would listen to the advice given to me on this forum which was to let go! I am telling you because you have the opportunity to make positive changes now.

"This is women's work?". Does dad think it's 1919, not 2019? Did your mom wait on him hand and foot when she was able? Some men are 'babied' their whole lives, by their moms and then by their wives-- prevalent in his generation, I guess. He's expecting you to pick up where your mom has had to leave off, doing the work she used to do, because all women are innate caretakers.

He does expect you to be at his beck and call. It's good you've put your foot down sometimes! It doesn't look like a balance will be feasible if this is his attitude. It's not okay for him to pull manipulative guilt trips like "don't you care about your mother?". When it really has nothing to do with you caring about your mother. What he means is "Don't you want to help me the second I tell you?".

I'm guessing they're both resistant to AL. Since dad keeps calling, suggest to him maybe taking care of mom is too much for him to handle, and maybe it's time they moved into AL. He won't like that suggestion, but... inform him that the constant calls, not letting CNAs help, and panicking at the slightest thing makes you think he is in over his head, and you will check out some AL facilities (since he's so busy, you know). He will likely freak out, but... this can be an incentive to stop the antics, or at least tone it down.

Next time he wants something RIGHT NOW that either he or the CNA can handle, tell him you can't. No explanation needed. "I can't right now." Can offer to come by at a time that works for you.

Boundries. Don't answer the phone when u know aids are there. Tell Dad they are the pros. He needs to rely on them.

Explain that the med was not an emergency. If it was, you would have dropped everything. But he needs to realize that you can't just drop everything. Really, u did good telling him u would pick it up when u went out.

I would also tell him that as ur Moms husband it is his responsibility to care for Mom. That you are there for him and Mom but as back up. There is no such thing as "womans work" anymore.

Wow, dad is really pushing you hard. It's time for you to set some overdue boundaries. Here are a few to consider:

When he has helpers, he is not to call you. If there is a true emergency, the help can call you.

If you answer the phone while the aids are there, tell him that you can not do that and that the aid will have to do it. I suggest turning your phone off to give yourself periods of peace.

Best of luck!

You don't have to explain why you are not doing it, just simply that you are not doing it. Plain and simple. Or that you can't do it.

Talk to the aids about this so they know what to expect.

What is your dad's condition like? Is he OK? Seems like he might have some anxiety or other issues going on himself. OCD? 25 calls a day? Not OK.