Follow
Share

My grandmother was killed in a car accident so we had to abruptly place my grandfather into an assisted living center. He only has medicare and it won't cover extended care; therefore, medicaid is the other option. He has had stocks in his name for over 30 years that he doesn't even touch as he has parkinsons and is in a wheelchair. We have placed everything he has into a family trust except for his stocks. Medicaid won't approve him because he technically has "assets". He has no income. What are our options?

LOL “probationary period”, that’s what is imo ahem a softening term, like “reaching out to you”, or “challenges we face” that get used to have you do or buy into something that has lots more serious consequences than your led to believe.

Medicaid places a penalty on gifting or transfers. It’s basically a fixed math problem. Your state has a set daily Medicaid room & board reimbursement rate. This is the penalty divisor figure. So say dad transferred / gifted 100k of assets to form that Family Trust & your state pays the facility $178.90 R&B. That’s 559 DAYS transfer penalty placed on his Medicaid eligibility. It’s not a “probationary period”, it’s total ineligibility by # of days before Medicaid will pay a penny.

Dads broke, he’s impoverished at 2k, all he’ll have is his monthly income like his SS or pension. It will fall to you to private pay whatever shortfall from his income for his AL care for 559 days or dad moves out of the AL or NH and you caregive at home till it’s beyond penalty period.

In order for a LTC Medicaid application to go forward they have to be basically impoverished with a max of 2k of nonexempt assets and mo income under your states income limit (most abt $2,100).

Its good you are seeing new elder law atty. I hope they are NAELA or CELA level of expertise with experience as to how Medicaid runs for your states. As others have said, the stocks he owns are assets that must be cashed out and used in a spend down for his care. He’s already in a facility, so the options of doing creative stuff financially that could benefit you & other heirs don’t exist. That ship has sailed.....⛵️🚤🚢

That Family Trust may not be Medicaid “compliant”.
& I’m gonna bet a case of Prosecco that it’s not. & if it just recently done, in haste to protect his assets, it’s going to be an issue for Medicaid.

It was - I’ll guess - done for Estate & Tax Planning not Medicaid Planning. It would imo have needed to be irrevocable & done like back in 2012 - 2013 to be beyond Medicaid look back. The $ moved by him to feed the trust he set up may be an “allowed” move of his $ as he is a part of the Trust. But Trust will not be “compliant” for his Medicaid eligibility is my guess.

Compliant basically means MEDICAID IS PRIMARY BENEFICIARY.
Yeah read that again, Medicaid is beneficiary first & foremost.
Not you or your siblings.

Its good you are seeing a new atty. & clearly ask if their experienced with Medicaid application & Estate Recovery (MERP).

Also clearly find out IF Medicaid in your state pays for AL and how. Medicaid for NH aka skilled nursing care is required dedicated funding by the feds. But Medicaid for AL is optional for states to do. If AL is done it’s via waivers and waivers usually have limited # allowed per fiscal year. It’s not unusual to have an existing waiting list for AL waiver with placement dependent on a needs assessment along with filing date. Waivers have lots of haziness, so IF an AL participates in the state waiver program, it may just be 10-20% of beds at the AL. This is why you often hear, it takes 2 years of private pay at an AL before Medicaid will pay. What is kinda means is that usually within 2 years enough of those AL waiver beds will have residents who die or move away or go into a NH thus creating an open bed within a couple of years.
Again ask atty what Medicaid & AL policy is for your state.
Helpful Answer (2)
Reply to igloo572
Report
Sendhelp Dec 1, 2018
Good Answer Igloo!
I do hope you get your case of Prosecco this year!
You deserve thanks for all of your voluntary good support of caregivers here!

I want to "be reaching out to you", considering the "challenges we face" having a loved one with a family trust. After over two years without his own belongings, living in a few different family members homes, I have come to believe the trusts are monies only for the beneficiaries, and not readily accessible to the hard working person who created the trust. Is that true?
Should we be suspicious of trusts? How did this happen that my elderly loved one was forced to live at the mercy of his ignorant children?
There, I softened it. Imo, he was made more vulnerable to exploitation because of the trust. So, I am hating trusts and wills.
(0)
Report
Buy him an electric wheelchair, a new one. And an electric scooter.
In other words, spend down the stocks.
Helpful Answer (1)
Reply to Sendhelp
Report

If the trust was done within the five year lookback, it may have to go to his care. The stocks will have to be cashed in and used for his care.
Helpful Answer (1)
Reply to JoAnn29
Report

Lunabi, Yes, his stocks need to be sold to pay for his care. He will not be able to qualify for Medicaid with them. And if he transfers to family, he will be penalized equal to the amount he gifted. Someone will have to come up with the cash to pay for his care.

"We just heard there's some probationary period for 5 years after stocks are gifted wherein he cannot get approved for things like medicaid. Is that true? I'll be consulting a new elder care attorney next week."

Yes, it is true. Why should taxpayers pay for his care when he has assets? If this is what your attorney told you, it is correct. Do not waste your money on another attorney.
Helpful Answer (3)
Reply to gladimhere
Report
gladimhere Dec 1, 2018
Did he have a home or other assets that were transferred to the trust? If so, that is also considered gifting and subject to penalty.
(0)
Report
Medicaid looks back Five Years yes 5 from the date of application for transfers and there is a penalty period assessed for transfers on a dollar for dollar basis during which Medicaid pays nothing and grandfather is responsible. You gifted $500 and daily Medicaid rate is $250 , well you pay two days care at facility rates. And don’t think you can hide it. You don’t impoverish elder to get state funded care by giving money to family and keeping assets. Talk to Medicaid experienced lawyer before you do anything. And the family trust I’d check to see if less than 5 years old that Medicaid considers that gifting to family if not used for grandpa care...
Helpful Answer (3)
Reply to Guestshopadmin
Report

We will be consulting a new attorney next week. And yes we have power of attorney now. Thank you for the help!
Helpful Answer (1)
Reply to luanbai
Report

He cannot hang onto his stocks and expect to get Medicaid. Medicaid is a program for the needy. Not for families who want free care and to hang onto their investments. As other posters have said consult an attorney who specializes in elder issues.
Helpful Answer (8)
Reply to UsedupDIL
Report

As Barb said consult an elder law attorney. Family trust? Did he in effect gift his stocks to the family in an attempt to keep money for family? His assets need to be spent for his care and needs prior to applying for Medicaid.
Helpful Answer (3)
Reply to gladimhere
Report
luanbai Nov 30, 2018
Thanks for the response. He would like to gift the stocks to his family (us). Everything else is in a family trust except the stocks. We just heard there's some probationary period for 5 years after stocks are gifted wherein he cannot get approved for things like medicaid. Is that true? I'll be consulting a new elder care attorney next week.
(2)
Report
See 1 more reply
Have you consulted an elder care attorney?

Does someone have Power of Attorney, which would allow them to sell the stocks so that the funds could be used for GF's care?
Helpful Answer (5)
Reply to BarbBrooklyn
Report

Ask a Question

Subscribe to
Our Newsletter