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My sister is the primary caregiver and in charge of her finances (which are plentiful) and she totally enables my mother to constantly complain about illnesses, inability to eat, everything negative. Mother is very inappropriate in social interaction and mostly refuses to go out unless it is totally for her appointments, etc. She takes no prescription meds but lots of health supplements. It has caused a great deal of friction in our family although this is nothing new! Mother has always been this way, but now it is growing worse by the day! And my sister refuses to be reasonable about ignoring some of this bad behavior. I was a former educator with an emphasis in psychology so I know about setting boundaries, not enabling, etc. I am at a loss as to how to apply what I "know" as this has become so personally frustrating. Thank you for any helpful suggestions.

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If your sister is the primary caregiver, it sounds like she is the one who needs to set boundaries with mom, but you can't make her do so. The best you can do is set boundaries and apply what you know for yourself. When the complaining gets to be too much, you can excuse yourself from the call or visit.

I would try to find ways you can support your sister as well. Ask her what would be most helpful to her. If your mom is a drama queen, the complaining and negativity can't be easy for her to deal with either. Try and approach your sister in a supportive way, rather than putting her on the defensive. Remember, you both love mom and are in this together.
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My Dad used to say,
"It was being so miserable made him happy"

He loved to moan and groan about his illness this and his illness that!
He would moan to everyone and anyone.
To be honest it gave me a bit of a break. lol At least I did not have to listen.

If your sister is coping with it (in her own way) I feel, may be, you could 'leave well enough alone'.

Saying that, I am sure she could do with some 'time out'. She must be under so much pressure.

Just make sure she knows you are there for 'her'.

Take Care and good luck
Buzzy
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Like said, maybe sister blocks it out. Some people have the ability to tune people out. And since Mom has always been this way, nothing new to sister. Its probably easier just to let Mom vent then try to change her at this point. For some reason Mom needs the attention, maybe didn't get it as a child. For you, u can set boundries. When visiting, tell her you want to have a conversation other than complaints. If she can't do that you won't visit as much.
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I agree with the other posters. Your sister may just be trying to keep the peace because she’s tired and burned out and just agreeing with Mom is easier than constantly trying to thwart her negative behavior. Psychology never worked with my mother, who was also negative and socially awkward. If you want to try your theories on Mom, why not give your sister some respite and take Mom for a week?
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The older we become, the more like ourselves we get! Your mom is pushing 90. Goodness! That is a lot of years to become set in one's ways. If she has always been Negative Nelly, it probably isn't realistic to expect to turn her into Sunshine Sally. That isn't a behavior change -- it is a personality transplant!

And your sister is what? In her fifties? Sixties? Pushing 70? She is not exactly a high school student, open to new ways. Does she have a background in psychology or teaching? Has she ever expressed a desire to learn the techniques you think she should use?

As you know, the only person whose behavior you can control in this situation is your own. By all means, use every method you can think of to try to make your interactions with Mom more pleasant for you. Just be realistic in your expectations of your mother, and also of your sister.
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Be grateful to your sister as primary care giver, unless you want to be in there instead. Perhaps she has developed skills in just ignoring the negative behaviour, which is why it isn't upsetting her. Your mother is enough to cope with, without getting upset by your sister as well.

There have been other posts about how to help the family member who is carrying the biggest care giving load. Ideas include acknowledging that they are doing just that, occasional gifts, some respite - even paying for a holiday for them while you give them some respite. It can smooth over a lot of niggles. If you swallow your criticisms and try to be 'nicer', she might be nicer to you, as well as easier to approach with your ideas.
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It sounds like you are lucky to have a sister care giver. Honestly, this sounds like your issue more than your mother's and sister's. What do you expect should happen to, or be done with, your mother? It sounds like she's faring pretty-well in old age. She has the funds to stay at home, lucky her! If she's unpleasant and difficult, and your sis is ok with, all good. Your mother won't be around forever...she's 89!
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Its tough sometimes and I can see your sisters point of view. Parents like to moan at times and who knows if its genuine or not? Sometimes it easier just to do whatever to keep them happy.

I went through it with my Dad. He'd make up things like chest pain, can't breathe etc. Of course, you've got to take it seriously. Even the ambulance people and doctors did - alas now they wont even come out because hes done it so often.

Hes even self inflicted a head injury on himself because he didnt agree with the doctor that he didnt need to be in hospital (for a chest infection). Bang head same result achieved.

But where do you draw the line? Its a tough one. At the moment, I tend to ignore after years of it. Probably not funny really but we'll find him dead one day and say "Oops he wasn't making it up this time".
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As an only child in this situation, I agree with the other posters. I also helped my three aunts, my mother's sisters, one of whom had a son on the other coast who did more to make the situation worse from afar than to help in any way, shape, or form, other than attending her funeral. Your sister needs your support to make the best of the situation with your mother. Setting boundaries is up to the person in the situation, and if your family dynamic has always been this way, that makes it even harder to change now. My mother won't change, so I learned long ago to set my own boundaries and to try to be as positive as possible. Sometimes I tune out her negativity, because with age and senile dementia, it has worsened and amplified. It's a great suggestion to give your sister some respite from it, as she is probably drained and having her own issues from internalizing and/or dealing with your mother so closely. I have a great friend who takes my mother out to Bingo each week in addition to what I do each week. My support system of family and friends run interference whenever they can (family get togethers, etc), which lightens things for me. The best way to have no regrets is to treat each other with love, respect, and dignity as best you can. Remember, when your mother passes, you want to have good relationships as a family. I wish you all the best!
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Boundaries are not an attempt to make someone do something. They are not about getting the other person to understand and comply. Boundaries are about us getting clear inside of ourselves as to what is appropriate and necessary for OUR OWN mental health, and then taking action accordingly.

If you are trying to use boundaries to make your mother or sister behave differently so it doesn’t bother YOU, then YOU are the one who is overstepping boundaries.

An important first step in developing healthy boundaries is to get acquainted with, and take ownership, of your true self. This is essential before healthy boundaries can be set and maintained. As adults, we are responsible for the decisions we make in life. We have freedom to respond, to make choices, and to limit the way others' behavior affects us. As a "free agent", we can take responsibility for our freedom by setting boundaries, or borders, between ourselves and those around us.  Some people refuse to set boundaries because they see them as selfish. Others actually use them to be selfish. Both are wrong. Boundaries are about SELF-control.

It seems like this is something you think your sister should do, but it is really what YOU should do. You have to be able to identify “your stuff” as separate from “her stuff,” and deal with your own stuff, by working on yourself.

Ask yourself why it bothers you so much that your mother is the way she is and your sister is the way she is. Then focus on what you could do to work on YOUR OWN feelings, so you can be at peace in the situation. If you need help processing those feelings, I encourage you to talk to a therapist for support.
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MaryKathleen Oct 2018
You are right on.

The only thing I can add is if Vickieanna gets tired of it, just say, "We have talked about illness or whatever for 15 minutes. Let's talk about something else".

Their is a joke about old people doing an "organ" recital.

Help your sister, give her respite. Don't worry about changing either one of them. Not your monkey, not your circus. I am sure you have read Codependent No More. Don't try to rescue, people don't appreciate it.
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You want to be helpful and try to make things lighter for your sister who is being barraged by it more than anyone. I find that our love for psychology, or awareness, or spiritual connection to Love and peace and all things fluffy could in actuality be what we ourselves need to feel more of, and become aligned with our own joy so that we do not ever look upon others. It hurts, I know, I estranged my family due to this illness, due to no one wanting to coordinate and collaborate as a threesome of sisters instead each did what they wanted, and I felt resentment that they did not spend as much time as I did actually by the elders who were mostly alone except for drop ins from professional caregivers for medical and bedridden care who came in twice a day and left within a half hour or so. I also was forbidden to go to my father's doctor to see if there were other diagnosis or missed or mistaken, diagnosis as I could watch a tv movie with him and he could follow the entire plot. Erstwhile, being smeared by my youngest as meddling and mental...yes, I said mental...so, fearful of psychology were they, let alone, thinking outside the box, definitely not into family cohesion, refusing mediation, and especially wanting to get into team meetings or lunches once in a while to build trust and learn each other's heart view of things.
It is very disheartening but you might need to see less and less of your mom. If possible, see more and more of your sister but do not mention your frustrations about her enabling, go talk to a third part professional because it will really upset her and she won't be able to see things your way. I do not know your age differences, but she may know 'another' mom, not the one you experienced.

I wish you peace of mind, and love of the situation as it is. Meditate, and take a lot of walks empty your mind and then eventually you will get it. If you have a job, buy your sister a massage therapy session once a month and be of help by accepting as is. Once my father died, I had no one left in my family that I could trust, cherish, or love. They refused to even go to lunch with me 3 years before his death, as I pleaded for a team approach to care giving. I hope this helps you, and not seem like it's a sounding board for my crap. "I got this" I had to learn to accept them and all as was and could not. No one to blame, not even me, but I learned something.
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All of the posters have good points.  Also consider, being gentle on yourself.  The most difficult "tests" are the ones we experience with those closest to us, as you already know.   It's easy to see what someone else should do in a given situation, because we aren't close to it.    Also, your mom is 89!!!! Doesn't take meds, etc.!!  Is a drama queen, yes, but SOMETHING IS WORKING for her.  She is still showing decline of some type if "she refuses to go out unless...".  Maybe she does realize what a pain in the ____ she is.  I agree with the other posters.  You might want work on strengthening the bond with your sis, who is carrying the brunt of the caregiving load.  Being in the "know" about something, is powerless if applied incorrectly.  You have time to reevaluate the relationships you have with your mom and sister, and possibly choose a different path.  Best wishes in finding peace with your family.
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I was on the other end of the spectrum for a long time. My elderly mother has a host of issues (mostly mental illness), but is physically healthy, has capacity and money to live independently (for now). For years I tried everything, ignoring it, cajoling, pleading, threatening....it was very difficult. But, my Sister was not involved because she was living across the country.

Then, Sister came back and started telling me how we had to do something, this situation wasn't OK, etc......

My response - what the (expletive) do you THINK I've been TRYING to do here all these years? Do you honestly think that YOU have a solution I haven't considered or tried?

Is it possible your sister is having these feelings too?

Of course, I also understand where you are coming from. SO many people in our extended family are HARD CORE enablers, and have contributed to Mom/her mental illness progressing over the years, when in my opinion, there would have been more love in honesty.

If I can make a suggestion - maybe try sitting down with your sister and have a conversation. Ask her why she's doing what she's doing, whether she thinks its productive, or whether she's open to talking about new strategies. You might be pleasantly surprised to find that you both are closer to being on the same page than you think.

Of course, your sister may also be completely delusional and see no problems here. In which case I would encourage you to make sure that you do what you need to do to keep your own sanity. Boundaries help, but as someone else here pointed out, boundaries are for keeping you well. They won't change Mom or Sister's behavior. And remember, boundaries can also be flexible. I've had to set boundaries with my Mom and Sister. But I've also found that I need to (or want to) change those boundaries at times - depending on what's going on with Mom and Sister. Or what's going on with me. Because the boundaries are for me, so I'm allowed to say where they are.

BUT - there are certain things I have Zero Tolerance about and I absolutely refuse to act as an enabler, or agreeing that inappropriate things are OK or "normal".

I think the most important thing I have learned in dealing with my (undiagnosed but clearly mentally ill) Mom, is that this is not question of finding the right way to talk to her or just getting to an explanation she will finally understand. Speaking logic and reason to an unreasonable or mentally ill person is like speaking French to a Russian. They might nod, but you're just not going to be understood.

I hope this is helpful. Hang in there. You are a loving and caring person, and it's so difficult when our loved ones do not want to accept help. I think you should take comfort in the fact that you are trying and that's more than a lot of people out there do. Good luck!
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I would have her evaluated with a neurologist. Those thoughts and behaviors aren't the norm. Probably has some dementia rearing it's head. It starts about 10 years before the diagnosis with the problem being the attitude, emotions and behavior.
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Do not ask "why" questions of your sister; they are accusatory and likely will not be received well. Read up about the difference between "helicopter" and "drone" caregivers; it's fascinating. Ask your sister how she is coping with all your mother's negativity. Let her talk while you actively listen. Good luck!
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Probably it’s just your sisters way of handling things. Let it go. All the degrees and experiences in the world are useless if this is the way your sister, the primary caregiver, chooses to handle the situation. It might be easier for her to listen and let mom complain about being sick than to argue with her that she’s not.
The best thing for you to do is be supportive, as your sister is taking on a tremendous burden as a caregiver, and it won’t get any easier. Sounds like mom might be craving the attention she gets from complaining, and at 89, I suppose you’re not going to get her to go out for more than an appointment.
Unfirtunately, my dad’s the same way. He goes out for an appointment, but otherwise chooses to be a recluse in his apartment, shunning all social invitations. I stopped letting it bother me. He doesn’t EVER complain that he doesn’t feel well, however, that’s nothing new for him. He’d rather avoid going to a doctor, and completely fall over and take his last breath without being in a hospital. As hard as that sounds, I have to respect his wishes....
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I knew a lady like this who took only supplements, no rx medications. My mother said that she was "bleeding internally," which is apparently something my mother got wrong and even though she could have been wrong, she held onto it. HOWEVER, this lady just passed away. SHE WAS OVER 102 YEARS OF AGE AND LIVED ALONE TILL THE LAST YEAR OF HER LIFE, when a lady moved in to take care of her.
So is it possible to get by on only supplements? Yes, absolutely.
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I am in health care and education, and have a spouse with bipolar and fibromyalgia. I know a lot about enabling and setting boundaries.
The thing is, all bets are off when it comes to elderly and some mental illnesses. You say there is no dementia, and it is the way your mother has always been.
My father was always very intelligent, and very manipulative. His behaviors intensified and we all thought it was just him getting more stubborn. Turns out it was vascular dementia even though he could pass all the tests.
I wanted all my siblings to know everything I knew about behaviors. It was over 20 years of knowledge and training and working with people. Turns out my siblings did not really want to know everything I knew.
Just saying, I am discovering people will learn what they want to, most just want your acceptance and not all your knowledge.
So I bite my tongue and let everyone just be-and love them for who they are.
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Have you suggested giving your sister a complete break, say for two weeks, while you take over the caregiving? It could be a valuable experience for everyone.
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Mom is content.
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If your mother has always been this way, you might want to research Narcissistic Personality disorder or other personality disorders.

Given the constant complaining about non-existent health issues you might put emphasis on researching histrionic personality disorder as wall as Narcissistic personality disorder of the "introverted" or "Vulnerable" variety of Narcissistic personality disorder.

The introverted and vulnerable narcissists are not showy like the traditional narcissist but the vulnerable or the introverted type love to play the martyr or use illness to control family members.

Both are often obnoxious and inappropriate when socializing with other people. The vulnerable or introverted narcissist however does not like to socialize.

Both are manipulative.

Both types often triangulate among family members by pitting one against the other.

Both types do get worse with age. It often appears as if they have dementia, even when they do not.

Sometimes however they do get dementia and that is a double whammy for the family.
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Does your sister even care about mom's complaining? Does she actually hear it? Some people can totally ignore this type of thing and carry on (seemingly) entire conservations without paying any attention at all. If you asked them why they were not upset they would answer "'About what?"
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