Hi all,
Dealing with my fiances mother who about 10+ years ago had a bad hip surgery that gave her a stroke and put her in a coma. Ever since then she has been on the decline, she is 70 years old now. Her and her husband have moved 3 miles away from us recently. Her husband has been primary caregiver however is suffering from depression and generally hates her at this point and they probably shouldn't live together, it can be quite toxic at times. However, there aren't any other options at this point. She can't walk well and insists on being pushed in her wheelchair even though her doctor insists she can/should walk as much as she can. She complains non-stop about how bad she has it, how much pain she is in, how mean her husband is to her (even though he does everything for her) Her doctor tells her no more sleeping pills and she insists I take her to walgreens so she can get benadryl. Not allowed to have sugar and insists on getting ice-cream... etc... she just generally doesn't care nor try to improve her conditions nor her attitude. She seems to want to live a miserable life. She doesn't have great impulse control so if she wants something she'll call over and over all day. She obsesses over getting her hair and nails done and new clothes rather than strengthening herself and becoming more independent. She'll try to get you to do everything for her and has no boundaries. I hate to make her sound like some monster, she has good qualities and is a good person and can be silly and sweet, but DEFINITELY has some toxic habits that are creating a pretty miserable family situation for the rest of us. What do you do with someone who doesn't try at all and would rather feel sorry for themselves and have everyone else do everything for them? How much agency does she really have? She's had some brain damage from the coma but def is functional and can do WAY more than she does. If someone isn't willing to put the work in how should the rest of the family proceed? A facility is not an option (financially) and she is too snobby to be social with other people in her dealing with similar circumstances .
"What do you do with someone who doesn't try at all and would rather feel sorry for themselves and have everyone else do everything for them?"
I'd decline any ongoing invites to pity parties.
I'd suggest professional assistance; Thearapist for marriage/life counselling & a Geriatrician for medical issues. Let this couple get advice & decide their own path. (May be time for AL for MIL.. if they think best).
I'd be a DIL who visits now & then. Bring afternoon tea, have a friendly chat. That would be MY boundary right there. The rest falls into their life & therefore is up to them.
I would not step a foot onto that slippery slope towards being at beck & call 24/7.
And like Beatty said, next time she invites you to her pity party, just decline to go. Best wishes.
As long as she is of sound mind, not much you can do legally.
But! You can tell her NO. Some examples:
"No MIL, I can't get you benadryl (or ice cream or whatever destructive thing she wants). I don't feel right about that given your medical problems." (This may get her to consider to stop acting so helpless? Maybe not!).
MIL complaining? "I'm sorry you're having such a hard time. I'll call/see you when you're feeling a little better."
MIL wants you to come over and do whatever for her? "I can't. I've got [work, school, anything] and I can't miss that or put it aside."
Once you and fiance stop coming around so much and don't immediately get her what she wants, she may realize her antics don't work. You say she is a good person, and I'm sure she has good aspects... but really, a good person would take responsibility and not want to burden others. Nor would a good person be snobby. It’s not your fault she doesn’t want to be around people, and no need for you and fiancé to be her social group.
If there was brain damage that could cause a lot of problems. Its been 10 yrs and she should be evaluated again by a neurologist.
When a poster used the word enabling a member said that its not always enabling, its disabling. Enabling is getting her the Benadryl and icecream she is not suppose to have. Disabling is doing things for her she can do for herself.
I would not marry into this family unless you are sure you will come first.
She hurt her left shoulder and when you visit she sits and groans and rubs her shoulder non-stop. Complains that she can't get a dr who will help her. At first I was all about helping her find range of motion exercises, cortisone shots, massage, and she'd throw it back at me.
Last week I was there for a minute and she was rubbing her RIGHT shoulder and moaning and saying how much WORSE her shoulder was getting---finally I said "Mother, it's your OTHER shoulder that hurts. Your right one is fine". That didn't fly and I got bounced out of there pretty fast.
People like this have lived inside their own brains for so long, that they really can't see how off putting their behavior is. Mom is perpetually dissapointed in all of us, and lets us know it. And you know what?
There is not one thing I can do for her. She WANTS to be miserable.
70 is VERY young. She could easily live 25 more years. Just saying. And I doubt she will get 'better'.
Mom is 91 and has lived with YB in his home for 26 years. He regrets this decision every day of his life.
Tough love is what your fiance's mother needs, and from everyone. That means you, her kids, and her husband. All of you must stop being at her beck and call and catering to her every whim.
JoAnn29 in the comments here is absolutely right when she says that 'enabling is disabling'. If she can do for herself, she must do for herself. It's for her own good.
If your future MIL wants to act like a spoiled brat child then treat her like one. When the complaining and demands start everyone needs to completely ignore her. Don't accept any more invitations to her pity parties either because that's how she gets all of you to jump through hoops.
Next time she wants to go shopping, or get her hair and nails done tell her no because you (and everyone else) refuses to push her in a wheelchair that she doesn't need. If she wants you to go buy Benadryl or ice cream tell her the truth. That she isn't supposed to be having these things and that you will not help her get them.
You, her husband, and her kids need to change the family dynamic. Right now your future MIL controls the situation and is in charge. No more of that. All of you need to stop and be united together in the decision. Your future MIL will catch on when she gets lonely because everyone is blowing her off. She'll adjust her behavior and start doing for herself when everyone stops humoring her.
From stroke org website:
The impact of stroke on the brain can also cause personality, mood and emotional changes. All this means there is a strong link between stroke, depression and anxiety.
Add a stroke to that personality & I would image you get a very anxious needy person!
Even with stronger boundaries to say no to MIL, I'm thinking the stress is just going to keep at you all - as her needs will still be unmet (unless constant attention is given). Makes me think 'What cannot be cured must be endured'... Not by FIL & family - but by MIL herself. If she is not independent, to accept that & plan how she will live. Having relatives that don't live with her at beck & call or wearing out her spouse is not reasonable - time for something different (AL comes to mind).
So it may well be time for a family meeting & discuss a different path.
Stop driving her around.
Either she does it herself, or it doesn't get done. If someone waits on you hand and foot, what motive is there to improve? Let her sink or swim.
Whatever you do, don't EVER consider moving her into your home, or you moving in with her. This sounds like stage 1 of a multi-stage process that ends with the two of you living together. That would be a disaster.
Get her to a geriatric psychiatriat for evaluation and treatment of her mental health issues.
Learn to say "I can't possibly do that".
I’d be interested in any comments!
I used to say about my father...the more you help him, the more helpless he acts. I had no issue with helping my father with things he couldn't do, but I took great offense at being expected to jump and do things he didn't FEEL like doing.
You have an added issue I do not....you have a group of people you need to get on board with not enabling her, I was on my own.
70 is not old (I am 54 and husband is 72, while I see age related issues he is not old). Do you want another 20-25 years of doing this? And what happens when FIL is not longer around and a buffer to all of this?
For FIL and his needs - he does need to have some "me" time. If she is constantly berating him and complaining, he NEEDS to get out! While facility care might not be affordable, can he get out and leave her alone or does she need someone there? A few hours several days/week might help, if she needs supervision (but the aides should be warned to encourage her doing for herself too!) Depending on income, Medicaid might be able to help - many states do have in-home care programs. It isn't full time, but any help is good!
So, you are learning and taking pointers here. Get the others together for a pow-wow and share the information. Present a united front with her and refuse to coddle her. If she'd be willing to work with OT/PT, perhaps she can get this provided in home? If she isn't willing to work with them and do the exercises between visits, that might be a waste. My mother had dementia, but had a stroke around Labor Day. It impacted her dominant side and swallowing, but she still tried to feed herself! They did bring in PT to work with her, to try to strengthen that side so she could eat and help with pivoting when staff had to move her. Some people are much more independent and will try, even if it's a struggle. Others like the mollycoddling and attention it gets them. Perhaps instead of indulging on her "helplessness", give her more attention when she actually DOES try to do something. The attention may work as a reward...
Talk frankly with her. People who want to stay in their home have work to do to stay there. They follow the health recommendations regarding her sugar levels. They TRY to do the physical and occupational therapies to get stronger so that another person is not having to do all the lifting and pushing to move a body around. It is obvious she can do more than she does when only family in the home. If she wants to stay in bed or in a wheelchair all day, there are facilities for that kind of care and she will need to go there. All of you plan to talk to dr to get therapy done in the home and her willingness to participate will determine where she can live. Hubby is going to hurt himself or wear himself out trying to manage all of her needs as well as his own.
She has a choice to make. As my grandmother used to say - do you want to wear out from trying to help yourself or rust out by just sitting until you can no longer move.
I agree with the posters who are recommending a geripsych assessment and to consider that she may have dementia, especially given her history.
Pinning down the root cause of her behaviors, whether physical or mental, will help your family make decisions about next steps.
Offhand it sounds like she can't set up appointments anymore-either can't manage the steps or the technology. Obsessiveness, apathy, inability to initiate actions, and lack of intuition and judgement can be seen in dementia.
Definitely, If she can ambulate she needs to be up and moving, even if she needs a walker. And your working on setting limitations is a great step. Good luck!
My relative will not do for herself if others within sight/phone call. Cannot understand how unreasonable it was on family - just knows 'she wants stuff done'. Just how her brain works now. Doctor said *anosognosia* and noted file *lack of insight*.
Said anosognosia common after stroke, also vascular dementia. No point trying to reason (won't work) just to set reasonable boundaries for yourself.
So home aides employed to meet needs instead (until that no longer works). Then will be into care.
You stop driving her to the store to get her Benadryl.
You don't buy the ice cream and other things she wants but should not have.
If she wants the Benadryl, ice cream and other things she should not have she has to get them herself.
You stop pushing her in the wheelchair, she can push herself and she will soon find out that walking with a walker is easier than pushing herself.
Help her with the things she has difficulty doing and do for her the things she can not do. (after a bit of encouragement)
See...I told you it was easy, I'm sitting her in my living room having a hot cup of mocha...you and your family on the other hand are the ones that have to deal with the ramifications of saying no, we are not going to do that for you, you are capable of doing that yourself.
Respite for your FIL would be a great idea. Many Assisted Living or Rehab facilities will take someone for 1, 2 or more weeks for Respite. The idea there is they hope you like the community and would choose them when the time comes to make that choice. FIL would get a bit of a break, MIL would have to deal with things on her own for a while and become more independent. I would even book rehab time for her so she can become more confident in what she can do.
If the AL facility or Rehab is not a possibility if your local Senior Center is open they could both go there, FIL can engage with others and if MIL does not wish to (because she is "snobby") then that is on her, she can sit and read while FIL plays cards, reads the paper or has a conversation with someone. At least it would be a bit of a break for him. Or leave her at home and he can go and she will have to "survive" for a few hours without his help. (as long as she is safe to leave by herself for a few hours.)
Don't do anything for her that she can do for herself or at least meet you half way to do.
The thing is, noone really knows how much pain she is in but her.
It’s an emotional roller-coaster no matter the experience we have as care-givers. We have to deal the best way we can and remember we have lives too and that the LO’s we care for should not take up so much space in our emotional well-being that we feel trapped. This site is so good at helping us understand we are never alone.
I have about 5 from my place I reckon within pushable distance 😉
opinion. She may be in pain that can be improved. The geropsychiatric opinion is also a good idea. Benedryl in older people can lead to confusion and memory problems. I'm not excusing her behavior; sounds like a real pain. But, perhaps, some of the problems can be improved, or the approach can be changed. These are questions really for professionals. You can't be expected to answer them objectively.
That being said. Even with a severely demented person, unlike your mother-in-law, it is reasonable to step away to calm down. If the situation is so dire you can't step out of the room, call 911. It is reasonable to change your behavior, to not reinforce their behavior. Waiting on them, blowing up at them, interacting angrily, all these things increase the behavior that is driving you crazy. Step away for a few minutes or hours, days, or longer. Explain that when she upsets you, you cannot be helpful. Give her husband permission to do the same. He feels trapped. In early psychology courses, you learn that one celled organisms can learn. (Change their direction for food or unpleasant things added to the water.) That means a human, even a demented one, can recognize what increases or decreases interactions. Stepping away is a good idea when she is impossible, or you are at the end of your rope. On the other hand, when she has her pleasant moments increase the interaction, don't use that time to rest from her care. I would contact the senior agencies in your area and ask for help or advice. Sometimes they can arrange visits, or even some care. Churches do this also. A person not caught up in this frustrating situation, can often provide a break for everyone.
Was she always manipulative or is this a new behavior after her stroke?
If she has always been manipulative, then a psychiatrist may be the better doctor to see. It might be wise for her husband to see one as well - separately and as a couple. If she refuses - and even if she decides to see one - I suggest that family and friends read any "boundary" book by Townsend and Cloud. She has problem behaviors that make relationships more difficult. In short, each person needs a plan of how to handle each problem behavior. I would start will not giving in to her whims that are detrimental to her health - just say "I know this isn't good for you, so I won't do this." If she calls over and over, put phone on silent and let it go to voicemail.
If this is new behavior after her stroke, it appears that the impulse control area of her brain is damaged. The only thing to do is manage her behavior problems. Again, I stress reading a "boundary" book by Townsend and Cloud. Each person will need a plan for dealing with each type of problem behavior - impulsivity, manipulation, phone calls... If her husband is finding it too hard to manage her behavior on his own, it may be time to consider other options: adult day care, having lots of family and friends sit with her throughout the week, or residential care.
In your case, do what is right for you, your relationships with this family, and what is healthy for this lady. Do not get manipulated into doing anything that is harmful for her.
Feel free to copy and print this out and let family members read this post.
As most other posters have said.... stop taking part in her pity party and enabling her. She is very young at 70 to have this attitude - she could easily live another 20 years and her attitude is not likely to improve: this is her personality and she has been performing this way for decades. The family could be looking at a very long road; be brutally honest with yourself and make sure you can handle it. This is a good time to take a look at the family and make sure there is someone there who can and will make hard decisions.
Not sure where you are located but in NJ it is the business decision of the
AL to accept Medicaid. Most do not or limit their acceptance to a very few beds because the rate of pay from Medicaid is so low that they lose money on that bed, so when you get out ALs find out not only if they accept Medicaid but how many beds in their facility are Medicaid beds. Also find out if they will convert a bed to a Medicaid bed if all Medicaid beds are currently occupied when and if MIL runs out of private funds ( trying to prevent you getting caught in the situation where the AL accepts Medicaid for 5 beds which are all occupied when your LO runs out of funds and so will have to leave and search for a new facility; those get ugly really quickly). Also check your state to see if there are any other Medicaid options available in addition to AL (adult group home, boarding care, home health care, etc. They may not fit your needs but it is interesting info to have).
Family should try to get past FIL's affair. The relationship between MIL and FIL is theirs - it might be strange or even weird to you but that's their business and family, I'm sure has lots to concern them on their own, so stay out of that arena.
In terms of FIL not much you can do there to help him. If he really needs to get away from his wife and she won't/can't move to an AL , perhaps he might consider taking short vacations of a few days at a time at a local extended stay hotels. It will give him a respite and remove an enabler from MIL's immediate circle for a few days.
I wish you and the rest of the family good luck in dealing with a difficult situation made worse by a difficult personality. Let us know how things progress.
Peace.
But has anyone looked under the hood? It is unusual to need hip surgery at 55. It is unusual for it to go so badly that you stroke and wind up in a coma. At the root of how she is now is what went wrong before. Was she/is she very much overweight? Is there some underlying physical or mental health condition which she and her husband are so used to they never thought to mention it to their son or to you? You have to know exactly what she's battling with before you decide she should be trying harder.
Once you have your information, then you will understand better what is realistic. And then, for her to change her approach, it has to be made both possible and worth *her* while: she has to believe that she can succeed and that she will be glad she tried.
You, meanwhile, can decide your boundaries on a different basis - namely, the time and trouble you are prepared to give her. Take the hair salon rigmarole. Actually, it would have been a lot quicker to call the salon and make the appointment, wouldn't it? Rather than deciding "she can do this, I'm not going to cave in" - which took you hours and was tedious and frustrating - you could have thought "I'll give this 45 minutes" - including time to check the salon out (I don't really understand why the salon didn't put its telephone number on its hoarding, mind) and time to make 1 or max 2 phone calls.
Or, third option, you could have found the number, gone to her, put it into her phone, helped her make the call, then done a little cheerleader's dance once she'd made the appointment. She *could* do it, fact. She did it. She wins a hair appointment - and your approval.
And if she'd flunked it, or sabotaged it (both possible), then you intervene and don't comment.
But the key thing is: figure out in your own mind how much work you are happy, willing, content to give her and stand fast to that boundary.
Who else is working with her? Does she get any input from therapists of any kind?
She has a new doctor again since moving closer to us who is 'tough' on her which is good! Her husband is going to al-anon meetings to deal with his experience in all this, she has zoom group therapy meetings and meditations. The salon example doesn't sound like a big deal and really it isn't, it was just the fact that she needed her hand held through every step of the way which is such a slippery slope for those of us around her because she truly can't count on us for all these daily things, we have jobs and simply can't be there for her all the time, not to mention I know if she actually TRIES she can do it, she really can. She gives up immediately without much effort. She needs to be constantly coaxed for everything.
Her priorities are all wrong also, her vanity is more on her mind then being more independent. She always wants to go shopping and get her hair done and they have NO money for all that, they really have lost all their money because of medical bills etc... FIL has veteran benefits and she has disability,
It's very difficult for her to see beyond herself and her wants and her suffering and I'm sure part of that is due to some cognitive damage causing her to be emotionally more like a child in some ways... If you give her an inch she takes 10 miles which is why me calling the salon for her would essentially just encourage her to keep getting me to do more things for her. I texted her the number and then stopped answering her calls because at that point she was just being excessively ridiculous about it because 100% she could call on her own at that point.
In many ways she's really 'with it' you can have normal conversations with her, her memory is intact, her sense of humor is still there, she has become really manipulative though, not because she's a bad person, but because it's become how she copes with being less independent. She's lost many friendships over the years and a doctor even dropped her as a patient for "wasting their time". All this advice is amazing but it sometimes feels like at this point if she hasn't 'learned her lesson' from her bad behavior I don't know that anything will help.
FIL has been vigilant with doctors and therapist etc. over the years, they've "tried everything" that's why my fiance has sort of given up... he's seen 15 years of nothing working and her not putting in the work, he's sort of come to terms with her continuing to live a sad/miserable life and dying miserable. I hope that doesn't sound too morbid and insensitive.
Thank you for sharing all the thoughts and advice and I will practice these ideas because even though it seems hopeless we still should always try to live a meaningful life !