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My father in law died during the pandemic and we have not been able to plan his service. He was an atheist and wanted a party for a celebration. We had him cremated and we are holding on to the ashes. His wish was to be buried in his Unitarian church’s memorial garden. My mother in law has not willingly talked about the burial or any of the details. My husband is their executor, it feels like he is in over his head.
It is an unusual time but I feel like something off about the complete avoidance about planning any kind of burial or service. In the meantime, I am not comfortable having his ashes with us because he was so vocal about his intention. Any advice?

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This must be hard on your mother but that’s her husband . He’s been cremated there’s no reason he must be buried right away. Let yet decide when to have his celebration . And the word celebration is the right word . We honor their lives but he’s gone home , wether he believed in our Lord or not was his choice. I’ve lost all my immediate family we celebrated their lives . We miss them but they are no longer in pain, suffering, will never feel
the pain of loosing anyone dear to them so they are the fortunate ones.
do stop worrying about the dead and concentrate on the living and their feelings . She’s not ready to let him go , give her his urn let her grieve in her own way . She will make the right decision. I have my daughter ashes , my mother and father also. Why because thats
where they wanted to he . God help you make the right decision for your mother and for you also . God bless and stay safe 🙏🙏😍🌺🌷
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Marilyn24-

It sounds like he made his wishes clear. When it is convenient for you, take steps to complete his wishes.

Before you move to complete a step, tell his wife that you intend to do so. If she objects to any step, hold off.

If she continues object, it may be because she is not at a point in grieving to let go.

Maybe, if she were keeping the ashes, she could find a way to let go of them.

Is she willing to bear this responsibility?

D
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worriedinCali Jul 2020
OP has no right to step in and do what she wants. It wasn’t her spouse who died. OP is just a bystander here. And there’s no need to rush and have the party her FIL wanted!
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This is about how you feel, not your in-laws.
If your husband feels like he is over his head, why isn't he posting here instead of you? Look inside and understand your motivations: Are YOU feeling empty? Grief? Loss? It might support you to identify how you feel inside to recognize how you feel.

Something is OFF. The pandemic has affected all of us. On top of that, many are dealing with family members with dementia. There is a lot off now.

For your own well-being, it is important to examine, then look beyond your needs and beliefs/value systems instead of putting the focus of your concern(s) as being the problem of your mother-in-law and her behavior. This is about you.
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Ashes have been known to wait on shelves or in closets for many months and even years. Grieving is hard and there is no timeline. This Covid business makes it even worse. Why the rush? He's not going anywhere. Let your MIL coast for a while in the decision-making category. It's not even been 6 months! Then--- sit down with her and your husband and offer some suggestions for a service, do the legwork and see if he CAN be buried where he had chosen. She is fragile and needs love. Dont expect too much.
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what’s normal? Her grief and incapacity. I don’t understand why this is a problem for you. It doesn’t matter if this decision takes time. And it’s her decision and indecision. People are more important than rituals. If you don’t want the ashes in your house let your husband know. He and her family members will have to come up with a solution. And you FIL family.
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i am also an atheist. I dont care wherc i am buried
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MargaretMcKen Jul 2020
I'm not going to be buried anywhere - only my body, which isn't me.
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Imho, I understand the Unitarian Church is "not an aethiest movement, but a religious movement where some aetheists may comfortably fit." That said, even though your FIL claimed to be an aethiest, I do understand that he had a church home (I did not understand that until I researched it above). For whatever reason (sadness, grief or even the Novel Coronavirus), your MIL does not or will not follow through with his intentions. Therein lies the problem of what to do with his cremains, which you could place in an area of your home that is not seen. perhaps.
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worriedinCali Jul 2020
Good grief. Why are we assuming MIL does not and will not honor her spouses wishes? Gatherings larger than 10 are still prohibited in multiple states. Even when not prohibited, many people are avoiding large gatherings. We all understand that FIL wanted a party right? Now is not the time to throw a party.
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First, I am so sorry for your family's loss. That must have been shocking and stressful. I understand your husband wanting to wrap things up - there is closure in that. But, in this case, respecting her years with her spouse and process with losing him so unexpectedly is in order? Maybe taking a different, less business-like, more empathetic approach would work. Maybe even a grief counselor is in order. There is value in helping her achieve closure through a celebration, but there is also value in finding out what is holding her back. There is usually a reason... guilt is the usual culprit (not being on good terms when the person passed) but it could also be denial or resentment (i.e., not being in charge of the process). A counselor could help the family come to the root of the issue fairly quickly, I think. Sending love and light to all of you, and everyone having to navigate these very upsetting and unusual circumstances.
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I did not know about UUs, so grateful thanks to those who explained them. Wikipedia - dear old Wiki, God bless it - further explains:

"Unitarianism

This article is about the Christian theological movement. For the doctrinal position, see Nontrinitarianism. For the liberal religious movement, see Unitarian Universalism. For its British counterpart, see General Assembly of Unitarian and Free Christian Churches. For other uses, see Unitarian."

So I hope that's all completely clear now..?
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Too late now for your father in law, but i would suggest everyone should have the talk with their elderly parents before illness sets in. Make sure they have wills, living wills as well. My hubby has Altzheimers/vascular dementia. Years ago, we made our wills, living wills, medical poa, financial poa etc. making sure that our two children would take over if either of us died and the other was not capable of handling things. In recent years, we updated everything with our lawyer, pre paid our funerals, have our headstone placed on our daughters grave, we will be cremated and buried there. In fact, we signed over our home to the two children with the caveat that we live here until death and still pay our own taxes and homeowners insurance, etc. Our state has an inheritance tax and we certainly don't need the state to take anything we worked hard for. Sure its not an easy discussion to have but we learned the hard way when my hubbys father died and we did not even know if he had insurance to bury him or had a pension that would have gone to my mother in law. We wanted to avoid all those problems for our kids. Just my opinion. Hugs
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My father just passed as well.. he was cremated. Our mother passed 2 years ago and they wanted to be buried at the same time. Right now the world is in chaos and the additional stressing of a service of any type (wedding, funeral, whatever) would just be too much for our family.
So we're delaying things indefinitely at this point until covid-19 is under control then we'll plan our big memorial party to celebrate their years together on earth and in the afterlife.
Maybe that's an option for your mother in law to wait and have one big memorial to honor the two of them. Just a thought, good luck to your family in working this out. Grieving is not easy.
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What's the rush? When my father died 3 years ago we opted to wait 2 months and hold a memorial service. Per his wishes he was cremated and I scattered some of his ashes around his home town. The rest were put into a box that commemorated his career and buried in a small family gathering.

He died in the summer and had many elderly relatives so heat and getting people to a funeral would have been a hardship to many. So we had a memorial service with pizza and cookies. Instead of solemnity and grieving we were able to enjoy memories and stories. I made posters with pictures from his life and my siblings brought momentos of his life.

This was easier on Mom, too, not having to make so many decisions at such a traumatic time. And quite frankly saved up a lot of money on a funeral.
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cherokeewaha Jul 2020
That is exactly how I have expressed my wishes. My cremation is paid for, my ashes to be spread in the spring over the fields of blue bonnets that I love and no funeral just a get together of our children and grand children for a good meal/cookout/crawfish boil and lots of memories of all of us together.

Now my husband wants a big funeral which has been paid for and wishes to be buried beside his mom and dad who had a 3 person plot. But, he flat refuses to finish the planning by purchasing the vault required and a headstone. He has picked out his casket and told me what he wants to wear. I just wish he would finish the purchases needed to be complete.
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She is grieving--- if you all love her-- plan a BIG ONE and incorporate all the pictures from all the albums-- make it a FAMILY undertaking ( ooo- poor choice of words ...) -- Now call up the Unitarian Pastor and get her done ! Time is of the essence. Lose not a minute.
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Several questions come to mind. First off, why is it assumed that your MIL has to be in charge or even involved. He said he wanted a party so anyone can plan a party And there is no indication that his burial was intended to be a social event or even have any spectators so just get it done.

Second, why was your hubby made executor? Sounds like it was thought that he was a good manager of things. If so, it does not need to be struggled with as an emotional decision. Just see that the will is properly executed. I have long held that one of the worst things that Anyone can do to their survors is to make a relative an executor of the estate. It will always place that person in a position of distrust and alienation the rest of their lives. It will also always make the rest of the family feel like the deceased did not trust one of them enough to make one of them the executor, instead. But that ship has already sailed in your case. Just get the job done so everyone can move on. Either that will be a relief for your MIL or she will be put off because she was using her indecision to keep attention focused on herself in her indecision. Good luck.
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Get your name as co-owner of the property. You or your husband on her bank acct. Give her time, and keep up with conversations that are "where she is".
The ashes...you are focused on yourself. Do what he wanted.
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worriedinCali Jul 2020
Are you serious? Why should the OP get her name on her MILs assets?
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This situation makes me so angry - people know they should be doing something or at least discussing options, etc. and they do nothing. End result everything gets dumped onto someone else who should no have to bear the burden. Here is what I think. For whatever reason, your mother in law does not want to accept the fact that he is gone, or she is in deep mourning, or she is just simply incapable of acting. Since it appears you are aware of what his wishes were, I would sit her down (with others present as witnesses), tell her that you are concerned she is not discussing what plans she wants implemented. Therefore you, or the person in charge, is now taking over that responsibility and will proceed with all plans that your father in law indicated were his wishes. You will abide by them to the best degree you can and she must get involved. If she won't, appropriate action will be taken without her input and that will be the end of it - and you will not ever listen to a word of complaint afterwards. In other words, she is making her bed (ignoring all things), now let her lie in it. Just carry out his wishes and do what he wanted. Then get on with your life and if she comes out of her "shell" afterwards and has something to say, then ignore her or put her in her place.
Do what you have to do.
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worriedinCali Jul 2020
You think the OPs MIL isn’t doing something she should be doing? People like you make me angry. Do you suffer from memory loss? Not trying to be rude here. Or perhaps you only read the title of the post and nothing else? Either way, it’s kind of hard to make final arrangements during a final pandemic. Nothing has been left for the OP and her husband to deal with either. Seems like what is actually missing here is COMMUNICATION and no one has bothered to discuss this with MIL. Just because she hasn’t “willingly talked”
doesn’t mean anyone every brought up a serious discussion about it.
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There is no rush for this or to carry out his intentions. If she doesn't want to talk about it right now, so be it. Executor hubby can take care of the other details in dad's life and leave the burial to later on. Settle the estate and then deal with mom's will in the event they had wills leaving everything to each other - hers will need an update to avoid problems later on.
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Does your MIL want the ashes? In this world crisis for now.. planning a service may have to be put off. But..helping your MIL to create some sort of memorial in her home might help her grieving process??? IE: a small table with pictures of him and the family etc... creating positive memories. I dont know the mind state of your MIL? If you do get to visit her..having her husbands favorite meal with some family around can open conversation. personally. I would just keep the love and giving flowing. Good thoughts your way. One step at a time. Sincerely.
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Family held a memorial service for my grandmother right after her death. It took almost 4 years for her kids to scatter her ashes. There isn't a right or wrong way to handle the situation, especially now with COVID. Maybe the "right" thing to do is help your husband understand that he is doing the best he can under the circumstances. Your MIL may need the time to adjust to her husband's death, so knowing that you will do as your FIL wishes in the future may be the best all of you can do for now.
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Plenty of atheists attend the Unitarian church. If he was an atheist, then, you have absolutely no problem waiting until your mother-in-law is ready to do the planning or at least until a party is even feasible. Delaying the party and burial of ashes is understandable during the pandemic and this is no poor reflection on his family. What you are really concerned about is the manner in which she is grieving. Best advice I can give to you is for all of you to get grief counseling. Hospice offers this; hopefully they are doing these counseling sessions via zoom during covid. It may be that your MIL just isn't up to this task. When my dad passed, my mother directed me to work with the funeral home. She really didn't want to do it. I complied. If you have time, you could investigate options for the burial of his ashes, research markers or benches, possible inscriptions etc, so that when MIL is able or interested you can show her what you have found. If she passes the job to you, you are ready to act.
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It is hard for any of us to give any comments or how we did things. Every family is different. In our case, with lifelong distancing of our families due to my husband's military career, our situation, was that my husband had only one sibling remaining , not in our home town but many States away ; my family lives across the United States. It just wasn't in my mind to ask my family to attend my husband's 30 minute "funeral" because I didn't see the reason to have it. If the mother is showing signs of dementia, sounds more than just showing signs, then maybe the caretaker child can just arrange for burial where the person wanted to be buried. If the remaining children are all close, just plan a dinner or Sunday get together and invite all whom you want, any family members, few close friends you want. Something smal,big BBQ, or nothing at all.
I arranged through our funeral arranger for a small military service with a Chaplain and one soldier at the nearby National Cemetery. Just our son, his wife and their twins. My husband was not a sociaI person and had no close friends. I gave the chaplain some information about my husband, my daughter-in-law made a small bulletin board with various pictures of my husband over the years, and a newspaper article of him. The twins were almost 6 at the time, and were thrilled to see the photos of their grandpa on display. I arranged to have two flags presented, one to me and one to the twins (mine will go to them, so they each have one of Pap Pap). Just as the Chaplain started to talk, two waitresses from my husbands favorite restaurant arrived. I was surprised. That's all we had. After the small service we had planned to have lunch at a certain restaurant, and invited the Chaplain and soldier (who declined), and invited the two friends. The chaplain said grace at the restaurant and a few encouraging words. During the lunch we said very little about husband/father/grandpa. The chaplain shared some words of encouragement and for the rest of the luncheon we had laughs and talks, that's the only thing my husband would have wanted. We were just wife, son, family and those 2 friends, and the chaplain.
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1nephew Jul 2020
This sounds like it was lovely, an event you and others can remember positively. Well done.
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Tread gently and slowly. Develop episodes of brief discussions about how she feels and be ready for any kind of response she gives. Reflect on how much pain and sense of loss she is in and focus your responses on that. This may facilitate breaking down her resistance to her late husband's strong wishes.

Introduce the idea that her husband never wanted her to suffer as she is, and thought his wishes would not cause a problem for her. At the right time, remind her of how clear he was about his wishes, including the desire never to leave her in the first place. Now his body has passed, but his love for her remains forever, and that will never part from her. In honoring his strongly voiced intentions, does she really want him not to have what he wanted? If she continues to resist, make sure his ashes are in the room where she stays.

Grief cannot be hurried and i am aware of people who never let go. The families eventually did no upheaval to the remaining spouse by over-riding her decision. Leave her as the sole care-taker of her husband should doing otherwise further break her down. Grieving a permanent loss is expressed in as many ways as there are remaining people. Maybe it is the survivor's struggle to work through this and ours to mitigate their pain. I am truly sorry for the loss experienced by all involved. There is no one good answer to your sensitive situation. But there is one bad answer: forcing a decision on the one most involved. all my love, m
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During the pandemic, you'll not be able to have a party safely. It's OK to hang on to his ashes until public health is safer. Put them away somewhere in a cupboard or closet until your mother in law can face the thought of a service. People grieve in different ways. It's best not to force your schedule on her.
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It is not necessary to have a service or to do anything ceremonial with FIL's ashes. As long as "he is there" with you, "tell him" you'll have his party when things are safer. For now share memories and family stories your FIL was a part of.
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I am in a similar position. My father died in April of 2019 and was cremated. My mother refuses to do anything. My sister and decided to just wait until she passes (89) and have a joint service. I actually did this with my grandparents. They were 100 and 103- dying 3 years a part.

My brother died this past April, not COVID, we are including him in the service. We are spread out over several states some of which are high risk right now....

Create whatever works for the people remaining.... these are strange times. be creative in your celebration of life....
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Is it possible to just leave it alone for now?

She needs some time to find her footing after dealing with his death.

It's not like you don't know what will happen, it is the when that everyone is dealing with right now.

If his ashes bother you put them somewhere that you don't have to look at them. We put a picture that brings us happy memories around the box, then we can smile every time we see the cremains.

Please find a way to step back and not pressure your MIL while she finds her way forward. Everything that your FIL was so verbal about will happen, just not right now.
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My father died this past spring. He was in the military and wanted cremation with his ashes buried in his service academy’s columbarium. Due to COVID, we plan to do the burial and a celebration of life next summer 2021 when it will be hopefully safe for everyone to attend (fingers crossed!). Meanwhile, his ashes are in a prominent place at home in a gold box with a bow on it (my addition) ready for the columbarium. I believe this actually provides comfort for my mom (who has mid-stage Alzheimer’s) as she knows that he’s still there with her, just in another form.

Unfortunately, COVID has uprooted many of our plans and cultural institutions. However, I kind of like knowing that we have plenty of time to plan his celebration (especially going through lots of family photos, home movies, and artifacts), rather than rush to get it done so soon after his death (cultural expectation). I think that time will allow us to really enjoy celebrating his life next year, rather than be so focused on his death.

Just another perspective ....
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since FIL passed during the Pandemic I’m guessing perhaps MIL and the rest of the family never had a chance to say goodby or come face to face with his passing. Likely MIL was unable to sit by his bedside or experience his illness first hand as so many spouses and families are having to deal with. It doesn’t surprise me that MIL hasn’t processed it enough to even think about a service maybe she even knows that anything planned now can’t be the party he wanted, so many emotions tangled up even more than usual. I understand your desire to both finalize his passing and honor his wishes but why does it have to be now? Did he indicate that it was important to him this party and burial happen in a certain time frame? It isn’t necessary from a practical perspective since he has been cremated, though I can certainly understand uneasiness at having his ashes sitting around the house, maybe there is somewhere at the church where they can stay until his wishes can be carried out and MIL is ready?

It was 6 mos I think between the time my grandmother passed and the time we were able to get together and disperses her ashes. She was a practice woman and didn’t want a fuss but did want some of her ashes buried next to her husband in a cemetery plot she had arranged for years prior. That cemetery along with most of her life were in CT but she passed in FL during the winter so when my father, two brothers and I could all meet in CT that next spring my father (who also lived in FL at the time) brought her ashes with him, we had some buried in her plot and had a simple private ceremony, just the 4 of us out on the point overlooking the water on the family property she was born on and lived in the summers until the day she died, sending her ashes out into the ocean that had been such a part of her life. I think we were much more ready to feel the moment actually because it had been several months since she passed, it was a perfect goodby for us and we all know for her as well. I’m not saying do something like this, just that waiting to carry out FIL wishes and allowing time for MIL to be a part of planning that as well might be better than it seems to you rite now.

I feel for your loss and don’t want to imagine how much harder it has been given the COVID complication, my thoughts are with all of you.
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I have been grappling with similar issues since my husband died in April - not too long after the COVID-19 shutdown began. We are only now in a position to have ANY kind of services to celebrate his life/inter his cremains. Family is spread around the country, with travel difficult and uncomfortable for some. I would dearly like to have his cremains off the mantle and in the cemetery where he wanted to be, and our pastor is encouraging me to do something. I have hesitated, in part because of a desire to accommodate the needs of far flung family members. But what I'm reading here gives me comfort in the thought that I should do what I need to do for myself and let others mourn/remember in their own ways.
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My nephew died suddenly two months ago, and since he was young with no end of life papers in place, we had no idea of his wishes for a service or burial. We eventually allowed his sister to decide on her own, because everyone had very different ideas of what he might have wanted. You at least know your FIL's wishes. As Zachary says, I think a very small gathering at the burial site for now is reasonable, with a celebration of life gathering later on. Unfortunately, we must mourn now mostly in private. I suggest you make a plan and present it to your MIL. She may be too overwhelmed to do anything at all except go along with your plan.

My father clearly wrote and stated that he wanted no service or gravesite, so we didn't have them. People were upset. My sister wished her ashes to be combined with our parent's and thrown over the Colorado mountains. We are keeping both my dad's and my sister's ashes for that event. My mom might outlive all who know my sister's wish though, so I'm getting it into some sort of document for the remainder of the family. It seems to me the coming together after a death is for the living more than for the one who has passed, but following the wishes are part of that.
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