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MIL ex-husband abandoned her and divorved her. But she now has lost her ability to make good decisions. We are POA for her. He insits on visiting her while he tells our family les about us and harasses us on the phone and in writing. We dont want him to visit her or at least want to limit his visits. We had an agreement with the nusring home to restrict the days he visits but he jus wrote our family, defaming us and telling everyone he can visit any time he chooses using the Patient Bill of rights as a basis.

Our question is, as POA can we at least limit his visits, especially since he harasses us constantly? Do we have to have a restraining order to do so or can we take other actions first?

We met with the nuring facility staff as agreed to allow him to see her ( my MIL wants to see him) on certain days so we would not run into each other, but he insists he ca come any time he wants and WE are the problem.

He constantly starts rumors with our family and they seem to believe him but he shows his real self to us by text messages and letters. He even threatened me with violence.

He WAS married to my MIL for about 5 years and they when she showed signs of her debilitation, he divorced her thinking he would have to use his own money to assist her. She has long term care ins from her first husband so this did not make much sense, but he divorced her anyway.

He is a promenant member of the local church and we feel like he is just trying to make a show to save face. We met with his pastor and even the pastor thinks he is a bit flakey.

Anyway, he has his own health issues and we are afraid he mishandles her when he takes her out of the facility to eat or otherwise, plus my MIL need assistance to use the restroom and they are not married so he has to undress her, clean her etc and that seem digusting.

We are tryng to balance my MIL wanting to see him and his attitude of dominance, harassment and disruption of our family by spreading lies about us. We'd like to avoid lawyers but it seems we may not have a choice, however, it also seem there is not much protection under the law for us anyway.

Any ideas, has anyone else had to deal with this kind of situation and what did you do?

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If all these threats are made over the phone,, tell him you need to see his requests in writing so that you can calmly go over them and address them once you have thought about them. Maybe he will "go off" in writing.. now that would be something you could take to the police and nursing home. He may fall for it...
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Alabama, go see the local prosecutor and bring the threatening letters, recorded phone calls, and proof they are divorced.
This man sounds like early dementia himself, so he should NOT have firearms of any kind. You ask for an "Order of Protection" to keep him away from you and demand "Supervised Visitation" when he is at the facility, including forbidding him to remove her from the premises. His behavior will worsen as his dementia/Alzheimer's progresses.
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Guess I can't help being a bit more skeptical about his motives, primarily based on this:

"He WAS married to my MIL for about 5 years and they when she showed signs of her debilitation, he divorced her thinking he would have to use his own money to assist her. She has long term care ins from her first husband so this did not make much sense, but he divorced her anyway."

Now he's back. This guy is a first class jerk. Does MIL have assets and is he in any way in line to inherit any of them? That may be part of his sudden concern for her.

If he's there on particular times, you might want to get another family member to observe, since it seems he's very domineering.

If MIL has dementia, she may not realize that he's the same jerk who walked out on her. That's the most important reason I don't completely accept that she really enjoys his company. He could be Santa Claus for all she knows (and that's not a reflection on her faculties).

The gun issue scares me. Sure, someone can threaten to use one, and may not do so, but it's the fact that he (a) doesn't threaten to sue (b) doesn't threaten to boycott (c) doesn't make other innocuous threats but he does threaten to use a gun.

He sounds like a loose cannon to me.

I'm not convinced that even a lonely MIL wants to see someone who abandoned her but has suddenly returned to her life. Does she really know who he is?

Do the other family members support your concerns?

Check the state statutes in your state and see if there are any addressing stalking and harassing. I used the Michigan statute for that purpose when a crazy relative was meddling in our affairs. I e-mailed her citing the statute and advised that 2 contacts after the notice would justify attempting to get a PPO. I also advised that if I got a PPO (and I had adequate documentation from earlier harrassments), I would ask the local sheriff to serve her at work, causing her great embarrassment.
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Very sorry about the spelling errors in the last comment. I am very nervous about this entire ordeal.
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MaggieMarshall, fresflyer - We HAVE and ARE letting him see her, thats the point, we do this becasue it seems to bring her a bit fo joy, howe ver, he tells the nursing home how to handle her health, he tries to make doctor appointments without our concent, he even had a local Doctor come see her who later wrote to us apologizing that she didnt know he was not family becasue he represented himself as her husband. Finally, yes, I agree this is about us and him, thats why I dont want the MIL involved but HE is forcing the issue. We are at this time ignoring his rampanges, allowing him to visit, BUT we are in charge of her health and well being not him! He is NOT part of our family any more!

A burse at the facilty told us he at one time left her ALONE in his running car to go to the restroom inside. What if she had rolled the car off for some reason?? In addition, he complains of headaches that are in his words debilitating, brings him to his knees! Yet he thinks he can rive her around and take her to his home. What is she falls and he has an attack? What then?

I only wanted to find out if anyone else had imilair issues and what they did. We want to take a high road here not a ******* contest, as suggested. We dont mind him seeing her if we can just oversee it a bit so he does bring harm to her, the staff or us!

We are looking for constructive comments not judgements. But thanks for the observations.
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Why can't MIL see him if she wants? Why can't he clean her? He was married to her for five years? Yes, he doesn't like you, but isn't MIL able to decide who she wants to see?
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Oh, I see now that you're a man. You know, Maggie and Freq Flyers comments are something to think about. Good points. It's just hard not to get pissed off reading about this holier than thou gun nut. Maybe he's just looking to escalate the battle and makes him feel powerful. Maybe let him be the bad ass, but I would be concerned about him taking mil out of her facility.
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Sorry. Your WIFE'S mother has little enough joy. Now that I realize that, stop the ******* contest.
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If your Mom-in-law is ok with her ex-hubby visiting her, then let him visit. But once he starts making waves within the nursing home or thinks about taking her out for visits, maybe you can scare him off by saying Mom needs this or that, can you buy these things for her?
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I would allow him to visit any time he chose as long as she wants him to. If I thought it was unsafe for MIL to go out of the nursing home -- I mean UNSAFE -- then I would restrict that in writing as well as sending him a POLITE letter that lets him know that.

You have all chosen to make MIL the center of your feud with each other. Leave her out of it. If he brings her joy, it's not up to you to limit their contact.

Stop acting like children. Why do I say that? Because in your lengthy question, you never once said MIL was anything other than happy to see him. Restraining order? Really? You folks have really escalated this, haven't you?

Your husband's mother has little enough joy in her life. Stop the nonsense.
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I'd check on the legality of recording phone conversations in your area, it wouldn't hurt to have proof if it comes to that.
You don't mention how long ago they were divorced. If he felt (however irrationally) the divorce was solely to protect his assets he may consider himself still married in the eyes of the church and feel you are wrongfully coming between his 'wife' and himself.
As for the nursing home stopping him, what exactly do you expect them to do? If they ask him not to take her out and he does anyway you can't expect staff to physically restrain him.
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Yes we are thinking about your suggestion of the letter from a lawyer. As far as confrontation, he says "I'm prepared for you if you confront me" hes a gun addict as well and has stated on the phone he would be prepared to use a gun if I or anyone confronts him. That's what makes us think he is unstable. We even mentioned this to the adminstrator of the facility and they just seemed to ignore it.

Problem is these are all phone conversations so probabaly wouldnt be used in court etc. althoigh my wife did hear the conversation where he treatened me and others.
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Just a thought. You might try having a lawyer send a mildly threatening letter to him to cease and desist seeing your mom. Maybe that would scare him off. Is he looking for some sort of payday? Are there any type A males in the family? If it were me I would confront the guy in person. Not threaten or be stupid, but make it very clear that he is to stay away.
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What "family" believes him. Does that matter? Can you send them an email saying "we know that Fred says a lot of uncharitable things about us, but know that Granny is being well cared for at X home. If you have any questions about her care, please feel free to contact us. We believe, sadly, that he may be developing dementia and does not see the situation with granny clearly."

If he makes credible threats, go have a chat with the local police and find out what you would need to do to protect yourselves.

I'm curious what his complaint is? Does he want to see her at your home, rather than getting care in a facility ?
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The family seem to believe him because he was a prominent church member. But he even has health issues now and as mentioned he has use very unchristian language and take actions that are very disturbing, threatening violence against us.

Unfortunately she is not competent, at least according to her doctor, she is not able to care for herself or make good decisions.

He randomly visits the facility and the staff do "not want to be involved in family issues" thus are somewhat uncooperative. We don't them involved in these issues either, they have a job to do and its not handling family issues.

Just wondering what our next step needs to be. We think he shows signs of going postal on us.
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Does anyone actually believe what he says about you? I'd just ignore that aspect.

If she doesn't object to being taken out by him, and if she is still competent, I'm not sure what can be done. How about before you visit, you call your mom to find out if he's there?
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