Mother had a spat with the caregiver and I don't know how to handle it. Any suggestions?

Are you there when the care givers are there? Do you see your mother being rude to them?

It may be that she complains to you about them, but not directly to the care giver.

Me, I tend to be direct, I would all the care giver up and say Mum is grumbling and as she tends to be disagreeable, you want to make sure the care giver is being treated well while she is in the home. Be sure to reinforce how much you appreciate the care she is providing to your parents and ask her to contact you with any concerns she may have.

Your mom is in an extremely stressful situation. I think you could cut her a little slack. BUT when she starts to treat you as a child, remove yourself. "Mother, that is rude. I'll come back later and perhaps then we can speak as adults."

If she is willing to be rude to you, her daughter, it is not hard to imagine her being rude to the hired help. I like Tothill's suggestion for talking to the caregivers directly.

The nurse has said let Dad sleep. Is there a doctor involved. Would that position have more authority with mother? The real goal her is Dad's welfare and comfort, right?

Does mom have any cognitive issues?

Why does she think you dad should be waked up?

Thank you for your comments. Yes, I am home during the day (just retired) and see what goes on with my parents care. My mother will speak to me in her language in front of the caregiver. I respond to her in English. My mother wants the caregiver to wake my father up so he can eat and be changed. When my father is woken up he can be very belligerent. My mother will prod the caregiver to wake him up and she will do so. The nurse had spoken to my mother about not waking him up and it worked for a while. After a few days she is back to telling the caregiver to wake him up.

I would get dad's doctor involved. I was brought up with the dictum "every hour a man sleeps, he lives another day" ( it sounded better in Italian). I think that goes double for dementia patients.

I agree. And if the doctor is a sensitive diplomatic type, he might even make up a Daily Schedule, all formal-looking, for your father which can then be pinned to the door.

Then there is how to deal with the anxiety and dissatisfaction your mother seems to be feeling about your father's condition. Perhaps she can't quite shake off the feeling that if he really tried he'd be doing better than he currently is? Perhaps it's that she can't help suspecting that if she were in charge he'd get up when he was told? Perhaps she's afraid of the "slippery slope"?

I also agree that actually the key thing is how the caregivers are handling her crossness. I know it's hard not to feel responsible for your mother's behaviour towards the weekdays lady, but it may be that she's a lot less bothered by it than you are? Don't forget, if she's a veteran of caregiving, she's almost certainly dealt with a lot worse than anything your mother says.

I have the sneaking suspicion that "mother" feels that the caregiver is being "lazy" by not awakening your father. And I was seriously asking if mom has cognitive issues; is she perhaps not "getting" the big picture of your dad's dementia?

It is hard to really know what relationship your mom has with caregivers. My dad complains about his caregivers and says he told them blah blah blah, so me thinking i better do some public relations find out that all is well, other than him complaining about me all the time. I know why my dad does that and i know he justs likes to be in control so that is one of his methods.
I agree with above posts, check in with caregivers and get the doctor on board to help dad get rest and the right to wake up happy instead of ole grouchy head.

Thank you all for your insightful comments. BarbBrooklyn, you hit the nail on the head about the "lazy" part. Before the illness, my mother was my father's caregiver. She would wake him up all the time to eat. She would call and call and he would not answer her until he finally yelled but eventually came to eat. But now he is bedridden and we have caregivers that help both of them. Mother also complains that the caregivers sit and look at their phones during the day. They do this when parents are resting or napping. So yes, she may think that they are lazy. I, on the other hand, find the caregivers upbeat and attend to their needs.

Talk to the caregiver first to hear what she thinks. Then it's time to have a 3-way sit down. Clear the air. Keep it calm and civil. Otherwise, you will be in the middle forever.

You are wrong on so many levels regarding your Dad. Do you realize how long urine and/or feces has sat on his skin letting him sleep to his waking naturally? Bedsores, infection etc. He needs to be up and checked as soon as they arrive. If he were in the hospital, do you think the nurses doing their rounds would allow this to happen? You cannot take what they say literally. My mother can tell me everyday that she knows I wish she were in a nursing home, that I don't care etc. Grow thick skin and learn to ignore. We are not in their shoes having to be taken care of, especially if they were strong-willed in their younger life.

It's perfectly possible to check a diaper without waking the person wearing it. Some brands have colour-change strips for the purpose, but in any case you can always have a quick, discreet feel for any wetness. And if it's soiled you'll know, believe me.

Why can't your mother wake your father and let her deal with the consequences until he calms down?

As Countrymouse notes, you can check a diaper without waking the patient. My mother generally doesn't arise until noon or later (she always did like to sleep in), but that doesn't mean she's being neglected; far from it. Her diaper is checked, and changed if need be, every two hours during the night, plus she gets turned and repositioned on the same schedule. The CNAs can do a lot of this with my mom half asleep. I like Bobby's suggestion about having your mom be the one to wake your father.

I would have a talk with the caretaker and see hew she feels about it. It may not even bother her much. They may be used to such behavior

Caregivers shouldn't be using their phones when they are working. It's a huge issue, especially with caregivers who are working as contractors because the company they work for cannot tell them how to do their jobs. So you must do that. If the caregivers are employees, then you should contact the company and ask about their phone policy. The good ones do not allow their employees to be on the phone when they are working. Patients can get confused and upset when caregivers are on their phones.

It's normal for the elderly to yell at their caregivers. By the time they need caregivers, they are physically and/or mentally impaired. They can get confused easily. They can have sundowners. Most caregivers understand this. It's part of their job.

However, if there is a particular caregiver who your mom doesn't like, then you should let the company know. You can tell the company that the caregiver is just not a good fit. It's normal to try several caregivers to get a good fit.

Your father should be woken when the caregivers arrive. If he is allowed to sleep late, then it will be easy for him to get sundowners, which is a common condition among the elderly. To help manage his sleep, it's good to get a full spectrum light for his room. Turn the light on in the morning and keep it on during the day. The full spectrum light will help him wake up. It will help prevent his body from building up melatonin during the day when he should be awake. Then turn the light out after the sun goes down to help his body build up melatonin so he will sleep through the night and be ready to be woken up the next morning. You should also do this for your mom. She should not be sleeping during the day unless she is also sleeping soundly throughout the night.

I also agree that your dad should be woken up in the morning to move him, change him, check for bed sores, etc. And, yes, this is a common protocol. Many caregivers don't know how to do their jobs. The requirements for being a caregiver are quite low and include things such as being at least 18 years old, owning a car, and being able to lift someone, and not much else.

I think your mom is starting with dementia too - have her checked out - her unwillingness to be flexible in her daily route & lashing out at family as well as 'I'M YOUR MOTHER' stance - it may be farther on than you think too

Tell your mom a theraputic fib that the dr. says dad is to wake up naturally - she probably wants company at the table - when possible ask the careworker to have a coffee with mom at those meals - the careworker has to eat lunch so would she be willing to eat at same time as your mom when dad is not there? -

I can relate to your Moms concerns with the caregivers. They will never provide the loving care to your father that she did.
Despite his grumbling she got him up anyway to feed & change him so it appears to your Mom as though they are lazy & not doing the job they are being paid for. Especially if she is asking them to do so & they are on their phones instead! Imagine the daily frustration for your Mom. And when she brings this to your attention you are "siding" with the caregivers. Your Mom feels ganged up on.....remember she is "old school"....when folks did the job they were paid for and then some! You will always be your Moms daughter/child. Yes please do "cut her some slack" as someone else pointed out. We sometimes forget how VERY difficult this is for them.
I experienced this issue with my Mom& caregivers. As soon as I acknowledged (agreed) with Mom rather than dismissing her VALID concerns we were able to "bond" & discuss those issues as a team. Afterall its you & your Mom who have your Fathers best interest at heart.
The conversations would go something like this: Yes caregiver A is so good at this & that but yes I'm not so sure about the other thing either. But don't really think its a dealbreaker do you? Neither one of us wants to deal with training a new CNA @ this point when she is so good @ this & that. And yes Caregiver B is on her phone alot....I don't like it either! I should speak to her about it. (And you should! It will only get worse is my experience.)
I am guessing your Mom has seen other caregiver behaviors that she hasn't even mentioned. An old boss of mine once said yrs ago "Very few folks can work effectively & actually do their job without direct supervision." He was so right!
Take this opportunity to share with your Mom & agree on something.........your little secrets together.......perhaps like you use to do. Give her the wink or secret eye roll when Caregiver B is doing what you both decided you would "put up with" for the sake of the much needed help!
This is what worked for us & its worth a try .....good luck ...xxx000

Most agencies will have a nurse do an assessment and write up a care plan for the caregivers, you can give your input on what is needed or not ..including what to do and when. They should be doing light housekeeping, meals and laundry for the patients that should fill their time instead of playing on their phones

Hi Demstress,  My mother has personality disorders with increasing dementia. She has difficulty asking for what she needs or calmly correcting how she would like things done. She’s a survivor of the 2nd world war with no counseling from trauma, yet she raised 3 children and went through 3 turbulent relationships. She suffers from years of PTSD as a child. I grew up exposed to all her anxiety.  She tends to triangulate and pit family or caregiver against another. She has been through 3 caregivers in 2 years and I have coordinated those processes and worked with the county for each new hire. The latest caregiver is by far heads and shoulders above the rest. As my mother started with similar behaviors of being shut in, snapping, mistrust and other paranoia that comes with her emotion cycles. I finally let go and laid it out in writing, and this time included my brother. She has extreme highs and lows and yes, doctors are all aware of her situation. Because she claims she is being controlled,  I explained in a letter that she is ultimately responsible to manage the caregiver and she is also able to screen, hire and fire a county worker (she has all the documentation and contacts to do so). Although she has increased cognitive issues, it helped to simply put the annual expectations, state benefits and her options in a 2 page 14 font letter as reference and a reminder. I’ve stepped back and away from her caustic bickering and rehashing of her pain toward me. It’s exhausting.  The caregiver texts me updates as needed. If it comes to a point where my mother is unruly and in danger, the caregiver can alert me. In the meantime, it’s peaceful and I keep a healthy distance from abusive communication and triangulation. This behavior is no different than my 50 years earlier growing up in her home, when I took care of her unstable emotions. Comes a time where I have to see the co-dysfunction for what it really is and set my own boundaries of what is acceptable for me in order to help, especially with histrionic personality disorder, splitting personality disorder depression, overt narcissism and now dementia. I’ve been on that roller coaster enough times to know it best to stay clear. I can not push the river. Good luck to you and remember to first care for yourself.

I have really 'enjoyed' reading all the responses.
My sister went through the opposite. Back a good 10 yrs ago now.
We knew my Ma wasn't well both mentally and physically, I was keeping my distance, as I had a fair idea what was happening, but because Id been a nurse, for some reason Pa decided I was the enemy, I guess he knew I knew he had early dementia, so left him to it.
Anyway Ma came out of hospital unwell so to help her get some decent nutrition it was organised for meals on wheels, for her but Pa stopped them within a week, saying it wasnt food he liked and it was too much. Despite my sister telling him that the food wasnt for him but Ma and it was a diet she liked, he refused. Same with caregivers they stopped them and many swap arounds.
Only ones Pa liked were the ones who broke all rules and accepted extra payment etc[ so he could Lord over them] He died and then the true extent of the problems came to light
fast forward to now.
It really sounds like one your mother doesnt understand that someone with Dementia needs to be allowed to sleep and live in their own clock. Their feeding time isnt the same as hers. And a grumpy aggressive dementia person really isnt worth it, more damage is done.
IF there are no skin problems, that he has no pressure sores that he is maintaining his weight, that he is kept clean. Then your mother needs to back off
Meanwhile have a meeting with not only the carers but the agency supervisor. What are the rules for cell phone use, its very boring doing an 8 hr duty when your client is asleep for 6 of them. [no they dont do housework or polish the silver]
what is acceptable, but playing games isnt.
My Ma is in the dementia unit as she is still mobile and would escape if she could, shhe is awake most nights and sleeps the day away, I can go visit hoping to find her awake but now its nigh impossible. I dont wake her and neither do the staff, she becomes very aggressive and upset to the point of a danger to herself and others. She is weighed monthly so they do see she gets sufficient to eat, her food and snacks are kept in the dept.
That is acceptable
So for you to survive, Demstress, get a physical status on your father, explain to your mother why its actually best for him to sleep as he wants and to forget the usual clock,
IF she cant understand or forgets within a day or two, then sadly I think you will have to realise that she is reaching the elderly state of not comprehending and understanding.
Which often happens when one is relieved of their responsibilities and is hoping for the past to remain.
You dont have an easy task, and certainly dont get in the middle, but do organise meetings and standards of expected care, what points and flags will measure those standards.

As a (professional) care manager/provider (not a family member), often it is best to not engage in what will 99% of the time result in combative and/or argumentative dialogue. For instance, I would 'let' your mom say what she wants to you and do some reflective listening / say "I hear you" - and leave it at that. Do not 'allow' a tiff - that can only happen if two people engage in it. Remove yourself. I hear you Mom - and carry on. Take care of yourself. If you need to leave for 30 seconds-1 minute when she 'starts in' - learn to separate you/r self (emotionally). With a hostile, 'ready to blow' personality/dementia, it is best to agree and do what is necessary. The caregiver can do the same - listen and reflect back - and do what she needs to do. You want to avoid the 'push-pull' which your mom sets up, whether she knows it or not. Do not fall into that trap of right/wrong, good/bad.

Finding out why Mom wants him to wake up is important. Then to establish what is best for Dad, and for all to agree to support that.
Each one is part of the team and needs to be heard, then support
the group agreement. If agreement cannot be made, then all need
to follow Doctor's orders. Open communication is so important.
I have found most strife is basically a failure to effectively communicate.

I absolutely love reading all your comments. I feel so grateful that I am able to consult a wonderful group of caring, knowledgeable people on any issue. I have asked many questions on my journey in helping my parents. My life suddenly changed in August and I had to deal with a combative dementia father on my own while my mother was in the hospital and then in rehab. When she came home from rehab, I had other issues to deal with concerning her care. You have all helped me so much. Thank you for being there. By the way, my mother was all praises for the weekday caregiver today. But as someone, I believe TouchMatters and lucyinthesky said, just acknowledge their concerns with "I hear you" and leave it at that.

I agree with points made by Muffincat, Touchmatters and with you Demstress. I’ve not been in this forum very long, but I read about similar situations from others and suddenly I don’t feel so isolated and insane anymore. Very grateful to have found www.agingcare.com as a support network-There are few orgs available who support adult children, even in my own supposed progressive community, who network and allow caregivers to connect as well as this place. I stress self-care based on years of coping with family dysfunction and now overseeing my aging once very neglectful and abusive parent. It’s little things like helpful reenforcement from a free phone app called Balanced. I’m not here to promote phone apps, but just saying to do whatever it takes for me to be aware of the dynamics of this responsibility and be above the emotional fray when becoming involved in stages of my mothers care, with only one other family member who is far less involved than I.  She is still willing and curious and very intellectual. Those things I’ve admired about her.  It’s the other character traits that are not easy to parse and magnified as she ages... I’m dubbed her enemy and I won’t take it personal anymore. I accept it as part of her aging and confusion and cover my arse in any way possible from a legal standpoint. I’m sure some of those negative traits are passed onto my dna too and that’s a tough pill to swallow. There’s something to be said about becoming more self aware and grieving the loss of the parenting ideal. I just try my best to convey from a place of love for myself and others with empathy for an aging adult who happens to be my mother. 

A word about rude. It's always better to be polite, thoughtful, calm and civil - most of our Mothers taught us that. But aging presents so many situations, personality changes and memory issues that challenge the basic rules of polite society. At 76, I am both getting there AND providing advocacy for a dear friend who has memory loss and lives nearby in Assisted Living - so I can speak from both perspectives. As we age, our attitudes change - both in how we cope or accept what is happening to us and how we perceived others should treat us. And this, of course is the raw basis of the parental attitude attitude of "I took care of you so you should take care of me." Another of attitude issues is the basic power struggle - who get/has to make the defining decisions. So it is, Demstress, that your Mother sees her job, her responsibility and her important role in your Father's life as providing timely nourishment. Maybe instead of trying to get her to "give up" what has been her lifelong duty (keeping the meals flowing), you can talk to her about how important that was to you and him, and how you know it was a lifelong act of love - but NOW, showing love would be to let your Father rest/sleep when he is able. Maybe the caregiver could spend that time with your Mom in some special activity just for her -
saying let's do whatever until your husband wakes up, then we'll sit with him for a while or while he eats. In other words, GIVE her a perk and a job that continues to help mate instead of trying to take one away. I like that you are so appreciative of the caregivers - so many fail to understand what is involved.

Get your father's doctor to write him a Rx (prescription) for "sleep until awakens" - show it to your mother. I got my mother's doc to write a Rx for "Ensure" (she hated it) any time she wouldn't eat - worked like a charm.

I wake my mother up the same time every day...& put her to bed around the same time...she has dementia...you can’t go by what she wants so I make her sleep/wake schedule

Cell phone usage:
eldercarelink.com/In-Home-Care/a-good-in-home-service-has-a-cell-phone-policy-for-caregivers.htm

Sundowners (yelling at the caregivers, especially in the late afternoon to early evening):
sundownerfacts.com/treatments/

I have found light therapy to be very effective. So I never tried the other treatments.

Not all elderly have dementia, contrary to some of the commenters on this site. Some are just as sharp as they ever were. Maybe some of you have allowed your parents to be drugged into oblivion. I avoid all meds and my mind is sharp. I went back to college at age 70 and maintained a 3.88 GPA and made the Dean's list and a national honor roll, so you may need to rethink your one-size-fits-all theories. Doctors are pill pushers and love it when you ask for something to shut down feelings of children and adults, giving them the okay to drug.  Most all of the comments I read here are adversarial to parents and many act as if they are reluctant parents to their elderly. Sickening how you turn caring into controlling.