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I have mom's SS coming to my account (I’m POA- her name is not on account) and I use it all for her monthly supplies and sitter. I have deposited money there to pay her assisted living in the past, as they had direct withdrawal. Will they also need info on the source or account that came from or just how her SS money was spent?

I think you have looked the 5 year look back all wrong. And unless "Mom" transferred the deed to u at time she assigned DPOA to you, you don't own the house. As said, you as POA cannot legally transfer anything out of Moms name. Financial POA means you pay Moms bills. When the money runs out ur not responsible for the bills. You also cannot spend it on yourself.

At this point you may want to talk to a lawyer that is versed in Medicaid. He can help you sort this all out.
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Reply to JoAnn29
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Being DPOA doesn’t entitle you to her assets.
Having DPOA doesn’t legally transfer ownership.

So as your moms DPOA, you used that ability to actually transferred the ownership of her property to yourself?
That is so a problem..... dpoa has a fiduciary duty & transferring moms asset to yourself with no FMV $ to mom is not being a good fiduciary. FMV is known amount, based on assessor value unless you actually have a stamped appraisal done by licensed appraiser with state registration seal. DPOA not doing best fiduciary duty like this gets APS involved & emergency ward of the state done.

Federal law allows for up to 10 yr look back for LTC Medicaid.
States don’t as it’s pretty cumbersome but they can.....
Your state - Alabama - has an outside contractor for estate recovery and for program compliance. They get a fee as per contract AND a % of recovery & asset compliance.
There’s all sort of red flags on your moms situation..... rental income, paying for sitters, cash stash, her SS$ going into your bank account. And property moved without compensation....... State can put her application into Medicaid review Hades. If transfer penalty review is done, facility will be notified. My experience is it will be private pay only to have her there till determination of eligibility done. It will not be pretty.
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lealonnie1 Jan 29, 2020
Wow, good grief. Sounds like the OP needs an Elder Care attorney yesterday to help her figure this whole mess out, huh? Scary stuff
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I think your going to deal with application Hades for various reasons...

So there’s a checking account in your name that has deposits of:
- moms SS$ direct deposit monthly
- monthly checks in her name or cash for rental on home she owns. Rent $ as per FMV rental contract. $ going to her, not to you.
- 1 time only cash $ deposited from ancient cash stash
- $ in her name from hubs life insurance (monthly? Bimonthly?)
Again account in only your name & your SS# attached to it, right? Statements read Your Name, 1234 Main St, Seaside.
Its not Anne Smith with her SS# &/or Roger Smith as signatory.

If this is it, issue will be account is your ownership; it’s in your name & your SS#. If say you get hit by a bus & die, account will freeze as you, the owner, is deceased. It hasn’t been an issue for SSA, I bet, cause y’all did direct deposit routing info ages ago & everything has remain quietly ok. But when LTC Medicaid application done, state is going to want 3-5 years of her financials; & that the bank account is technically yours & your SS # will be a problem. Just how much of a problem to me depends on if mom makes NH new payee for all income & how through & detailed documentation you submit to caseworker who reviews her application initially. I bet it gets flagged for secondary review

now IF you have had some of your own income going into this account, OR you make irregular deposits to cover shortfalls (like plumber emergency & you put in $375 to cover bill), this will imo be bigger issue
- for SSA cause looks commingling of your & moms income & assets
- & for Medicaid looks like there’s extra income coming in for mom
When this happens, usually SSA will make her get a fresh account & you do paperwork to become her representative payee or if she’s in NH on Medicaid the NH becomes her new direct deposit (like what JoAnn posted). Realize SSA does not recognize DPOA. For Medicaid, you need documentation as to why extra $ was deposited & why it’s not income.

For dads life insurance, if she was beneficiary, all $ will be her asset. It would have been reported as to her SS# by insurance co to IRS. She has to be at 2k asset max for individual Medicaid application.

For sitter, you have invoices with dates & time with mom? You may need this if Medicaid wants documentation as to why $ should not be viewed as “gifting”. Non-agency sitters & caregivers are employees for IRS rules with FICA & taxes paid. If mom didn’t do this, really talk with a CPA on doing this & rental $ in her 2019 taxes.

What is plan on moms house?
Please realize once mom applies for LTC NH Medicaid, from then on almost all her monthly income is required to be a copay to NH. Portion of rent as well. I’d really suggest you clearly find out how this must be done for AL LTC Medicaid. When mom dies, house becomes asset of her estate & Medicaid estate recovery factors in. Do you have likely exclusions or exemptions to Medicaid estate recovery? Or other reasons why your moms continuing to keep her home makes sense?
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As of October this year, the POA will reach five years and will be in our name that long, so Medicaid can’t claim it.
I have recognized the house as still hers and have used the rent money for her payments to AL after her cash on hand she had. We just made sure we kept cash on hand for emergencies by cashing the checks monthly until we did need it after her cash ran out.
I just wonder what they do about elderly who have the cash stuck back because they don’t trust banks like my dad did apparently. It was just there, so we paid her rent with it.
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worriedinCali Jan 29, 2020
A POA doesn’t make the house yours and it certainly doesn’t affect the 5 year lookback....are you confusing terms here by any chance? As long as the house is in her name, Medicaid can and will place a lein on it.
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Yes, we have her house rented (ours through POA) out and would just cash the check each month. My parents always beloved on having cash on hand for odd emergencies. So we have records of those payments coming to us of course.
The bit of cash on hand she had when the stroke happened is what I wonder how they deal with. I can’t tell them if she put it back in 1965 or 1985. It was just there.
And yes, we counted the rent in races and all, that’s all good, I know having cash just isn’t the most “modern” way now days, but what do you do when you find a sock of bills grandma kept under the mattress, so to speak. Lol
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anonymous912123 Jan 29, 2020
I don't understand how her house is yours through a POA, if the house is not deeded in your name, it is not yours, and the rental proceeds are to be spent on her. If you are on the deed with her, the same applies, it is her money and Medicaid will approach it that way.
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Are you talking about Medicaid for LTC? If so, Medicaid will require that her SS and any pension go towards her care. They will then pick up the balance of the cost. I allowed my Moms NH to be payee. A small amt of her SS (NJ its $50) will be placed in a Personal Needs Acct for personal things.

SS is a Federal thing. Medicaid is a State. Medicaid will require 5 yrs of Bank statements. If the money had been left in a separate acct with Mom being the holder and you as a signer everything would be cut and dried. The deposits and withdrawals would all be Moms. Now, you have yours and hers together its going to be hard to separate. Hopefully you kept good records.
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RSmith, I would just explain that she kept cash on hand and as they can see you deposited that money and paid for her care.

Sometimes we just have to move forward and deal with whatever comes up. This is one of those times.

You can't change what happened in the past and the more transparent you are the better. Give them more not less, that will show that you may have made honest mistakes, but unintentionally made them, not trying to hide assets or cash. It is what it is and whatever is going to happen will happen, so move forward and deal with things as they come up.
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I don’t take any money from her account, and all her supplies are bought online, so I can provide that.
For the sitter, I payed with a check until last year and she preferred PayPal, so I have that.
I have personal cash from years ago though I have deposited to take care of her rent for a while, then I started using dads life insurance to pay for her rent.
that cash is what I wonder how they will check. I don’t put everything into the bank myself, but that covered her rent until we used the insurance.
Her SS goes into the account with my name, even though it is still her SS. We get the notices at the end of the year and it has her name not mine. The SS office said it was fine her name wasn’t on where it went since I had the POA and was taking care of her supplies and bills.
This is for Alabama, so I know they can stand out from other states with the rules sometimes. (Not always in a positive way!)
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You should set up the account in her name with the term OR instead if JTEN. The JTEN is my minor mistake but it is her account and I keep very good records for probate. Can you still get mom to a bank to complete this?
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Reply to MACinCT
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One should never comingle funds, let alone have another's SS check deposited in your name. The POA will not shelter you from the backlash, all SS funds should be deposited in her name, although you can be added as a JTWOS.

I certainly hope that you have a excellent paper trail. If not, there are many issues on the horizon.
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This is why you don't commingle funds.

You have to account for every penny of her social security check. If you can do that you may be okay, but I think that they want to see bank statements from the account that ss goes into. They know where the money goes and they will question if you received any gifts from her funds. Do you pay the sitter cash or as an employee? That is going to be an issue if you don't pay as an employee.

It gets convoluted when you put the social security check in your account. I would go online and see if your state has the application online and it will tell you what you need to provide, if not call and find out how you get an application.
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Yes they will.
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RSmith1232 Jan 28, 2020
Even though the account is only in my name?
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