She has lived there 4 years. I haven't gone to anyone about this yet until I get more ideas since it is month to month, maybe they would evict her over this? It wasn't done in writing, by the way. Would an ombudsman be a good idea, a lawyer or ???
An example. In this area a baker refused to make a wedding cake for a couple because of the couple's orientation based on his religious beliefs. The couple sued, it went all the was to the supreme court. It was covered at least nationally. Needless to say the baker won. A business is free to make its own rules regardless of the situation.
People just need to STOP taking things so freaking personally!
Glad, in Northern Ireland another baker, known for conservative principles, was targeted (I suspect, anyway) and commissioned to make a cake for Pride celebrations. That went all the legal way too: it took four and a half years and cost well over half a million pounds. £250K of that money came from the Equality Commission who actually prosecuted the case. Like they don't have real hardship caused by flagrant unfair discrimination to be fighting.
I quote from the report: "Mr Lee said the case had made him feel like a second-class citizen and that he was now concerned about 'the implications for all of the gay community.'"
The implications being presumably that they'll have either to choose another baker or make their own cake. The potential suffering hardly bears thinking about.
I try to keep patience and an open mind, and I comfort myself by remembering that it's only the rare exceptions who won't use any bloody common sense in these matters or are actively out to make mischief and thereby the headlines. Most individuals most of the time are pretty good at negotiating life without either running their heads into brick walls or stamping on other people's corns.
Returning partly to have a vent, but SP's question is also relevant:
"It makes no sense to get the shot and still do all that. What really is the point?"
Sense? Sense?!? Who in this whole debate gives a monkey's about sense?
The *point*, though, is that this way I can look my frail, elderly, vulnerable clients and their frightened family members in the eye and tell them truthfully that I (I always say "we," God forgive me) am doing all I can to reduce the risk of transmitting infection.
The vent is this: late yesterday evening, when she really should have been at home, our service manager sent an email instructing all members of staff to attend our main office on Thursday or Friday every week to carry out and register a PCR test. Normally I wouldn't reply, to hear is to obey, I must be the quietest and meekest person on the team, but this was too much. I replied to point out that this means: additional work for our admins and shift leaders additional unnecessary contacts additional journeys into town inferior methods - I can't get my car as clean as my kitchen counter, and I can't wash my hands in the car park.
In short, this is *worse*! Sense? Ha!
Manager replied with understanding and appreciation. She realises how annoying this must be for those team members who have conscientiously conducted their weekly tests and submitted the results (quite. Every week without fail for five months. It's been a feckin' nuisance). But...
Yes of course I get the point: because some people aren't following the rules, we all have to line up and be made to like naughty children. I'm not going to guess how many team members have been dodging because it would depress me, but I do know we've had at least two positives over the last month, because they've been off work and we are already at full stretch.
I maintain vax neutrality when it comes to other people's choices. I'm having all the protection I can get, if anyone asks me I think they should too, but the choice they make is their confidential medical business and in any case I think it's a terrible idea to undermine informed consent which is the basis of medical practice in Western culture. Evil things have happened, and do happen, when that principle has been abandoned.
One of my co-workers doesn't agree. We were ill at the same time, back in January, but I got off lightly whereas he was a whisker away from needing ventilation. He wants anyone fired on the spot if they're not fully vaccinated and in full compliance, and I'm not sure he only means fired from their job. "Harsh, D," I said mildly. I can't repeat his reply.
I'm jumping in (and immediately back out again) to say that I am deeply suspicious about the intent behind this question. We've had several seemingly innocuous pandemic related questions posted by people with zero history on the forum (and they almost never are heard from again), these questions all generate a lot of conflict between members. Trolls?
I am an amateur genealogist, I have documented the many deaths of people in my family tree who died of the Spanish Flu. I also remember the stories my grandmother shared as we stood over the graves of her brothers who died in the Spanish Flu pandemic; one a strong 17-year-old farm boy and one a 19-month-old baby.
Being unvaccinated means you have a greater risk of dying from this virus. Being unvaccinated means you have a greater chance of spreading this virus, maybe to someone who cannot be vaccinated and isn't strong enough to survive.
I do not want to see people die, the rate of real vaccine complications is much lower than complications of the virus, so I want EVERYONE who can be vaccinated. I understand IF the infection numbers continue to rise as they did here in September, there will come a point when there are no more ICU beds and no more ventilators; when that day comes, the death rate will explode. A little less than half the people requiring ventilators die now, but when there are no ventilators available the half that would have lived will die too.
The average age of the dying has lowered in this cycle of infection for East TN; the unvaccinated are younger and the old (65+) have mostly gotten the jab. Just during September, death has come closer with 9-10 people dying each day of covid. A father of my grand-nephew's football teammate has died from covid, his mother is in the ICU now. A school teacher in his younger brother's middle school has died of covid at age 48. My church friend has buried her 36-year-old grandson because of covid and she now worries for the 2 young children who must grow up without a father. My cousin's FIL, although vaccinated, who was immunocompromised from the meds he took to prevent rejection of his kidney and had heart problems, died at 84. Maybe he didn't have too many years left anyway, but he might not have had to die alone hooked up to machines without the comforting touch of someone who loved him.
PLEASE read information from credible sources. A local doctor here stated he hadn't signed a death certificate or treated someone in the ICU for vaccine complications, but he has signed many death certificates for unvaccinated people. A nurse explains how difficult her job has become, caring for people on vents where half will not survive. Ask yourself if you want to be the person that continues the spread. I look at my 7-year-old grand-nephew and ask myself "what would I do to never see him in an ICU on a ventilator" and the answer is "anything". Getting the jab is easy for me.
For many months, I did not speak out about vaccination out of respect for others' opinions. I still respect others' rights to have differing opinions but the September death toll changed my mind about speaking out. Now I want to see more people decide to become vaccinated because I do not want to see more death. If my appeal can change some minds and keep us from hitting the point of rationed care, it will be worth the people who will be angry with me. The rate of infection in East TN has been slightly reduced in the last couple of weeks; along with the deaths we've dropped to only 60-70% of the available ICU beds and ventilators in use. But the health care system is planning for a new surge in a couple of months... and worrying about the people who will die because they are avoiding routine care now. It's not just people delaying doctor appointments, we've had to put on hold "routine" procedures to free resources to care for the covid load.
The vaccine does not prevent you from getting it spreading covid. There is no proof it prevents you from getting hospitalized when you have a 98% chance of only having a mild case. Places that have higher vaccination numbers of vaccinated are having more outbreaks. Ask Israel about that.
Your local doctor may not have treated anyone for vaccine related injuries but that does not mean they don't and have not happened. Without full medical histories regarding the people you cite dying of covid they are just anecdotes and propaganda to me.
Not to mention treatment protocols for these patients. Vents should be a last resort and hospital treatment protocols should be discussed in cause of death of many people. But none of this is ever mentioned. Why?
Same as when others tell stories about issues people have had with the vaxxcines and are told thest instances are anecdotal. A lot of people died from the Spanish flu. Before covid people died and are still dying from the regular flu and pneumonia. It happens. Death from viruses have always happened and death does not discriminate.
The reality is this vaccine is not as effective as they are telling people. After 6 months or so your protection dwindles considerably that's why they are talking indefinite boosters. I don't take the flu vaccine every year and i don't get the flu. So taking the covid vaxx and not getting covid proves nothing because I havent taken it and I have not gotten covid. Others have taken the vaxx and gotten covid.
Please stop spreading the unvaxxed hospitalization propaganda. It is based on old data and hospitals have a perverse incentive to keep this going since they are receiving millions on dollars from the government.
People like you who want everyone vaxxed have an agenda. I have no agenda. If someone wants to take the vaccine go right ahead and do it. But I have a problem when people try and force me or others to get it by trying to destroy their ability to work, etc if I refuse to take it. I have no intention of being the government's or big pharmas b**ch for the rest if my life. Especially since many of the meds pharma makes and are approved cause cancer, dementia, Alzheimer's and more when people take them. Yiu say chances are low you will have an adverse reaction. That is not a chance I am willing to take. Especially since all the vaxx makers are immune from lawsuits from injuries for this vaccine and people like you don't care if somwone takes the shot and suffers complications from it. Based on this alone that is the reason it should be a choice.
You and many other believe the CDC, media, politicians, and the big pharms and their data and statistics. All these sources claim vaccines are safe & effective, and deny any death or injury results from the vax.
I and many other believe the inventor of mRNA (used in the COVID shots), doctors and nurses who have seen the horrible side effects and speak out, and the tens of thousands of suspicious deaths, and more than half a million side effects reported after getting vaccinated just in the US alone.
WE all want to be safe, and our loved ones safe.
You believe that vaccines will keep you safe and by us not taking the vaccines, we endanger you.
We believe the vaccine will harm us and by the government/businesses mandating the vaccines, you will endanger us.
I agree, I want everyone to be as safe as possible.
"You and many other believe the CDC, media, politicians, and the big pharms and their data and statistics"
WRONG, I do not believe the CDC, and I sure don't believe media and politicians! Characterize me fairly, I have stated the basis for my position is statements made by Dr. Pollard at the Mayo Clinic (which I invite everyone to view themselves on youtube), the statistics provided by my local hospital system, the people who stand behind those numbers, and my local doctors and nurses who are making appeals. I believe them. About the only thing I believe the CDC about is the total number of dead. The CDC has become a political organization and often tailors its "recommendations" on what is politically correct (which is one reason we find mask mandates resulting in kids running track races with a mask on when there is NO scientific study which supports this as limiting covid spread).
Agree with all that our objective is to keep our aging loved ones healthy, safe and well cared for. In an effort to return the focus to the Caregiver Forum's ability to support that goal, we are closing this thread for further comment. Thanks
People just need to STOP taking things so freaking personally!
https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/04/politics/masterpiece-colorado-gay-marriage-cake-supreme-court/index.html
I quote from the report: "Mr Lee said the case had made him feel like a second-class citizen and that he was now concerned about 'the implications for all of the gay community.'"
The implications being presumably that they'll have either to choose another baker or make their own cake. The potential suffering hardly bears thinking about.
I try to keep patience and an open mind, and I comfort myself by remembering that it's only the rare exceptions who won't use any bloody common sense in these matters or are actively out to make mischief and thereby the headlines. Most individuals most of the time are pretty good at negotiating life without either running their heads into brick walls or stamping on other people's corns.
"It makes no sense to get the shot and still do all that. What really is the point?"
Sense? Sense?!? Who in this whole debate gives a monkey's about sense?
The *point*, though, is that this way I can look my frail, elderly, vulnerable clients and their frightened family members in the eye and tell them truthfully that I (I always say "we," God forgive me) am doing all I can to reduce the risk of transmitting infection.
The vent is this: late yesterday evening, when she really should have been at home, our service manager sent an email instructing all members of staff to attend our main office on Thursday or Friday every week to carry out and register a PCR test. Normally I wouldn't reply, to hear is to obey, I must be the quietest and meekest person on the team, but this was too much. I replied to point out that this means:
additional work for our admins and shift leaders
additional unnecessary contacts
additional journeys into town
inferior methods - I can't get my car as clean as my kitchen counter, and I can't wash my hands in the car park.
In short, this is *worse*! Sense? Ha!
Manager replied with understanding and appreciation. She realises how annoying this must be for those team members who have conscientiously conducted their weekly tests and submitted the results (quite. Every week without fail for five months. It's been a feckin' nuisance). But...
Yes of course I get the point: because some people aren't following the rules, we all have to line up and be made to like naughty children. I'm not going to guess how many team members have been dodging because it would depress me, but I do know we've had at least two positives over the last month, because they've been off work and we are already at full stretch.
I maintain vax neutrality when it comes to other people's choices. I'm having all the protection I can get, if anyone asks me I think they should too, but the choice they make is their confidential medical business and in any case I think it's a terrible idea to undermine informed consent which is the basis of medical practice in Western culture. Evil things have happened, and do happen, when that principle has been abandoned.
One of my co-workers doesn't agree. We were ill at the same time, back in January, but I got off lightly whereas he was a whisker away from needing ventilation. He wants anyone fired on the spot if they're not fully vaccinated and in full compliance, and I'm not sure he only means fired from their job. "Harsh, D," I said mildly. I can't repeat his reply.
We've had several seemingly innocuous pandemic related questions posted by people with zero history on the forum (and they almost never are heard from again), these questions all generate a lot of conflict between members. Trolls?
Being unvaccinated means you have a greater risk of dying from this virus. Being unvaccinated means you have a greater chance of spreading this virus, maybe to someone who cannot be vaccinated and isn't strong enough to survive.
I do not want to see people die, the rate of real vaccine complications is much lower than complications of the virus, so I want EVERYONE who can be vaccinated. I understand IF the infection numbers continue to rise as they did here in September, there will come a point when there are no more ICU beds and no more ventilators; when that day comes, the death rate will explode. A little less than half the people requiring ventilators die now, but when there are no ventilators available the half that would have lived will die too.
The average age of the dying has lowered in this cycle of infection for East TN; the unvaccinated are younger and the old (65+) have mostly gotten the jab. Just during September, death has come closer with 9-10 people dying each day of covid. A father of my grand-nephew's football teammate has died from covid, his mother is in the ICU now. A school teacher in his younger brother's middle school has died of covid at age 48. My church friend has buried her 36-year-old grandson because of covid and she now worries for the 2 young children who must grow up without a father. My cousin's FIL, although vaccinated, who was immunocompromised from the meds he took to prevent rejection of his kidney and had heart problems, died at 84. Maybe he didn't have too many years left anyway, but he might not have had to die alone hooked up to machines without the comforting touch of someone who loved him.
PLEASE read information from credible sources. A local doctor here stated he hadn't signed a death certificate or treated someone in the ICU for vaccine complications, but he has signed many death certificates for unvaccinated people. A nurse explains how difficult her job has become, caring for people on vents where half will not survive. Ask yourself if you want to be the person that continues the spread. I look at my 7-year-old grand-nephew and ask myself "what would I do to never see him in an ICU on a ventilator" and the answer is "anything". Getting the jab is easy for me.
For many months, I did not speak out about vaccination out of respect for others' opinions. I still respect others' rights to have differing opinions but the September death toll changed my mind about speaking out. Now I want to see more people decide to become vaccinated because I do not want to see more death. If my appeal can change some minds and keep us from hitting the point of rationed care, it will be worth the people who will be angry with me. The rate of infection in East TN has been slightly reduced in the last couple of weeks; along with the deaths we've dropped to only 60-70% of the available ICU beds and ventilators in use. But the health care system is planning for a new surge in a couple of months... and worrying about the people who will die because they are avoiding routine care now. It's not just people delaying doctor appointments, we've had to put on hold "routine" procedures to free resources to care for the covid load.
Your local doctor may not have treated anyone for vaccine related injuries but that does not mean they don't and have not happened. Without full medical histories regarding the people you cite dying of covid they are just anecdotes and propaganda to me.
Not to mention treatment protocols for these patients. Vents should be a last resort and hospital treatment protocols should be discussed in cause of death of many people. But none of this is ever mentioned. Why?
Same as when others tell stories about issues people have had with the vaxxcines and are told thest instances are anecdotal. A lot of people died from the Spanish flu. Before covid people died and are still dying from the regular flu and pneumonia. It happens. Death from viruses have always happened and death does not discriminate.
The reality is this vaccine is not as effective as they are telling people. After 6 months or so your protection dwindles considerably that's why they are talking indefinite boosters. I don't take the flu vaccine every year and i don't get the flu. So taking the covid vaxx and not getting covid proves nothing because I havent taken it and I have not gotten covid. Others have taken the vaxx and gotten covid.
Please stop spreading the unvaxxed hospitalization propaganda. It is based on old data and hospitals have a perverse incentive to keep this going since they are receiving millions on dollars from the government.
People like you who want everyone vaxxed have an agenda. I have no agenda. If someone wants to take the vaccine go right ahead and do it. But I have a problem when people try and force me or others to get it by trying to destroy their ability to work, etc if I refuse to take it. I have no intention of being the government's or big pharmas b**ch for the rest if my life. Especially since many of the meds pharma makes and are approved cause cancer, dementia, Alzheimer's and more when people take them. Yiu say chances are low you will have an adverse reaction. That is not a chance I am willing to take. Especially since all the vaxx makers are immune from lawsuits from injuries for this vaccine and people like you don't care if somwone takes the shot and suffers complications from it. Based on this alone that is the reason it should be a choice.
You and many other believe the CDC, media, politicians, and the big pharms and their data and statistics. All these sources claim vaccines are safe & effective, and deny any death or injury results from the vax.
I and many other believe the inventor of mRNA (used in the COVID shots), doctors and nurses who have seen the horrible side effects and speak out, and the tens of thousands of suspicious deaths, and more than half a million side effects reported after getting vaccinated just in the US alone.
WE all want to be safe, and our loved ones safe.
You believe that vaccines will keep you safe and by us not taking the vaccines, we endanger you.
We believe the vaccine will harm us and by the government/businesses mandating the vaccines, you will endanger us.
Fair?
Also, vaxxers should stop with the insults.
"You and many other believe the CDC, media, politicians, and the big pharms and their data and statistics"
WRONG, I do not believe the CDC, and I sure don't believe media and politicians! Characterize me fairly, I have stated the basis for my position is statements made by Dr. Pollard at the Mayo Clinic (which I invite everyone to view themselves on youtube), the statistics provided by my local hospital system, the people who stand behind those numbers, and my local doctors and nurses who are making appeals. I believe them. About the only thing I believe the CDC about is the total number of dead. The CDC has become a political organization and often tailors its "recommendations" on what is politically correct (which is one reason we find mask mandates resulting in kids running track races with a mask on when there is NO scientific study which supports this as limiting covid spread).