She has lived there 4 years. I haven't gone to anyone about this yet until I get more ideas since it is month to month, maybe they would evict her over this? It wasn't done in writing, by the way. Would an ombudsman be a good idea, a lawyer or ???
If there is a medical reason for your mother not to have the vaccine, or arguably if she just feels strongly about it; and if she is happy to be regularly tested and to test on the morning of the event she wants to attend; then with all due respect to the various authorities I would be inclined to support your mother in thinking that this outright ban on her attendance is unreasonable even if not illegal.
I'd be interested to learn what records the ALF is keeping on its staff's vaccinations, too. If you were feeling mischievous you might like to ask them.
That said, I personally am a strict complier - I've just had my six-month booster jab with not a ghost of an ill-effect, I still wear a mask in all public venues and full PPE at clients' homes, and if the rules said we all had to stuff a pickled onion in our left ear to be on the safe side I'd probably keep a straight face and go right ahead. In a way it isn't about medical or statistical certainties, it's about good manners and the social contract.
What is your mother's main objection (apart from a disinclination to be pushed around, which I can fully understand but don't agree it's worth the hassle)?
Thank goodness many decades ago we didn't have this type of thinking regarding small pox and polio, otherwise we would still be dealing with those dreadful diseases. Everyone back then rolled up their sleeve for the cause.
Isn't that the truth??? I remember there was a bit of discussion in my family about the polio vaccine (we are African Americans as and you probably know the past relationship with the medical profession has not been good) but........................ when it was time to get that shot.. we did it .
People are reading the data on vaccinated people dying at higher rates than un-vaxxed. They are extrapolating the data incorrectly!
I just spent some time reading articles and comments from virologists and immunology specialists. And talking to Dr. Joe, my SIL.
NOT ONE person said the vaccine was the 'savior' of the people, but a really good way to do what vaccines DO: create immunity, esp herd immunity, which is what we need.
As the population is more and more vaccinated, people are still catching COVID, that's a known factor in diseases. Some vaccinated people will get sick. B/C there are more vaxxed people dying, but that's b/c there's MORE VAXXED people than, say a year ago.
I'm old enough to remember polio & smallpox. We didn't say a word, just rolled up our sleeves or ate the little sugar cube. EVERYBODY did it. I do not remember my folks having to sign anything to give the school permission to vaccinate me.
Whooping cough is making a comeback. I have 14 grandkids and their parents all asked my DH and I to get boosters for that. We did so, happily.
I am fully vaxxed, plus a booster. Yes, it made me hella sick, but that just means I got a good immunity to it.
I respect anyone's right to not be vaccinated. But I won't hang out with you.
Dr SIL's own parents refuse to be vaccinated. Even now after they went through COVID and his mom should have been in the hospital. He will not allow them around his kiddoes AT ALL. Their loss, as they are now not getting the jab to show their son they can't be bossed. SMH
And yes, he's lost patients to covid. In his case, not one of them was vaccinated. I'm not making any point except that he said in his hospital, not one patient in the ICU had been vaxxed, as of Saturday.
Personally, I can't take another winter being locked indoors and living in fear. We take precautions, we are careful and we got vaccinated. Our choice.
I hate the fear that pervades. These vaccines were built upon previously created vaccines--they have been as researched as they could be. All medical science stands on the shoulders of previous studies--that's why they were able to get workable vaccines out so fast.
Midkid58, I had similar afterward affects with the Booster like I did with the 2nd shot, and like you, I knew my body was working. Heck, it's better than getting the virus itself.
Woooohoooo, that Booster gave me an uplifting feeling. Like it was freedom to go places with very little worry. Yes, I too, also have my mask ready if it needs to be worn.
Is there a reason she did not get vaccinated? Frankly I'm 76 and I prefer to be around people who are vaccinated. I think it is considerate of others to refrain from social events if you are not vaccinated.
She spends all of her time in a group setting, like a college dorm, or a business. They have the right to make the rules, so get her the shot, or find somewhere else for her to live that doesn't require it. (Good luck with that.)
There is zero legal precedent for you to stand on to demand they change the rules for Mom, so don't make a mountain out of a molehill.
Get the shot. My mother had Covid in January, and it destroyed her circulatory system. It didn't kill her, but she had huge open wounds on her legs for the rest of her life. Dying is not necessarily the worst thing to happen from Covid -- sometimes the after effects are pretty horrible, too. I can't believe you'd risk that.
I'm jumping in (and immediately back out again) to say that I am deeply suspicious about the intent behind this question. We've had several seemingly innocuous pandemic related questions posted by people with zero history on the forum (and they almost never are heard from again), these questions all generate a lot of conflict between members. Trolls?
Nonsense. Funny you don't have to show proof of vaccination to get a job. But now you have to show proof of this one particular shot to keep your job. What medical intervention will they require you to have next to keep or get a job?
I’m sorry but this is a probably a simple contract dispute.
In the AL contract there is usually a section that will say the AL has the right to require certain vaccinations and that the AL shall choose which vaccinations. If this is the case then your mom may be in breach of contract. The AL may choose to enforce the contract or terminate it (as permitted by law).
Your mom is not incarcerated. She has not been kidnapped. She may leave anytime she, or her guardian, wants.
You say the AL is her home and she should be free to do as she wishes as if she were home. But you are wrong. It’s a business. Your mom is a customer. She pays to be there just like the other customers. If there are rules she is contractually obligated to follow and does not want to follow those rules then she must find another business to live at.
I'd be interested to learn what records the ALF is keeping on its staff's vaccinations, too. If you were feeling mischievous you might like to ask them.
That said, I personally am a strict complier - I've just had my six-month booster jab with not a ghost of an ill-effect, I still wear a mask in all public venues and full PPE at clients' homes, and if the rules said we all had to stuff a pickled onion in our left ear to be on the safe side I'd probably keep a straight face and go right ahead. In a way it isn't about medical or statistical certainties, it's about good manners and the social contract.
What is your mother's main objection (apart from a disinclination to be pushed around, which I can fully understand but don't agree it's worth the hassle)?
I just spent some time reading articles and comments from virologists and immunology specialists. And talking to Dr. Joe, my SIL.
NOT ONE person said the vaccine was the 'savior' of the people, but a really good way to do what vaccines DO: create immunity, esp herd immunity, which is what we need.
As the population is more and more vaccinated, people are still catching COVID, that's a known factor in diseases. Some vaccinated people will get sick. B/C there are more vaxxed people dying, but that's b/c there's MORE VAXXED people than, say a year ago.
I'm old enough to remember polio & smallpox. We didn't say a word, just rolled up our sleeves or ate the little sugar cube. EVERYBODY did it. I do not remember my folks having to sign anything to give the school permission to vaccinate me.
Whooping cough is making a comeback. I have 14 grandkids and their parents all asked my DH and I to get boosters for that. We did so, happily.
I am fully vaxxed, plus a booster. Yes, it made me hella sick, but that just means I got a good immunity to it.
I respect anyone's right to not be vaccinated. But I won't hang out with you.
Dr SIL's own parents refuse to be vaccinated. Even now after they went through COVID and his mom should have been in the hospital. He will not allow them around his kiddoes AT ALL. Their loss, as they are now not getting the jab to show their son they can't be bossed. SMH
And yes, he's lost patients to covid. In his case, not one of them was vaccinated. I'm not making any point except that he said in his hospital, not one patient in the ICU had been vaxxed, as of Saturday.
Personally, I can't take another winter being locked indoors and living in fear. We take precautions, we are careful and we got vaccinated. Our choice.
I hate the fear that pervades. These vaccines were built upon previously created vaccines--they have been as researched as they could be. All medical science stands on the shoulders of previous studies--that's why they were able to get workable vaccines out so fast.
I'm personally so grateful for them.
Woooohoooo, that Booster gave me an uplifting feeling. Like it was freedom to go places with very little worry. Yes, I too, also have my mask ready if it needs to be worn.
They have the right to make the rules, so get her the shot, or find somewhere else for her to live that doesn't require it. (Good luck with that.)
There is zero legal precedent for you to stand on to demand they change the rules for Mom, so don't make a mountain out of a molehill.
Get the shot. My mother had Covid in January, and it destroyed her circulatory system. It didn't kill her, but she had huge open wounds on her legs for the rest of her life. Dying is not necessarily the worst thing to happen from Covid -- sometimes the after effects are pretty horrible, too. I can't believe you'd risk that.
No guarantee that the vax won't kill you.
It is very much about how healthy you are before you get the shot or virus.
I am sorry that your mom suffered in her last days.
We've had several seemingly innocuous pandemic related questions posted by people with zero history on the forum (and they almost never are heard from again), these questions all generate a lot of conflict between members. Trolls?
In the AL contract there is usually a section that will say the AL has the right to require certain vaccinations and that the AL shall choose which vaccinations. If this is the case then your mom may be in breach of contract. The AL may choose to enforce the contract or terminate it (as permitted by law).
Your mom is not incarcerated. She has not been kidnapped. She may leave anytime she, or her guardian, wants.
You say the AL is her home and she should be free to do as she wishes as if she were home. But you are wrong. It’s a business. Your mom is a customer. She pays to be there just like the other customers. If there are rules she is contractually obligated to follow and does not want to follow those rules then she must find another business to live at.