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My mom is "her way or the highway" w/ mid stage Alzheimer's. She is always right and thinks she is perfectly fine and remembers exactly what happened 100% total denial of any memory issues ever. In this instance I am stuck with a big problem, if I lie, tell the truth do anything other than agree with my mom she insists we are wrong. period, you could not reason with her before dementia but not now at all. She had a caregiver go to the store to get her cigs but then without her knowledge used the card to get over $1200 cash back over 2 days of which she pocketed. She didn't know we watch the bank records closely & caught it immediately fired her, filed a police report etc (she was the only one that could of used the card and on camera during this time etc) mom was amazed this could happen. Well it's all changed around now in her mind and now we fired her needlessly - because she asked for the money to pay a bill and we are wrong and she wants her back now and we are to blame and we wrongfully accused her and she's been calling her cell phone etc it goes on and on. Her whole story as to her not stealing the cash is 100% made up. She won't accept ANY other care and is so messed up this is really throwing her but insists we are wrong and to hell with us she wants her back she did nothing wrong . Very mean insistent etc and won't let it go it's been 3 weeks.

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Let her insist you’re wrong, it changes nothing and doesn’t hurt anything. You know her diagnosis and that she’s no longer capable of good decisions so no arguing, just accepting that you now make the best decisions you can for her, whether she likes it or not. Hire a new caregiver if that’s what she needs. Block the number of the fired one on mom's phone. I’m sorry you’re dealing with such tough behavior, never let it make you feel like you’re not looking out for mom, even though she can’t appreciate it
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Sunshinejello Jul 20, 2021
ok you hit the nail on the head for me! She is incompetent and she makes me feel like the bad daughter i have to let it go, even though it's repeated every day. I blocked the number but it doesn't stop my mom from dialing her! Mom still calls her every day and at least leaves a short message i know this from the phone records. thank you for replying it made me feel better i'm trying to get a new careperson so far it's not happening she refuses anyone. One person said tell her a caregiver or a facility- i like the idea however again there is no rationalizing at all with her she just isn't capable. she will just continue the rant "i want her back!" " you are wrong she never took any money" "you aren't here you don't know anything". This site has been so helpful on many topics . thanks again.
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Good advice on this thread. I wouldn't take her back, and I would fire the agency too. If your Mom's insurance is paying that agency, then file a grievance with the insurance company too. If a hospital or facility recommended the agency, then file a grievance against the agency with the hospital or facility.

Additionally, I would delete that woman's and the agency contact info from your Mom's phone and clear out her history. Erase any trace of these problem people- biz cards, binders, folders, etc. from your mother's reach. If you need to keep records, put them in a file case and keep it in YOUR car.

Then tell your mom that the agency no longer takes her insurance, went defunct, doesn't have enough staff, whatever, etc. You can even tell Mom that a different client had the caregiver arrested for stealing and the state is investigating the agency.

At this point, do and say whatever works. Less is more. Other than that, if Mom continues to ask about the caregiver, either you pelt your mom with questions about what she needs at this moment/what can I help you with, immediately change the subject, or ignore her and walk away.
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disgustedtoo 23 hours ago
All of the above!
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Do not allow that caregiver back into your moms house. I am glad you filed a police report. In the future I would not allow any caregiver access to credit/debit cards. There is always delivery service you can set up and pay yourself with your moms card.
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Sunshinejello Jul 22, 2021
She was from an agency ! And the agency never returned a call after I called to fire her and tell them what happened. It is sad - this agency used to be highly recommended but they did nothing, said nothing, did not offer a replacement and i think may still be sending her to clients! The police report is there. I have to say my vibe from this person was already heightened when she'd missed some appointments and the story was always a good one my mother felt sorry for her.
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While it may be a little underhanded, you could tell mom you called and she doesn't work there anymore.
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disgustedtoo 23 hours ago
Fibs R Us!!!

That was going to be my suggestion. Drop the chit chat about stealing and just say she no longer works as a care-giver. Great that you've blocked the number, but sad that she can still call the person. Okay if she leaves messages, because the woman can't call her back, but... You could try calling her service provider to see if there is a way to block her from making calls to certain numbers. There is at least one APP out there that can do this:
https://pocketables.com/2013/05/block-outgoing-calls-app-lets-you-loan-your-phone-in-peace.html

Disclaimer: I know nothing about this APP or company. I don't add APPs to my phone and ignore any calls that aren't programmed in my phone. I won't call any back either, so I don't need this capability. But, I think there are also phones made for those with dementia that only allow certain numbers for incoming/outgoing calls.

I would NOT give this woman a second chance, despite what some have said. You have a police report already. Should she do something else, then who is going to believe you, since you brought her back? Nope, done.

So, for mom, after repeating that this woman isn't taking clients, mom gets to choose:

1) another care-giver
2) facility

Those are the options mom. Make your choice.

Agree with advice about the card (good that you've taken it away!) One thing to confirm is that any debit/visa prepaid card doesn't have any kind of overdraft associated with it. Load with a minimal amount and if it's used up, no more buying until it's reloaded!

Also, yes to the ignore what she says about you. Most of it is the dementia talking, but in some cases the person was like that before. YOU have value, YOU are doing a great service for your mother, SHE is ungrateful (partly due to D, maybe some just because.) WE appreciate you and your service!
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It's never a good idea to give other people access to a bank account or credit card belonging to a person with dementia. I think it's better to have cash around for household expenses. At least the damage will be limited. And when "strangers" are in the house, lock up all financial papers and valuables. At this point, it would be better if all financial statements are sent only to the Power of Attorney's (POA) (for financial matters) place. Hopefully all of your mother's paperwork for POAs (medical and financial), living will, will (if there are assets), etc. are in place. I wouldn't recommend taking back a person who steals. Don't lie. Find another agency, if this one isn't responsive. Try getting another caregiver who suits your mother, but remember also that people in her condition may be particularly vulnerable and may not make good decisions. It sounds like she likes caregivers who are friendly and talkative. You can also look into adult day care where she will leave the house and have some activities that get her with other people, if this is available in her area. Sometimes they have shuttle buses that pick up the clients. Find out what options are available in her area.
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Reply to NancyIS
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You need to get mom evaluated asap.
* Change credit card, all bank cards.
* Report this woman / caregiver, esp if you have proof.
What you can NO LONGER do is 'think' you can reason with your mother.
You cannot.
Of course she will argue and complain. This is part of dementia.
You can no longer talk to her as she used to be before dementia. Her brain has changed.
IF there is nothing legal you can do to safe guard her accounts, then she will suffer the consequences, financially. However, if I were you, I'd run to the nearest elder care attorney and see what you can do.
* Her MD needs to provide / write up / document her diagnosis.
* Do press charges regarding this caregiver stealing. It DOESN'T matter what your mother wants in this regard. Get rid of her.
AND . . . . As Wolflover says: "if your mother is that bad with memory you need to take away all credit/debit cards as she should not be using them, let alone giving them to someone else to use. she is lucky it was only that amount of money. and shame on that "so-called" caregiver to take advantage of someone who is losing their memory. You did the right thing. Tell your mom that the decision has been made and no more talking about it. she won't like it and will squawk about it forever but it is what it is." . . . . Your mom will MORE THAN SQUAWK. Say "I understand" and do what you need to do.

Gena / Touch Matters
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What do you mean when you say "won't accept any other care"?

Is your mother physically capable of blockading the door?

Do you think it might be time to place her in a facility?

You seem to be saying mom was stubborn and willfull BEFORE dementia. This type of patient rarely gets optimal treatment.

I would chalk this up to her personality and simply say "she's not coming back, mom" and leave it at that.
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Sunshinejello Jul 20, 2021
She is physically amazing gets around just fine but the alzheimer's is so evident on every thing out of her routine. Because she is such a type A personality you can't discuss anything with her the Alzheimer's Association said try to make things " her idea " try to make it like she thought it up or it was her suggestion and that does work if you can get to that point.
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Even if what mom is saying is true I would not hire back a person that I fired. I would offer to provide references (if what your mom perceives is true, I would obviously not provide them for someone that stole)
Tell mom that the person is working for someone else. Block the number on all the phones.
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Reply to Grandma1954
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My mother was the exact same way in terms of never being wrong and not ever letting things go. She’d get on a subject or have a thought pattern and you couldn’t change her mind. We had a very similar problem with a part time live in caregiver who we thought was not only taking money from her but was also leaving the house in a horrible mess. We didn’t ask her to do any cleaning per se but did expect her to keep the room she was staying in in decent shape. Finally the hardest thing we had to realize was that despite my mother’s rather significant degree of dementia, she wasn’t at the point to be declared totally incompetent. She was great at “faking good” in front of a doctor or government official. My sisters and I all lived out of state and my mother insisted she was fine and wasn’t moving! I had POA but couldn’t do much since she was considered competent to make decisions. We called APS to come out and they refused to get involved as WE were involved so closely and all in all she looked pretty good. We tried everything to have her move into an AL facility or to at least move closer to one of us. She refused. Finally we decided we would have to let her fail and this is what happened. As sad as it is sometimes, parents have to sometimes FAIL and as children we have little choice but to keep as close an eye out as possible until they do. Fortunately my mother FAILED while we were visiting her. She fell during a time that my husband and I were there for a few days and while the caregiver was gone. Sadly she broke her hip and shoulder and from that point forward we were able to facilitate a placement after her rehab. The caregiver was removed from the home and it was at that point we found out just how horrible and nasty things had really gotten in the bedroom in which the caregiver stayed. There were bugs due to have eaten food in drawers and trash everywhere. All the alcohol that had been in a closed liquor cabinet was gone. The caregiver had told us she didn’t drink. I say all this to let you know that this is a VERY difficult situation and there is little to no control. There is no reasoning that will work and you never know what you’re getting with caregivers. Be kind to yourself, do what you can but sometimes people simply have to fail to some degree before they will accept help. Best of luck…
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disgustedtoo 23 hours ago
"I had POA but couldn’t do much since she was considered competent to make decisions."

If it's any consolation, even if they HAVE dementia, POAs are not sufficient to "force" any changes, like a move to facility. My mother's plans, pre-dementia, included AL. Post-dementia? She refused to consider moving anywhere, esp NOT AL. The EC atty told me we could force her to move. POAs only give us legal capability to do certain things, like manage finances, pay bills, sign documents, etc. They do NOT give us full sway over anyone.

I can feel for you about her being able to "fool" others. Although the atty recommended going for guardianship, there were issues:
1) She likely would have been able to pass the "tests" at that point
2) It takes time and money to get that done and may fail
3) The facility we chose wouldn't take committals!

That last one was the real clincher. The place was great, the location ideal for me (99.9% of all that was needed I had to manage) and being non-profit it was actually less expensive than the other options we looked at.

Cue Fibs R Us. She managed to injure her shin and develop cellulitis just before the move was scheduled. Trip to the ER with OB who came up for the move and antibiotics, wound treatment, etc. YB drafted a "letter" from 'Elder Services' that said she goes to a place we choose or they will place her! She was madder than a wet hen, but reluctantly went with the bros.
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Unfortunately, Your mom does not remember the facts of the incident. She only remembers this person as her caregiver. A truth she might be able to accept is that "she is not available as a caregiver anymore" (since we caught her stealing from you) is probably the best way to get you mom to stop as insisting this person care for her. Follow this up with, "We have contacted another nice person to care for you. Please giver her a try." Then, change the subject. Once the new person is becomes the "usual caretaker" in her mind, she should stop obsessing about the person your fired.
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