How do you deal with the irrational behavior in public when your mom shows out and turns on you in front of everyone?

Guardianship should not cost quite that much, but laws and ways around this vary from state to state and attorney to attorney. (One question is whether you can afford the likely alternative scenarios! An adult is legally conisdered to be their own guardian until it is way beyond obvious they are incapacitated...and if you want their health care information, even beyond that...) But seriouslly, there are also alternatives to guardianships in most states. I was just reading the Texas Guide to Adult Garudianship and it goes over multiple options that may work instead. Adult Protective Services or social services can help for a person who cannot care for themselves, and eventually someone would have to step in should she become homeless. The website www.guardianship.org is not all that helpful, but I found this on a Florida website Q and A:

"IS THE GUARDIAN LIABLE FOR THE WARDS DEBTS?
No. Unlike the parent-minor child relationship, the Guardian does not have to pay the ward’s debts from the Guardian’s pocket.

WHAT ARE THE COSTS AND ATTORNEY FEES INVOLVED?
The Court filing fee is $400 for a Guardianship of the Person and Property ($235 if Guardianship of the Person only), and an additional $231 for the incapacity portion of the case. The attorney fee varies based on the amount of work required and whether there is an emergency situation and may be many months after the Guardianship is established. The Judge will appoint two doctors and a lay person; that fee is usually $750. Also, the Court will appoint an attorney for the person that needs assistance. That fee is usually around $400. If the ward has assets, that fee is paid from those assets, if not, the County pays that fee.

CAN THE GUARDIAN BE REIMBURSED FOR COSTS?
Absolutely. The Guardian is also eligible for a fee for going to Court and meeting with the attorney and handling the affairs of the ward. The Court could award fees of approximately $25 per hour or more in certain cases. Of course, if the ward has no money, there will be no funds to pay such fees. Some Guardians ask for a fee, some don’t. A fee is taxable income. Reimbursement of costs is not taxable."

Guardianship is still a huge reponsibility and requires a lot more court invovlement and paperwork than POA, including annual reporting, so it is a shame that it is probably beyond the point to legitimately do that for Mom instead. Just a representative payee account might be enough to help you financially, and that is not as hard to do (invovles limited documents and a trip to the local Social Security office) and more info on that is at www.ssa.gov/payee/faqrep.htm. It is for sure beyond overwhelming to try to get a handle on all of it. I did not know *any* of this before I went through it with my mom and dad. It might be that you can get a free or inexpensive initial consultation from an eldercare attorney on what may be best that could help get you all going in the right direction.

I am sooo grateful for this site and all these answers!!! I agree with a lot that Pamela Sue says - for example my father wasn't "there for me" growing up but now since I am the only biological child all these health care people are like the roles are reversed. Not exactly. It's so frustrating and heartwrenching. And I also agree the public does NOT understand dementia and bad public behavior. Ask the lady that my father continued to bark at in a mexican restaurant. I apologized to her but that didn't make it any less uncomfortable or humiliating for me or for her - and he thought it was soooo funny. And on the flip side I have his home help agency people and his local doctor acting like he is ok - uh, no - who in their right mind barks at a stranger in a restaurant? Or shakes a baseball bat at the door of a pharmacy - that is NOT normal!!! So tired and so frustrated!!!

PurpleOrchids, start to make it easier for yourself. Get a list and go shopping alone. You could call your Mom to get the list. Before we moved Mom in with us I was able to place grocery orders online and have someone take her to pick up the order. Like you, I am POA and have been paying Mom's bills for a long time. I am a signer on her accounts which makes things easier for me. Before things got so bad, I became an authorized person on Mom's health insurance and medicare. I didn't realize what a good move that was at the time. But now, when I have a question or need some help, I don't need Mom to get on the phone at all.

So I'll repeat what I said earlier. Do what you can to make it easier for yourself. That is not selfish, it will make it better for you to be available to help your parents in other ways - not to mention easing your burden a little. Feel the hugs! BEE

I haven't signed on in a while but I'm still here. Mom is living with us and her mid stage dementia is progressing. I see things changing monthly. She no longer gets her birth date right. She knows the numbers but puts them in the wrong order. She wants to send holiday cards to her parents and talks to me as though I'm her deceased older sister.
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Anyway, the reason I decided to post is that I recently came upon a difficult situation with Mom that has been recurring and I ran out of ideas on how to redirect her. In desperation, I called the Alzheimer Association Hot Line that I've known about for years. It took a lot for me to make that call but I'm so glad I did.

I was on hold for a minute or so after I gave the intake person some information. Then rather than stay on hold I said it was okay for someone to call me back. I'm so glad I did! I spoke with a counselor named Rachel who was insightful, supportive and compassionate and had good ideas.

Please, if you need some good advice, moral support or just need someone to talk to, call the AA Hotline. There are counselors available 24/7 and it's free. Your relatives and friends are not always available.

Appleseed1, you are not alone in this and your situation ... as well as everyone else's ... is hard! And hang on to you boots because it can get harder and harder. BUT...you need to trust yourself. You will find solutions. When you think you can't - vent here or anywhere else you feel comfortable. Tell your family what you need - they may not want to hear you but you can't keep quiet. Take care of yourself because you are no good to anyone if you don't.

I go to the Alzheimer's Reading Room online sometimes and I subscribe to their email newsletter. Even though many of you have more difficult situations, I realize our's is getting harder and I know in my heart that I don't want regrets. So when Mom is at her very worst, I remind myself that I am talking to a disease, not my mother.

When Mom first moved in, I corrected things she said because I thought it was important that she have correct information. NOT SO!!!

I've printed a little quotation I read in an AA email: "Do you want to be right or do you want Peace?" I spend a fair amount of time in my kitchen so it's on my frig. I don't have to look at it. I know it's there and knowing that helps me refocus many times a day!

As sstayton said, with AA and Dementia, every 5 minutes can change. Let me recommend a paperback book I have to all of you. It's entitled "Creating Moments of Joy" by Jolene Brackey. I purchased it on Amazon. The chapters are typically short so I can sneak to my bathroom and read a little to try to break the tension I may be feeling. I've used a highlighter all through the book.

Big Hugs to all of you!! I hope you find Moments of Joy this weekend.
Carolyn aka BEE

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My heart goes to all of you. This journey is a tough one. I think that every time I complete a step toward making things a little more reasonable, my parents' physical and mental health declines even more. In addition to paying their bills and POA for all their finances, mom calls every day while I'm at work with what I call her 'what can you do for me today?' call. If I say okay to anything, she wants more. When we're in public she's sweet to everyone out loud, but says very nasty things in a quieter voice. If I take her to the grocery store and tell her I can afford for her to pick up about 30 dollars worth of things, she has at least twice that amount in her carriage and says to me out loud for all to hear, 'Oh, I might have spent more than 30 dollars. Do you need me to put some of these things back?' I saw the faces of everyone in the checkout line the last time that happened, and felt like the meanest person in the world. In fact, I wanted to write to the local newspaper, "If you saw me at the grocery store on Thursday, please understand that my mom needs a lot of help from me and I'm doing the best I can, as compassionately as I can."
After losing a kidney to cancer I need to see my doctor every 6 months and I dread going this time because I've done none of the things for myself that the doctor wanted done. I know I can tell him that I spent 3 of the last 6 months tending to dad in hospital and rehab and at least every other day tending to him at home while mom and her dementia keep me in a race to keep her from spending every cent they have which means I'll have to cover their financial needs until the next month, but I hate excuses. Phew, this is quite a ride.

I think it is a combo of both. My mother is manipulative, it is not the disease it is her. She forgets what is convenient at the time to forget and remembers when that is convenient too. Of course there is cognitive decline, I see this with everyday tasks, but I also see the manipulation. If I sit with her night and day, give her everything she wants when she wants it, it is all okay. If I want to go in another room and read my book or work on my pc, she has a problem, I needed to fix my scanner yesterday and she kept coming in the room to tell me when she was going to the bathroom. Okay, small house, don't need to know, but I wasn't right next to her, so I cook her a nice dinner after a nice breakfast and lunch and various teas and give her a great dessert to hear her talking to herself because I am doing something for myself, she is calling me a selfish bitch. I think this is her personality. So someone who is forgetful knows a day later that I am not too pleased with being called names, hmm, short term memory seems to be doing fine. It hurts regardless, and I can assure you he knows how to be controlling.

My heart goes out to you PamalaSue. I hope the original poster is not one if this sites victims of childhood abuse. I'm sorry for anyone that suffered an abusive parent. Hopefully in this case, it is a medication adjustment issue or a slight shift in outlook towards Mom's disease that will make a difference to the relationship between applesed1 and her Mom.

I can only offer advice from my own experiences. My Mother was a strong, smart, loving Mom to me growing up. Its what made the temperament changes so hard to bear. The mean verbal garbage and physical surprises were not committed by the Mom that raised me.

I hope aplesed1 is in the same boat.

bpryor, most of us here are dealing with horrible mothers. mother's that have been horrible since the day we were born, the kind that make Joan Crawford look like the Kool-Aid mom. so we are not likely to be so compassionate and understanding. because it's NOT the disease, IT'S THE MOTHER. trust me, if we had one of those sweet, kind, loving, and understanding mothers when we were younger, we would be so compassionate it would look like a Hallmark commercial and you would cry.

Be compassionate. It IS the disease, not your Mom. She may appear to be perfectly rational, but she really cannot help it. Forgive her and get through the episode as best you can.

There were times when I didn't understand the scope of the disease and corresponding behavior. I hated taking my Mom anywhere because of unexpected belittling or yelling at me in public. Over time, I researched and found that it wasn't my Mom doing the yelling and ugliness. It was her disease in control. But, the good times completely overrules the difficult times! Count every good moment as a gift... because that's what it is. A blessed gift.

I think they have found a way to get back at me though, when I am having Myoclonic Jerks and Twitches, they say, "Look, Ma's Dancing!", and they all get up and dance. In public I just want to die! *runs, hides* Oh yeah, turn about is fair play! LMAO!

Wuvsicecream and Alwaysmyduty, my children are so grateful that I survived the last PTSD relapse with all it's cutting and one attempt at suicide that I only survived because of the Search And Rescue Rangers, that they are able to find laughter in the ridiculous things I do. I do reign it in while at church, and in front of young Boy Scouts. :)

Ok, me too. I appreciate the ones who say "that's not her" and "overlook" and "be patient" but let me tell you, she can push my buttons. I will read others advise, but it doesn't make it any easier when she stands in the bank and claims someone is stealing money out of her bank account.
I've searched for help, but really, we're on our own. I do have POA, and am able to pay her bills, but it sounds like it could cause me trouble down the road. I'm my mother's only biological child, and everyone else has turned their heads. Even my adult children have backed away once they realize she's gone. I didn't ask for this, she showed up on my "doorstep". I have had people, even on here, that try to make me feel guilty because "she did raise me". Who will raise me when I get like her? I already see what the rest of the family is going to do.

I am going to just address the public behavior for now:

Try to think of yourself as beyond embarassment. At first you are so embarassed then you become thick skinned. I am sure somethings will still embarass you though.

WOW you are dealing with a lot -- my prayers go out to you. Alzheimers is an epidemic. It is getting so the whole world is a support group. Almost everyone has a relative or friend who has or has had it.

Pamela and capnhardass, well that ought to fix your kids!!! Give them a preview of upcoming events. Y'all are hilarious, I can't quit laughing and thanks for bringing some comedy to the troops!

PamelaSue ... I like your attitude .... I'm not sure if I was your child I would. In a round about way your teaching them "be yourself" and if others don't like it they don't have to, but how they feel is not going to stop you from liking or being yourself.

@capnhardass, i've already been terrorizing my children by going to a nude beach, or skinny dipping whenever possible, and talking about it on facebook, talking dirty in inappropriate places, talking about the time i modeled nude when i was pregnant with my first child on facebook, refusing to wear a bra under white shirts or anything tight, AND i still wear a bikini. i put a pic of that on facebook too. *wicked grin*

so you can imagine what a monster i'd be as a senile old biddy.

Remember, first and foremost, this is not your mother talking--it is the disease. The disease is robbing your and your family of mother's presense. So please try to understand the "why" for her change in personality and the public outbursts. I don't believe things will get better and that your family will have to really deal with the trauma of this dreaded disease. Luckily you and your brother can partner to work together and relieve each other. But the problems will continue until you both decide to take some kind of action for the POA and working within the long term care system to get some kind of assistance. There are ways to have mom at a day care or a senior campion to assist with her care during the day. Day care is a great way to have an alternative way of caring for her and at the same time provide for her a good setting to deal with some of her personality changes that the dementia brings on. I too do agree with taking her to her physician and making sure all the meds are working and appropriate. Continue to dialogue with others and continue to work for the care of mom while at the same time provide some kind of survival techniques for you and your brother. Don't look for an overnight solution as this will take many attempts within the system to get help for all.

@ pamela,
im going to be a terror when i get mentally decrepit. i plan to go to the zoo and fling crap at the apes. im going to hump dogs' legs, light farts in public, just generally terrorize.. for all my mischief ill get thorazine.. suckers !!

When my mother would start talking to complete strangers to vent about her various delusions, I would just mouth "sorry" and make the circle-to-the-temple sign with my forefinger. They would usually smile and nod, and then I would just try to distract mom and get her going in the opposite direction.

Applesed1,
You sure have your hands full! Lots of good advice above!

We also have a son, who has Asperger's [high functioning ASD]. He lasted under our roof 2 years, with Mom intermittently raging around here, among other things.
Bless him, he was able to rescue me from the pits a few times, after she'd shredded me emotionally, simply by being his logical ASD self, and stating a few grounding sentences.
But once he got his SSDI [we'd avoided him getting labeled for 28 years, to optimize his abilities], he was able to share rent elsewhere--and now avoids even coming here for dinner, ever since---the stress Mom loaded on us and here, was devastating to him.

IMHO, either your ASD child, or your elder with dementias, needs to find a more suitable space to live, to protect your ASD child.

The kind of stresses someone in the throws of dementias can generate, can trigger those w/ ASD to regress quite drastically, for indeterminant lengths of time. Our son regressed badly, even though he'd learned to cope with life rather well for most of his life, until Mom's behaviors simply pushed his personal triggers too hard.

We had few helps for our ASD adult child.
ASD helps are largely for minor children.
If your child with ASD is an adult, or even an older child, helps can be few and far between.
If we'd been able to get systems rolling for Mom though, there were far more helps for her issues.

With the stresses of everything, my spouse also started losing it.
It took his having emergency surgery and his own melt-downs, to get him hooked up with needed helps.
It took ALL those crises, before other family hauled Mom out of here [believing Mom's lies and ravings].
We are all still feeling fragile, here.

Only you can choose what works best for your family.
Learn what resources are nearby to help your ASD child, and what's there to help your Mom.... whichever one has most resources gets them, and that can help give you a much needed repreave!

If I am ever DXd with this crap, I will choose my own ending and go while I still have my mind. No way will I ever put my kids through this.

applesed1 I was in similar shoes at one time with my Mom. Luckily I am the kind of person who gets stronger with a challenge, you could say I found the challenge quite interesting. I wanted to run to the hills at the same time though. That's me, most people compliment me on my patients and ability to not sweat in a crisis. You give me a simple task I get frustrated, but if you give me a crisis I can deal with it!! I'm borderline coocoo...LOL
What you are going through with her is not uncommon in the first stage of the "Mom needs help CRISIS" and you want to help but it seems like a hopeless cause. You are not alone and you came to the perfect place for answers. This is why most of us are here to guide you through the horror of it all.
I am telling you this because at this time you are overwhelmed it's like a three ring circus and the show must go on. You are the ring leader and you need to organize all the acts and you feel like you were left in the cage with the lions and the trainer hasn't feed them yet, and your thinking If I was their meal it might be easier. That would be too easy though, right?
So you need to look at it as a one step at a time issue. If you don't you''ll be lunch to those lion's.
Start with the # one thing... figure out a way to get your Mom diagnosed for her mental issues. I know you thinking OH sure easier said than done!!! well your not going to get anywhere the normal way so you need to play her game right now. Think about it, Is there a person in your Mom's life that she trusts right now? (sounds like your 19 year old son fits the position), this is usually the person she tells all the horror story's to, about you and expects them to believe her every word. A neighbor, a friend, a cousin someone that you can take aside without Mom knowing what your mission is, and explain the situation to that will help you to help your mom. This person needs to be understanding about your concerns and keeps your Mom calm without judgement. What your Mom is doing right now is trying to protect her self because she knows something is wrong but refuses to admit there's a problem because her independence is in jeopardy. So informing her of what she needs is only going to make her aggressive and disagreeable. This same person may be able to get her to sign checks for bills even if they act like they have to make your Mom think she is right about everything. Talking to her is like "walking" through a mine field, one wrong word "step" could blow the whole family up. It might take some time to gain her trust in someone though it's like acting they are playing a part, she thinks everyone is controlling her so this person is the only person who lets her be herself unless of course she's endangering herself. It's like setting a mood... if you walked into a room where everyone is angry you'd want out of there... if you walk into a party every one is dancing happy laughing you'll want to stay.
So once you've figured this out and get her to conform and trust you can get her to Dr and then once she is stable with the medication ( meds and atmosphere are important as well) have a POA written and get that same person to have her sign it.
The other thing I should mention is you know your Mom you know what makes her happy and what makes her mad, her emotions are distorted but believe me they run deep inside a person.
I used to act like I needed her and not that she needed me. I'd say things like I don't want to go to the Doctor but I don't feel well. She'd say it's not that bad I'll go with you if you want and hold your hand. She loved to be my Mom but hates the role reversal thing so I played her game. I could fool her if I was doing that but I had to keep reminding myself she's not stupid just confused. She's is out smarting the staff at the NH now she tricks them all the time.
Oh another thing about the bills I found that with "my Mom". anyway, I'd say here is a bill open it up. I'd let her read it she'd get confused or stressed then I'd say how about I write the check you can sign them and do the figures in front of her then I'd say.... Oh what a relief, now that we're done with that stuff let's get ice cream!!! Then all she'd think about was ice cream not the fact that I was doing her bills.
Bottom line is you need to do what's best for her and she doesn't have to know you are taking charge, you can let her think she's in control but ....
Ignorance is bliss
Lack of knowledge results in happiness.
You are more comfortable if you don't know something.
I call this the "need to know basis" !!!!

Dearest Appleseed,
Re: your Autistic son…
I work w/special needs adults [which includes Autism, Down Syndrome, PDD, etc…]. There are sooooooo many resources for your son. You BOTH might benefit greatly if he was to participate in a vocational/day habilitation program. This could alleviate some of the tremendous stress affiliated w/that situation alone—as well as benefit your son greatly! Your financial situation might actually work for you in this specific situation!
Remain connected to the amazingly supportive & emotionally/spiritually souls on this site!
Much Peace,
Enriched

One way we stopped the irritional behavior in public was to begin limiting public outings as much as possible with my father-in-law. He is extremly hard of hearing, refuses to get a hearing aid and screams every sentence. He has never been formally diagnosed with demential or alzheimers.
He would scream at us (want to begin aruguments), scream about politics, race, even to the point of using the "N word" out in public.
My husband and I said to each other, "if he doesn't kill us, someone is going to be waiting for us out in the parking lot by the time he is finished." We live in a state where race relations are sometimes very tense and all that aside, as a decent human being, there are some things you just don't say.
Also, it is not fair to either of your sons -- the one with autism or the peacekeeper. Take it from someone who had 3 ulcers by the time her grandparents died -- it is not worth it.
Discuss with your brother assisted living of some sort.

I don't know what state you live in, but in AZ all a guardianship costs is Court costs. You do not need an attorney. I paid about $235 yrs. ago, and I am sure it has gone up. With regard to your mother's acting out in public, who does that really hurt? She is the one causing her behaviors. Just stand there and smile while rolling your eyes. For those of you who do not think the "public" understands about dementia, time to educate them! There are going to be millions of us with it by 2035. As far as her moodswings go, it may not be the dementia, it could be bipolar disorder which is easily treated. In any event, have a session with her doctor and discuss her behaviors. At this point in time I am more concerned with your autistic son whose mental health should be your priority. Stop worrying about things you cannot control. Your mother will get worse, but your immediate thoughts need to be with your husband and son and of course yourself. Do not allow a situation to ruin your life. You do not owe anyone an explanation, need to account for why you are taking the steps you are taking, and are mostly responsible for your happiness as well as your family. Take care of them FIRST.

I have been and I still am on the receiving end of this kind of behavior from my abusive mother-in-law. DO NOT TAKE ANYMORE ANYWAY WHATSOEVER!!!!!
Cranky, selfish old people were once cranky, selfish YOUNG people. They have become more of their true selves. They will NOT get better. Doctors, nurses, social workers will NOT help you. Meds will offer hope but NOT relief. I have been through it all. Work with getting her into Title 19. Find out what it takes. Let her spin out her money, her hopes, her fears on some other VICTIM!!!!!!!!! I have been through all those routes and NOTHING has worked. It has only postponed this decision that I come to on the ragged edge of nowhere. Oh, keep track (photographs) of the bruises she will inflict on you so you have a public record when you finally have to report her to her own doctor or they won't believe you. Date them. Keep a journal of the incidents of the time and date. See a therapist who has YOUR safety in mind for yourself, not her. DO NOT LET THIS SUCK YOU INTO THE PIT OF HELL where I am now!!!!!

It is really quite pointless to 'argue' with the dementia.
try to change subject, move on, sometimes ignore it.
Whay a lot of folks don't know is that someone might be overmedicated, or have drug interactions, also very important to make sure as crazy as it sounds; No urinary tract infections!
Look up 'polypharmacy'

My mother is a great confabulator. She often rewrites history. The new version of something becomes the truth and she forgets what really happens. I don't bother to correct her if it doesn't do harm. If I do try to correct her, she will just tell me I'm wrong and get mad at me, so nothing would be accomplished that way.

The biggest concern is her finances. A way that you might weasel your way into helping her with them is to see if she will let you write the checks, then let her sign them. If she is semi-trusting, maybe she will let you set up automatic payments from her credit card or checking account. I like the credit card best, because it doesn't have to be recorded in the checking account register each time. As long as the balance is paid each month, it is a good way to make sure things are covered.

I have to admit that the last thing I would want would be guardianship of my mother. You will probably find that as the dementia progresses your mother may become easier to work with when it comes to finances. When an elder is full of fight, they will often accept help if they feel they still have control, e.g. writing checks and letting her sign them. It also helps her gain a little trust that she will be cared for. Perhaps a little down the line she will choose a DPOA.

People with dementia tend to remain competent for a fairly long time. For most, it is not an overnight thing. Sometimes it seems they reach a certain level of dementia, then stay there -- perhaps it is the type of dementia that causes this. As circumstances change, you'll probably be able to figure out what is the best thing to do. You may find that she becomes easier to work with. I hope so.

Does your mother have her will and final directives in place yet? Sometimes people are willing to choose financial and healthcare POAs when they are doing their wills. Maybe it is because it seems far in the future, or because they are a bit intimidated when talking to a lawyer, so not so full of fight. Or maybe it is because they know that the decisions actually do have to be made.

Can your brother or other relatives help you to raise the $3,000 needed to get guardianship? Don't be afraid to ask for this financial help, which, in any case, if for your mother, not for you.

I know the feeling. My mom also spins amazingly believable tales in front of people who know no better! It paints me in a horrible light. Sadly my DAD is one that believes much of her tales... loyalty?? I am guessing that is it. He just can't bare the thought of saying anything against her. Thanks dad. So when she says how mean we are to her, etc he just "goes along with it!" It hurts my feelings as I can see he isn't just going along but believes her much of the time as he gets mad at us! :( It hurts. I have given up 2 years of my life living here with my parents. No matter how much I do or how hard I try it just isn't enough and isn't appreciated like it should be....

Hang in there. I am glad you and your brother have worked out a working strategy to share the workload! (I have 4 siblings that do NOTHING, barely visit.) Try to find the humor in situations. Laughter makes it easier to bear! Keep sharing too. The support here makes a huge difference.