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OP says she and DH are in their late 20s. This means that MIL is probably in her late 50s. She is a large strong woman, who for whatever reason is very controlling – successfully so. She showtimes brilliantly with an audience. DH does not want her sedated. She does not fit well into facilities. DH is an angel.

OP presents herself so badly that it’s easy to blame her. OP stops herself and us from blaming DH. However it does sound that this is a classic case of ‘choose – mother or wife’. OP did not expect this from marriage. No matter how wonderful DH is, or how bad she feels about her own failings, OP is probably better off out of this marriage.
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Helpless00 Jan 2022
She is slightly older, she had him late in life. That said show timing is a phrase I have heard to describe her. It appears it is not uncommon for PWD when they are in the early or middle stages able to put on a performance so to speak to pass off as “Fine” which does make things difficult for insurance purposes.
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Helpless, it appears that life is currently revolving around MIL. Period. End of story. No matter what her diagnosis, no matter what the rules, and no matter who is caring for her.
If you are not prepared to live your life that way I would suggest you discuss that with your husband. He has guardianship. He is unlikely to give that over to the state or to other family, and other family is clearly not willing to let this woman completely take over their lives.
Your husband will have to chose what to do with your MIL. If she is not at risk from wandering and is free to come and go and wants a lot of attention I suggest the family try putting her in an assisted living facility again. If that doesn't work, and she is still not diagnosed as demented (how can that be when she has been assigned a guardian? She either IS incomepent and needs a guardian or she is NOT incompetent and in that case there would BE NO GUARDIAN unless she wished to have one).
In any case, after this length of time I think you know there will be no peace, there will be no nuclear family that doesn't include MIL, and bringing children into this mess would be awful for ALL INVOLVED.
I myself would tell my husband "I care for you, but I cannot sacrifice my life to this. We have done all we can and there is no peace. It is turning me into something I don't want to be. I am so sorry, but I am leaving now. We need to see a lawyer for a separation, and I need to get my own place. I will support you as I would any friend, but that will not include care of your mother."
This is life. Some marriages work; some do not. For any number of reasons. For some people it is financial problems, for some it is something like this.
Only you can make the choice. You already know the facts. The facts are not likely to change, and you KNOW this, which is why your fantasy realm now is one in which death figures; that is NOT HEALTHY. Seek counseling for yourself, make your decisions, do your mourning and move on. There is very little choice unless you wish to continue on the way you are.
I also agree with others that this in no wise sounds like dementia. But in fact, it little matters WHAT it is, and in the realm of mental illness and dementia there is often no diagnosis until autopsy, IF THEN.
Best out to you. So sorry for this daily turmoil and torment. You and hubby are clearly bright and informed. You will have to make your own choices.
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Helpless00 Jan 2022
I am not sure on the legal issues, all I know is he is currently in court hearings regarding guardianship, At this stage I believe she is considered AIP since no ruling has been given. I do not know much of guardianship or how it goes, as I mentioned he is keeping much of the details to himself.
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This does not sound like dementia to me.
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Why was the lady's own family unwilling to welcome her at her sister's house?

What does your MIL say about what she wants?

It strikes me that your husband had to demand an awful lot of tests before he got what sounds like a pretty reluctant diagnosis of vascular dementia. Was your MIL mentally ill before all this began? What was the medication they were giving her - and she is refusing - supposed to be for?

She's 5'10" and physically fit and evidently able to stride out quite long distances. She is by no means a falls risk. So why was that punted as a reason for requesting care? I am getting hints of galloping mental illness which your DH's family is still hoping to keep under wraps.

I'm sorry if you've already told us this, but how long have you been married?
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lealonnie1 Jan 2022
My thoughts exactly. This MIL seems to NOT fit the dementia dx at all ergo why meds aren't required or working and neither is SNF care or any real kind of elder care, for that matter. Going for a walk is not "wandering" and she's surely not a fall risk. Calling 911 repeatedly and wanting attention and acting FINE & happy with attention suggests boredom and loneliness as a new widow with mental health issues thrown in.

Op, your MIL is not even living in your home so why would your dh have to pay for you to leave your home, live elsewhere and "be yourself?" Too much here that makes no sense at ALL and smells like fish to me.
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To answer a few questions in one post. We have been dealing with his mother since COVID hit. She was brought to the hospital when my husband suspected she was having a stroke back in Aug of 2020. My husband requested an MRI to be done, since he knew nothing would appear of the CT. He suspected she was having a bilateral cerebral stroke, when he informed the doctors they chalked it up up a UTI and requested follow up care with outpatient to get the MRI. Since he only symptom she was expecting was aphasia. Though the hospital contributed that to the confusion that can be brought on by a UTI in the elderly. Long story short is my husband was right we took her another hospital that day and they confirmed she had a “minor” bilateral cerebral stroke.

Since then it has been a rough battle with my MIL, unfortunately our state does not have wandering laws if the person even with dementia knows where they are going and knows how to come back. Dementia in itself is not enough to keep someone inside even for their own safety, unfortunately she was still deemed to have capacity. Problem is my MIL would go to her sisters house everyday but her family did not like that. They started to call 911 each time she did it because it was too painful for them to see my MIL like that. My MIL would call 911 when either my husband or my FIL would tell her she cannot go see her family or tried to redirect her telling the police that they are keeping her inside the house. When they explained what was going on for the most part they did not care, my MIL and FIL apartment became a revolving door with officers because either my MIL would call or her family.

That is when my husband made the choice to peruse guardianship, and in the meantime would pay for care while he started on the Medicaid process. We tired to get her AIDS through Medicare using the VNS for things like her being a fall risk. They called his bull, and said she was not even though he had documentation from multiple doctors they did not buy it. She was considered to be “fine” for the time being.

My husband and his father share the load as best as possible but my FIL did most of the heavy lifting throughout the day especially early on due to COVID. Currently husband is staying in his mothers apartment at the request of the courts until suitable support is put into the place. They are helping him, because he has documented every encounter he has had and the court felt that a disservice has been done. Including all of the nursing homes that has kicked her out by simply bringing her back to the hospital due to potential aggressive behaviors. She is not a small lady, she is 5’10 and is extremely fit for someone her age. She enjoys staying fit so many workers do feel intimidated by her.

Some doctors recommended that she no longer exercises so the staff could feel safer around her. I have tried to be supportive for many years, it is just the system has failed us countless times, and I see what it is doing to my husband. I cannot imagine how it feels to hear doctors tell you to limit the few things your LO with dementia has control over because people are scared the big Hispanic women, or having people tell him he is entitled because he does not want go against his current geriatric doctors recommendations regarding medication.

When his mother was in one facility they called my husband up at 7:30 am asking if they could give her a sedative since they were unable to calm her down, She was going into other peoples rooms, walking around etc. . . Generally being annoying. He said he was not comfortable sedating her so early in the morning, and requested could they do some activities with her. They were understaffed, they tried to give her the drug, she called my husband and told him what they were doing and I have never seen him so upset. When he got to facility he saw his mother throwing up at the side of her bed, it appears they forced her to take it so she was trying to get rid of it.
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Helpless,
This sounds similar to a posting over at the Alzheimer’s site, but from the wife’s point of view. Assuming that this is the same situation, and having followed that, I’d say it’s best if you do remove yourself from the home. Both you and your husband write about how you are trapped and want to do harm to the MIL. Your husband is enmeshed with and committed to supporting your MIL, though he is aware of her manipulative nature. It may be possible that her extensive reactions to meds are driven by what seems to be a mental illness. He has made his choice. It’s not tenable for you to stay, and it’s time to throw in the towel.
I will say that if this is a cross-forum trolling attempt your persistance is phenomenal.
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Helpless00 Jan 2022
Probably is the same situation, I know he was called the Alzheimer’s association a lot, we still get stuff in the mail from them.

Yes, I am aware he has made his choice. To be honest, I do not know if he is aware she is manipulative. Which is part of the issue I have with her. I know she is sick, but she is still dragging her son through the mud for her own well-being which does not seem fair.

Nor is having him care for his mother tenable. Feelings a weird you can know something is wrong and want to change it but still want to do so. I still love him and want to be with him. Just when I try to be supportive something flips inside of me when it comes to her.
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Helpless, how old are you?

You say that your and DH's plans of having children went up in smoke because of his mother; but his mother has only been on your plate since August of this past year, yes?

Have you looked at Nursing Homes with dementia units? What do you mean when you say she is "fine" with one to one attention?

Folks with dementia are seldom "fine".

You seem to be saying as well that there are limitations on the meds that her team has tried. Are they (or is DH) unwilling to try an antipsychotic like Seroquel? You really need to find a "team" that is willing to consider all the possibilities. Also consider the fact that MIL may be mentally ill in addition to having dementia. If she has always had a "dramatic" personality, consider that some of the "side-effects" may be self-reported but not necessarily present. Has anyone tried a placebo to see if she has "side effects" from one of those?

I certainly think that getting some time and space to yourself is a good thing, but I wouldn't give up the ship quite yet.
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Helpless00 Jan 2022
My husband does not want to put her on antipsychotics. He views medication as a last resort her care team is on the same page. She is actually okay when she has people around her. No signs of aggression, engages in conversation and is generally very happy. So in his eyes medication is unnecessary especially if it causes personal distress to his mother,

He does want the best care for his mother, even though at the core I do not think she is worth the effort, and to a degree I do not think he does either. We had a talk about it and it seems he really doing this for himself. He wants to be able to live with himself and say he tried everything possible to keep her happy, just sucks that he is willing to put our happiness on hold.

We are both in our late 20’s. I cannot answer what else they have done, my husband has been doing his best to keep his mother’s issues to himself and away from me. I really only know about the major changes, but outside of just general phone calls we really have not spoken much for the last couple of weeks. He has been doing a lot to make her apartment safer, and has been trying to find aids that his mother may gravitate towards.
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I really feel everyone's being a little too literal and thus harsh on the OP here.

My SO has joked about how he wishes his parents could die in a plane crash for their sakes. They literally have no mindset for living once one of them is gone beyond "wanting to die" but not having a gun. It'd at least be what they ant.

I really think OP would be seeing this differently if her DH's help consisted of helping mom find the resources as opposed to DH BEING the resource. If the priority were the former, I'm sure OP would be glad to research ALs or aides.
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MJ1929 Jan 2022
I'd say there's a time and place for those words, and it isn't on a public forum of strangers. Those thoughts are best saved for a psychiatrist's office.

In my opinion, OP went far over the line, and for the safety of all involved, she should leave the home immediately.
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Quite amazingly, you tell us this: "I know this is not his fault, but the reality I want his mother to die. Whenever I see her face I only picture choking, poisoning, pushing her down the stairs, watching her drown, in short I want her to suffer." While there may be more than a few who feel this desperation, I think most would cloak the feelings in different words than this; this truly exhibits a level of violence and desperation that is quite scary. You have lost already some of the inhibitions that prevent us from saying such things as this out loud; that means you honestly are in a psychiatric emergency in all truth, in my humble opinion.
Whatever the outcome with the MIL, it is time for YOU to seek psychological help.
It may be that your limitations are such that you cannot give in home care. No judgement from ME, here, as though I loved being a nurse I could never have done what I did 24/7 in home. So my limitations and such that I have always recognized that.
In all of this I do not know if MIL actually lives with you, but I assume so given her needs. And she is a tough case. It is not so unusual as you might think for patients to have paradoxical affect from medications, and VD is truly one of the most difficult to deal with. If MIL has been shown the exit in various facilities, as you say she has, it would not be surprising that you cannot live with her, especially when you are planning to start a family. THAT is not possible if MIL lives with you; she won't get better. She will get worse.
If you are young enough to just now be planning a family I suspect MIL is not very old; she may have decades left. If your husband is also sinking money into all this, as you infer, then the assets meant for his own nuclear family is instead invested in his ill Mother.
I would suggest that you leave now. Your feelings are out of control. You should seek help. If your husband doesn't place his mother while you are long I suspect you are not now/will not be in future strong enough to be the caregiver for this woman, and I suspect the marriage is over OR your husband places his Mom somewhere where the state will provide where he is unable to. Sorry, it sounds all so cruel, but I don't see any options here, and when I read the responses I think that others really don't either. This can be like dealing with a psychotic person unless you ARE there 24/7. I don't know anyone capable of giving up their own life in that manner.
You are very well spoken. I suspect you are very intelligent and capable of working to support yourself. You are not capable of doing this. There are no children involved. Sadly I would leave. Your husband is a good man, and torn between Mom and wife. I am afraid he has made his choice. To be frank I believe it to be dangerous to your mental health to stay and perhaps dangerous to others to have you there.
I am so sorry. Not everything has a good answer. Not everything can be fixed.
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Are you sharing a house with MIL? I can't tell. If you are and have reached this level of panic and desperation you are right to remove yourself from the house. If you and your husband are living separately from her and he goes to her place to take care of things your response seems out of proportion to the situation. Either way, I'm glad you are in counseling because you are definitely in crisis. I hope for the best outcome for you and your H, whatever the best outcome may be.
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Your FIL died back in August/2021 so he hasn't been gone that long. I'm assuming that he bore most of the burden of your MIL's care needs. Your husband has been running himself taking on his mom who needs constant attention for the last few months, and you're moving out. It's only been a few months. Many of the people on this forum have been at it for YEARS.
Your MIL is not the reason you are leaving your husband. I understand that you hate this woman. You hated her before the dementia. Your reasons are your own and no judgment about it. You do ask here, "I really am a b*tch, aren't I?"
Yes, you really are but you're doing the right thing by leaving your husband because he probably deserves a lot better than you. Instead of lamenting about the massive anxiety your MIL causes you simply by being alive, you could maybe relieve some of your husband's burden here. Pick up the phone and make a few calls to different care facilities in your area. Go and tour some of them. Find out which ones have MC areas. Most of the larger chain-owned ones do and they take Medicaid. Her son does not have to pay for her care. Granted it's likely she won't get into a top-shelf facility with only Medicaid paying.
But why should that bother you? I'm sure you'll be delighted if the worst nursing home in your state accepts her. You do after all admit to wanting her to suffer and die a violent death.
I can't even believe that you'd tell people, strangers at that, about your husband apologizing for showing his emotions to you his wife and for being his mother's advocate. You should be ashamed of yourself. Did you ever entertain the possibility that your husband loves his mother, and you're not the only person he has love for? He needs help finding a permanent living situation for his mother. Maybe you could grow up and make yourself useful and help him with it.
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It's not acceptable for OP's DH to be paying for OP to live elsewhere so he can spend every night and minute away from work caring for his mother. There are ways to advocate, to help, without being the nanny-slave.

OP's rage is somewhat misplaced as it is really rage toward her husband prioritizing his mother over her in terms of time--and for an infuriatingly indeterminate time period.
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ExhaustedPiper Jan 2022
"I know this is not his fault, but the reality I want his mother to die. Whenever I see her face I only picture choking, poisoning, pushing her down the stairs, watching her drown, in short I want her to suffer."

I don't think this OP is the kind of person to help or advocate for anyone, including her own husband who she is abandoning less than six months after his father passed and he is trying to deal with his mother who is ill. By the OP's own words- "I cannot say she is an extremely difficult case per-se. She is just an attention starved person and I am sick of it."

The woman just lost her husband less than six months ago, and this OP wants to see her "suffer".

I personally hope the OP and her husband divorce and the husband finds a partner deserving of his loyalty and love, instead of the selfish heartless "partner" he has now.

Yet you think OP should be the "priority" right now. SMH.
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I think you've perhaps coloured your self-portrait rather strongly. Do you feel a bit better for getting it out in type? We all have emotions we're not proud of. I certainly wouldn't think it a bad idea to drag out what you're feeling and have a close look at it.

The question is, what to do.

How long have you been married?

Is MIL actually living in your and husband's home at the moment?
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Helpless00 Jan 2022
Yeah, it is nice to let it out, we have been married for over 10 years, both in our late 20’s. My husband is staying with his mother, while I am still at our apartment. Early on after his father’s passing he tried to make it work by going back and forth but we had a few incidents so he has made the choice to stay with her until the proper aids are put into place.
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You paint a picture of your husband being The Perfect Husband, yet you have visions of watching your mil die a gruesome and painful death because she's basically a pain in the arse? You are 100% unsupportive of the dh who's been 100% supportive of you, in spite of what sounds like horribly childish behavior on your part?

You're leaving a wonderful man because you hate his sick and elderly mother, both of whom are on the spectrum, by your own words.

Are you serious with all this??

What advice does the therapist have for you? If it's "either help your man or get out of his way" then I agree 100%.

True love requires compromise and giving of oneself even under stressful circumstances. Think about what you're willing to give to this marriage and if the answer is "nothing more" then file for divorce, that's my suggestion. Because your husband needs a partner who can help him get his mother situated so he can live with himself as a son. Family does not turn their back on a loved one when the going gets tough. They find a solution, no matter what it takes.
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Helpless00 Jan 2022
Reality is it is not something I am proud of, though they are my honest feelings. Our therapist has told me to do what is best for me, it is just difficult since I know I am 100% in the wrong. I know I am being childish, and petty.

Should have phrased it better meant to say my husband is on the spectrum, his mother does have mental health issues though which do complicate matters.

You are 100% correct that is what I should be. He is far from perfect, but he has been wonderful to me and my family, which hurts the most cause I know what I should do but it is hard to still do it.
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"Whenever I see her face I only picture choking, poisoning, pushing her down the stairs, watching her drown, in short I want her to suffer."

This is insanely disturbing. Leave and stay away. You are a danger to her and to your husband. Get some help.
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Katefalc Jan 2022
SICK
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Maybe some time away will help you to gain some clarity & perspective.

Sounds like your Husband wants to find the right care accom for his Mother, but it is not as quick or straight forward as you both would like.

There is smooth sailing in life, but choppy waves & wild storms at times too.

Is it worth losing your marriage for this particular storm?
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Helpless00 Jan 2022
That is what he told me, he told me to get space he offered to pay wherever I want to go or stay. Told me to get away from it all and just be myself. I just feel like s***, that I am letting him go through this all alone especially after losing his light house his father.

He has been nothing but understanding, and here I am being a child unable to deal with his mother to add some relief on his part and be a supportive ear in his time of need, cause anything regarding his mother makes my blood boil.
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Your husband should not be paying for anything out of the joint assets, i.e. what you collectively made during the marriage.

And if he actually stays after you leave, then he loves his mother and/or his inheritance more than you. Inheritance further is his property and not yours in my state, anyway. Why would you put yourself out for a man who could just divorce you?
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Helpless00 Jan 2022
He has not used anything out of our savings, or has stopped contributing to the house. He is a wonderful provider, he is using his own income to cover his mother expenses in the mean time since unfortunately all she has is social security and Medicaid is being extremely closed fist with her hours. So he is working on appeals to get her the care she needs

Thing is I know he loves me, and I do not think it is a competition between who he loves more. I can see it hurts him and he has expressed he wishes he could just turn a blind eye and let what happens happens to his mother. He cares, that is his mother and wishes to do all that he can for her.

Yet my friends and family have told me the same thing leave him and if he does not follow that means he has made his choice. Which I do not think is fair, he has a standard of care he wishes for his mother I should not penalize him for having such standards. I mean that leave of concern and care is one of the aspects I fell in love with, Though now I am sick of it because it he is wasting time and energy on a person I do not feel is worth any sense of kindness and should simply rot away in a nursing home and die alone?

What makes it rough she is at that middle point of dementia where they are difficult to assess.
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First off..."As my FIL put it she was jealous of me, which I understand is normal." it is not normal for a parent to be jealous of their child's spouse. Put that thought right out of your mind. It is a sign of an unhealthy attachment between parent and child,
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Helpless00 Jan 2022
I do not think by normal his father meant it was right, but more so that it is unfortunately common to have parents express jealous tendencies for their child’s spouse. Especially when you are dealing with a parent and child on the spectrum.

At the very least I never took it as something that was not proper or should be the way things are. Just a matter of fact that it is the way things are within many families. My father was the same way to a degree, I was a the first born, and no man was ever good enough.I think his father meant from that POV, at least that is how I viewed it
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