Can someone with medical POA decide who can and can't come to visit the patient?

so poa dont mean much if the patient is in the present -- thats what i arrive at..

i dunno. aunt edna signed a hippa form for me. poa was being a d**k at docs office. in the end i was filled in on the medical results of the visit and not only permitted but encouraged to get involved by nurses. probably cause aunt edna verbally consented to doc. family doc is pretty powerful.

If that POA was signed under sedation it isn't legal. A person has to be of "sound mind" to be able to give their DPOA or POA to anyone. Problem is now you would have to go to court I am pretty sure to have it set aside.

My elder care attorney says I cannot prohibit the con artist who is influencing my mother from seeing her unless I have guardianship. My durable POA and Health Care Directive do not give me enough legal coverage. She can still make her own bad decisions until I get guardianship. POA typically only covers financial matters. Go see your mother-in-law. Make them prove they have the legal right to prohibit your visits.

Yes. Her POA can prevent family or others from visiting if he is acting in her best interest or even perceives that he is. Sorry if you think it is spite or whatever. You can "work with him" and ask to visit in his presence or aides presence...but short of legally challenging the POA, you can't do anything. I'd drop it unless you think mil is in danger and wait until she is conscious and talk to her about what happened in a calm non challenging manner and ask her how she wants it to be in the future.

I had a friend who was hospitalized and her husband absolutely limited who visited, who was alone with her and times they could visit...and for good reason to not have any drama for his wife during her hospital and recovery stay. It was a good decision even though there was hurt feelings.

Yes they can, I am my mother Durable and Medical POA. Because of mental abuse from certain family members, I always insist on an aide or nurse being in the room if they choose to visit my mom. Do they visit, NO, why because they already got everything legally when my Father died. It's a long story but she is better now, no IBS, off of all blood pressure and pain pills.

I mean to say the administrator at the bldg decides & stays on top of which are cert which care or caid. Not the ombudsman. The omb, the other state workers & those left holding the bag at corporate will not get on the bandwagon to see that this is what is happening. Everywhere I called today acted like this lying & dumping has picked up speed this winter. I still can't even see it financially adv. to do 3rd party collections for someone that fell between the cracks except there is no papertrail. No proof of what was said at admit.

The newest trick in all NHs here locally is to state on the phone that all their beds are duly certified for both medicare & medicaid. It is mostly not true because they could not afford to care for all patients if they operated with all medicaid. Since most would not have anything to gain by taking a patient that doesn't pay out this hasn't been a problem up til now. However the corp. owners have gotten wise to simply creating admission paperwork that is shady & overpowers state law that forces the POA to sign it so that they can come after & liquidate the only home they were allowed on medicaid with once signed. If the family does not sign the patient can't stay there. Now that these owners have gotten wise they lie to their marketer (bed sales) about every bed being duly-certified. The patient is admitted while still in the 100 days. They are put in a "supposedly duly cert." bed & no notice is given when running out of the 100 days. Medicaid will not pay out since it isn't a medicaid cerified bed & the state only demands a 24 hour notice not enuf time to find another bed. The home they were allowed into medicaid with now will have a third-party collection agent after it and I would guess future SS checks are seized
which is the only way someone is allowed a medicaid bed as the SS checks are the copay each month as the resident responsibility. I only know this is a new trick/lie because it happened at the one he is leaving & all along during his stay I was assured by the liars he had no coverage problems & could stay no matter what. Today while calling alternate NHs I was told the same lie that all their beds were duly certified. Then I called the state ombudsman & got the list of certified beds & found the prospective homes were also lying about which beds were medicaid. Best of all there will be no way to ensure he gets admitted into a medicaid bed because the ombudsman at the facility ultimately decides which ones are having a medicaid or a medicare in them & can move the cert. around the building to support keeping a patient in the same bed so you can't even tell by where the room is in the bldg. Worse yet the state hasn't caught up with the tricks so they will not be made to believe that he could move out of the frying pan into the fire.

Why both TX & Oregon? I am in Texas & I hear often that Texas is the worst state in the union for NHomes. I can see that no state could do much worse. NHs know what they can get away with because the state doesn't care & they do & often. I have never had a complaint come out in dad's favor & many injustices have been done.

It also never ceases to amaze me though how many I will speak with in the chain on behalf of corporate & the state knowing what looks like it may go wrong w/o mediation or I am trying to prevent & it doesn't get prevented because they believe the facility & what I've been told.

Today, I am having to move my dad a third time since the 1st of his 100 days of skilled since this one he is leaving admitted him medicaid & just kept billing medicare. He could have stayed at the last place (medicare only) and moved only once & while I tried to make many calls & did everything to avoid this no one would get involved because they believed the fairy tale land where every building operates via what is on paper. TX is a nightmare state for nursing homes. I do wonder if there are better states. As for POAs I have seen different NH read & interpret the POA differently as well. While one NH will not follow the POA wishes regarding no use of narcotics or only under consent the other NH will want to give antibiotics but if the POA says no to antibiotics they will observe the POA's voice as the patient's voice & not give them. The NH does not always know the best for the patient simply because the POA has more med. history on the patient i.e. from hospital specialists like Inf. Dis. specialists & that antib. will only do more harm than good.
Again everyone is not a robot. Everyone brings into it there own experiences, schooling whatever. POAs are also worded differently depending on the lawyer. I think that is part of the problem. Even ombudsmen are not robots & if they are prohospice or pro narcotics they will side with whatever they think the staff says is right because in their minds the staff is sitting by the 1 patients side 24-7 & intimately knowing what is best. Forget the idiot POA what do they know. We know alot. But you know this could be the only reason NHs also refuse to call a POA when they send a patient to the ER so we can be there to advocate or at least calm the demented patient. I have never once been called when they were sent to an ER & they were always terribly frightened & over-treated & almost killed when I found out next day they were in hosp. The state of TX is a nightmare. I would not advise anyone to facilitate anyone in this state. Either keep at home or move to another state. Please. Do yourself a favor. I have lost an entire day today to having to move dad again.

Everything is in the eye of the beholder. So basically everything does not happen because of building policy or state policy. It happens because whoever barred them brought into the barring their own experience, history & whatever nonsense was told them by the person barring them. The same goes for every staff member, employee of the state and so on. The biggest problem I see is that with so many elders in buildings there isn't enough prevention for mistakes, there aren't enough staff to go around & there isn't enough advocacy. Worst yet everything I have reported to the state in my parents buildings when investigated comes down to he said - she said. Documentation has gone missing. Documentation has been altered to make the building look better or bribing is changing hands between the state & facility during the investigation.

My biggest thing right now is an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. And putting things in the state rule obviously isn't effective. I think there needs to be more of a watchdog group preventing problems from going so far that there even needs to be an on site investigation when the patient is already at a hospital or at another facility.

Although my dad is pretty institutionalized to be able to care for at home I wish I had never facilitated both my parents when I did. If I had it to do over again I would not have facilitated them knowing how broken the system is.

Well, my experience is different, as far as keeping someone out of a facility because your POA, not what I have come across.
What I've found is that the memory care & assisted living staff will not prevent family members from coming in to visit.
I had a really difficult time in getting them to agree to call the police if they tried to take my step-mom for a "trip".
I wish it was so. My 90 y/o mid stage dementia who is dependent on others was taken on a 5 day road trip, missing medicine, took her 3 weeks to regain most of her strength. After that I got the facility to agree to call 911 if someone else was to try to take her out.
Geez!! This stuff is not easy.
FedUpNow, how were you barred, if you don't me asking. Who enforced you not visiting. Who told you, you could not visit?
Sorry, but this is in such contrast to what I've come up against in 2 (Texas & Oregon) states & 3 facilities.
Sam7194, same questions?
I sincerely hope you all find helpful answers.
My Step mom, just broke her hip, she is in a convalescent hospital & the crazy niece is out of the country, but she's promised me she will come & set things right! & I'm the POS of medical & legal & have been caretaking from afar & moved her in August to improve her care.
This stuff is starting to make me crazy!!!!
Take care all, this too will pass

Countrymouse, you are so insightful. As my father got past 80, my sisters started asking me how much he had. I made sure he had a Will leaving everything to his wife. When he died I told her not to let anyone in the house, not even during the wake, they would take everything they could find. Maybe this POA is worried about someone shoving a Will under her nose and having her sign it. It's possible.

I hope the condition "causes them duress", is the key here. I would do all I could to find out as another writer said, whether her wishes are being honored.

I know some states do not need a notary or lawyer for MEDICAL POA.and they have different names for the POA's. Florida calls it a health care surragote and it is signed by 1 non related person and 1 related person who basically state the "person" is of sound mind when they signed. The required paperwork has changed fairly rapidly over the last few years. I would check with the state you live in to see what is legal. Check with a social worker or patient advocate at the hospital or facility she is at, they may be able to help. Best wishes.

Revenge, indignation and anger, Sizemoe, would be my first guess. It's not going to happen, but if my partner were to think of leaving so much as a plastic teaspoon to me in his will, I expect his children would rather set fire to the house than let me keep it.

All I mean is that I agree with you: everyone's circumstances are different, and so are their motives. Sometimes we can't even begin to guess what they are.

My best guess is that the POA if validly appointed carries out as if they were the patient. Everyone can deny the right to a certain visitor. If I appoint a POA for myself who is acting in my capacity because I am unable to that POA can deny a visitor just as I myself can.

No he cannot stop family members from seeing patient. That constitutes elder abuse. I would report it to the Hospital and adult protective services for the county where the hospital is. If someone at the hospital is saying it's legal you can call the Omsbudsman and report it so they can come immediately and kick the DPOAHC out.

If somebody comes to visit that may endanger the patient's life then yes. Otherwise no.

Also, my sister who had MPOA did prevent me from visiting our mother except on pre-scheduled days.

Just an FYI- you can get employees at the UPS store to notarize documents and they are not witnessing whether or not the person is competent. Most banks will not allow these type of documents (Wells Fargo won't).

My response is from the other side. I have a step-brother that stole thousands of dollars from my mom and step-dad. At my step-dad's funeral before my step-dad was put in the grave his son and grandchildren were asking about probate.

My step-dad was the smart one. He knew that his son would probably act that way at his death. He did a will on his own to protect my mom. The son has access to nothing.

Prior to getting ill, my step-dad would not allow me to call his son or grandchildren that had not contacted him in over 5 years. I even had his doctor's to ask him and he said no, he did not want his son notified. He also told me not to even call them when he passed away and I was not to give them anything. I should have honored his wishes, but I couldn't imagine as a child not knowing that your parent is seriously ill or dying. I called to let the son know that his dad was dying and it took him hours to return the phone call. He actually called about a minute after his dad passed.

At the cemetery the grandson's caught me in a moment of weakness. They asked to come to their grandfather's house to see where they had played when growing up. I allowed them to do so and they were like vultures asking and taking things out of the house.

My step-dad was wise enough to protect my mom and himself prior to getting ill. I was my step-dad's DPOA and currently my mom's DPOA. I'm also the Executor of his Estate and I'm also Executor for my mom. I've had all the locks changed on their home, put alerts on their accounts and notified the AL that under no circumstances are the son or his family to have any contact with my mom. The attorney and the doctors recommended this. My mom has dementia and she still remembers how the son did them and still gets very upset.

My mom has 5 children that love her very much and we are all in agreement that we will fight for our mom and make sure that her best interest is taken care of. If we manage my mom's money she may have enough money to last 3 years in AL. She is 89. I was told that prior to being eligible for assistance that if money is needed in the next 4 years that she would be required to do a spend down until all the money the son took was used or either the son would need to return the money. That $100,000 has been long gone. I don't see how any child or decent person could steal or take advantage of their own parents.

I'm saying this because everyone's circumstances are different. If I was being kept from my mom for selfish reasons, you bet I would be putting up a fight.

For the POAs I got for my mom, we did have two unrelated witnesses provided by the notary, who verified on the documents that they did not fit into the "related" categories (such as friends or relatives, for example).

However, while I didn't have a chain around Mom's neck dragging her in, I'm not sure they can really tell whether she was being forced to sign or not. How do they know I didn't tell her a story about doing something bad to her if she acted out, for an example? If a person is scared, I think there's a good possibility they'll sign out of fear. Also, notaries to my knowledge don't perform a competency test -- that's not even really possible for them and sounds complicated, too. So, just because it's notarized doesn't mean the person signing is competent.

Don't assume you can't do anything about this or to challenge it if you think it is worth challenging. Notaries are fallible as is the notarization process.

The MPOA can limit visitors ONLY if the patient agrees!!!

As a general rule, if your mother didn't have sufficient mental capacity to understand what she was signing, then it's not enforceable.

Scott A. S. - Eldercare attorney

What is, "was going to be ed" mean? As far as a Medical Power of Attorney, the person appointed is acting as if he/she was the person who is doing the appointing. And yes, the MPOA can limit or prohibit visitors.

You should talk to an Ombudsman at the hospital and request proof in writing that your visits are restricted. Often when patients sign in they specify what access is given. Get it in writing even if it is signed by a POA.
Then go see a lawyer and ask for a "show cause" as to why you can't see her.

Have you tried asking the person barring you if he would let you visit the patient while he/she was along so they could control the visit? I know that might have already been tried or might be awkward or impossible, but it is just a thought. Even from state to state each POA the way it is drafted/worded is what dictates what it empowers & what it doesn't.

If you can manage it I would try to visit at the same time as the POA is visiting & with setting it up in advance.

angelbus10, the only person who can answer that question is the PATIENT!!! Besides, DPOA's are only effective if/when the patient can NOT answer for themselves!!! Hell, I'm mom's DPOA & the n.h. where she's at FINALLY let my nurse care advocate access her chart!!! THAT was a fight I'm glad is finally over!!!

I am my mother's POA and have her Healthcare POA as well. There is nothing in the agreement that states that I have the right to say who can and can't visit. You could look at a "blank" form online for what a POA states and see what you think. POA was explained to me as being able to handle my mom's financial issues, sell her home and make decisions affecting her financial well being, her healthcare POA only gives me the right to make decisions if a doctor has declared her incompetent. Don't let yourself be bullied by anyone when it comes to your mom! Best of luck.

I may have somewhat of an answer here. I am barred from seeing my stepmother by her POAs who are fighting me in probate court. I am sure they don't want her to tell me anything. I have not tried to visit her nor will I so I am not accused to trying to influence the court case but she has told others that there is a restraining order for me for 1500 feet. I asked my attorney if this were true and he says it is not or I would have been notified. I have never been notified of such an order either. So, good luck. If someone doesn't want you there, even if it isn't the one you love, you are probably going to be denied access.