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The latest with my mother is that she is scheduled for a numbing injection in her back on December 29. Saw pain management, and he says there’s a lot of degeneration, old compression fractures, etc. He is going to do a two-part procedure, the first of which is a numbing injection, and if that works, she will get a nerve ablation at some later point not sure when. Y’all might recall that she’s been on 10 mg Norco since her cervical spine surgery in May. This is well past when the surgeon would give her medication. Her PCP volunteered to do it. This is when her thoracic spine started really hurting and doing PT for the cervical spine surgery. And before that, during our 10 years estrangement, and before that, she really had tendency towards taking too much of a variety of medication’s. Was found outside passed out and diagnosed with opioid abuse. The PCP cut her off from pain meds in June 2021, when he got in trouble. But now he readily prescribed them again. And to be fair, so far, I have not seen her this time over using them. I was just at her house and counted her pills and she has an appropriate number left.


So we’re finally going to get some pain management in the hopes that she can stop using opioids. I don’t have a lot of faith that this will actually stop her pain. I’ve been reading that these procedures are hit or miss and need to be repeated, etc. She won’t have the money to keep repeating them.


The current pressing problem is that due to the opioid shortage, I have not been able to locate a pharmacy to have them call her meds to. I have called 18 pharmacies within a 50 mile radius of where we live and nobody has the medication. So I guess we get to see what drug withdrawal looks like over the Christmas holiday on a 75-year-old person. She says she’d been through it before when they cut off her meds before, and she did not have withdrawal. But I don’t know if this is true, because I was not around her at that time. She could be telling me this because I noticed she tends to hide things from me, stating she does not want to worry me. So I hope she is well enough to undergo her procedure on the 29th so we can at least try to get some sort of remedy to this situation.


I’ve been asking her to conserve her pain, pills, gradually reduce usage given the difficulties we’ve been having in finding them the past couple of months. This is the first time I’ve been completely unable to find them. And of course she has refused.


The pain doctor did prescribe her Celebrex. As of yesterday evening, she had not yet tried it. It would be nice if the Celebrex actually worked and did not cause her any problems. But she already has IBS and I’m not convinced that it won’t mess up her stomach. As usual, with her, all of the options are bad.

My mom had a lot less pain once we got a whirlpool walkin tub (she was basically wheelchair bound by this time) . She took about a 30 min bath (tub would maintain the heat during bath) and flexed a little after she was warm. Mom had spinal stenosis, and osteoarthritis with a hip and 2 knee replacements, as well as a rotar cuff repair and carpal tunnel surgery. As she got 80+, several arthritis medications bothered her stomach and at 85+ pain killers effected her balance. Mom didn't take much pain medication beyond a an aspirin or ibuprofen with food in later years, but she seemed to get more relief from the bath and me massaging lotion afterwards than the medications.
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sp196902 Dec 23, 2023
Just curious how much those walk in tubs are. I always see the commercials and they offer 2500 off for them so I am thinking they must cost a lot.
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It is often very difficult to change from a Medicare Advantage to a supplement plan: you can be reused for pre-existing conditions in this situation. I changed in the opposite direction--from a supplement plan to a Medicare Advantage plan, and it's working very well for me, but I did a lot of checking before I changed and understood the risk if I ever wanted to try to change back. I decided it would be worth the larger copays if I were hospitalized to get rid of the large regular monthly charges.
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Are you in the U.S.? I suspect not, because the Norco hydrocodone + acetaminophen brand has been discontinued in the U.S. I am a U.S. chronic-cervical-spine-pain patient who is unable to safely take non-steroidal analgesics such as Celebrex because of a history of non-steroidal analgesic-induced ulcers. I am thus on opioids that are very carefully managed by my physicians and me. Recently I was unable to fill my Percocet (oxycodone + acetaminophen) at any in-network local pharmacy because of the opioid shortage. However, my Medicare plan also includes a mail-order pharmacy benefit. Usually, I don't use it for prescriptions of fewer than 90 days duration, partly because of a 5-7 delay shipping time, but they did have Percocet, and it is on the way as I write. So if you are in the U.S. and your mother has a mail-order pharmacy option, you might have some luck going that route. I don't know if healthcare systems in other countries include mail-order drug benefits.

Is your mother taking 10 mg Norco a few times/day or just once/day? This may seem like a stupid question, but she may have more pain at a particular time of the day. If only once/day she is probably NOT physically dependent, and withdrawal may not be an issue if she does run out. You can read about managing Norco withdrawal at the site www.drugs.com, my go-to site for reliable online drug information. If you are trying to have her conserve medication, she could reduce the daily dose by cutting the pills in half and thus taking 5 mg instead of 10 each time she takes it. That could be less traumatic than cutting down the frequency of taking Norco. I'm assuming here that Norco pills, like Percocet, can safely be cut; check with the pharmacist.

The Celebrex should help cut the pain, but it will probably not cut the pain as much as the Norco does. One other short-term possibility, assuming Norco remains unavailable, would be to ask her physician to add Tramadol, a weak narcotic, to the Celebrex until Norco becomes available again. Tramadol may be available when stronger narcotics are not. Another possibility for neurogenic pain is pregabalin (brand name in the U.S.; Lyrica). It is often useful for severe pain (not for me, unfortunately), and it is not an opioid. I assume, also, that one of the goals of the surgery is to reduce the need for pain medication. Perhaps after the surgery and some recovery, a strong opioid, such as Norco, will not be needed.

The best of luck to you and her!
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Oedgar23 Dec 23, 2023
We are in the US. This is also complicated because mother has had some addiction issues in the past. She has had neck pain her whole life from in a car accident. We were in in 1976. She only just now got her neck fixed. But her psych problems plus her chronic pain resulted in a pill addiction. She was removed from taking them about a year and a half ago when her PCP got in trouble. She was found passed out outside her house and they diagnosed opioid misuse. But after she had her cervical spine surgery, her PCP without being asked, really just agreed to start giving her the Norco. She’s been taking 10 mg three times per day, Though just lately, she claims to only take it once per day. The real kicker is that she is taking two pills at bedtime. Plus zaleplon for sleep. Oh, and gabapentin as well. She says tramadol won’t help. She’s been on strong pills all of her life basically so I’m sure she has a real physical tolerance to them. The mail order is an option. I had not considered. We probably need to look more at how that works. They only prescribe her one month at a time though. And until now, I’ve never wanted to mess with mail order, but we may not have a choice.
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lealonnie: Speaking of a "big mess", that's a good description of me as well. I've gone downhill physically in the past year, which is pretty scary since I'm the primary point person for keeping our living situation together. I'm still able to do the grocery shopping, laundry, light cleaning, kitty care and financial tracking, which I hope to be able to continue as long as my husband (94) is still with us. If he predeceases me? Possibly, VSED or off to Switzerland! Although we both hope to avoid moving to a facility, neither of us intends to depend on our adult children for care.
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I have a spine that's pretty much mush. When I was hospitalized in March and had a full spinal MRI, the orthopedic team came into my room early in the morning and looked at me in an odd way. Asked me if I was able to walk at all? They were surprised when I said yes.

I take 1 Tramadol a day which the doctors are more willing to write prescriptions for than any other pain meds. It takes the edge off a bit. But not a lot more than 1 500mg Tylenol and 1 Advil together. And a heating pad and a back binder/brace when I plan to go out. And in my cupboard, btw, I have a bottle of morphine and oxycodone I don't take. My oncologist will write me a prescription for literally anything, no problem. Nothing works, in reality, for severe back issues and I do enjoy pooping so there's that too 🤣😂. Constipation is real with pain meds, but not with a Tramadol a day.

The trouble with addicts is they lie, hide, act secretive and will go to any lengths to get their drug of choice....at OUR expense. Do what you can for mom w/i reason, then detach with love. You have your own issues to deal with which ate no less real than her issues. It's fine to help her, on your terms, w/o getting TOO wrapped up in her problems. These women have a tendency to make THEIR problems into OUR problems and we wind up having difficulty separating them.
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Oedgar23 Dec 22, 2023
I need to ask about getting her a back brace. Several have mentioned it
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All I can say is be kind and not judgmental of mom. Chronic pain is so awful to live with. I wake up everyday in pain, walk around with it all day and go to bed with it.

Judicious use of Tylenol #3 has kept me upright and functioning well enough. I tapered off of 10 mg Norco years ago and really didn't feel like it was any more effective than the Tylenol #3.

Withholding pain meds is a tough call for Drs. They are really being scrutinized.

I hope your mom's back injections help. For some people they are worthless (me being one)..they're just the hoops we had to jump through before surgery could be approved.

Good for you for helping mom to be able to get her meds. I didn't know that pharmacies hold back pills for certain patients. Don't know how I feel about that.

I understand the 'opioid crisis'--but I also know that the biggest abusers of them are people in the medical field (this comes out of the mouth of a Dr. who knows. He said the biggest abusers were doctors themselves and patients were suffering for it.)

Pain meds have a place in our lives--used appropriately. I feel for anyone who has to have them or they simply can't function.
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Oedgar23 Dec 22, 2023
I really do have compassion for her pain. Watching her wince as the pain Dr examined her… the pain is real. I also have chronic pain. It’s awful. What I don’t have compassion for is the behaviors caused by her mental illness. The danger her choices put me and my brother in. Her choice in men was mainly the issue, with the last one (husband number 7)exposing himself to my grandmother in 2004. When that happened, she divorced him. And then later TOOK HIM back, denying he’d done it. Years later, after my brother cut her off, she quietly admitted to me she knew he’d done it but kept him around for his money. Her second husband was violent, and as a “bonus” had a teen stepson who did unspeakable things to me for three years. There was one particular occasion where I felt she knew something was up, but she looked the other way. There was also some neglect of us on her part. Some abandonment when she was married to an alcoholic. Or the fact she still tends to lie, her hoarding. But yes I’m ok with helping her pain. As long as she’s not abusing the pills, which she’s not at this time (but a long history prior) I’m ok with helping her.
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Well done, OEdgar!
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Update… I contacted the doctors office one more time, and they told me to call another pharmacy in another neighboring town. I was told they do have the medication and they will give it. She told me what Walgreens was also telling me, and that is that they are reserving it for their regular customers. But I guess with it being a holiday, and the fact that my mother is elderly, she said she can give us a month supply. hopefully this will buy time to see about the pain management procedure. We see mother’s PCP on December 28, and I want to pick his brain about how safely to get her off the opioids.
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I guess the one positive in this is that she already takes a couple of medication‘s that are known to help with withdrawal symptoms. She regularly takes gabapentin, and has a small supply of a low-dose of Librium anyway.
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Alva,
Found the book, free on Kindle.
Thank you, you are so helpful and knowledgeable.
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You need to call the doctor who can likely get some medication to hold you over until you can get some, that being via the hospital. Or go to the ER as last resort. Letting someone cold turkey off opiods will NOT WORK.
The awful thing with opioids is that they cause this cycling of pain which is rebound, and often caused by the addiction. Just reading a memoir by a guy who had shattered leg and pelvis with severe nerve damage, motorcycle accident. His leg withered and almost useless and pain excruciating. That despite opioid addiction. Started walking the Appalachian Trail with brace to cure himself of opioids and pain. He has so much in that book about the pain cycle and how opioids actually end up HURTING and CAUSNG pain through this habitual cycling in the brain.

Nothing like spinal compression and fractures for pain. My heart goes out to your Mom. I hope the procedures help. The withdrawal a whole other problem. Good news is that this author said the pain wasn't worse without the opioids when he stopped them. Book is Only When I Step On It by Peter Conti. I think free on Kindle, or at least cheap.
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Oedgar23 Dec 22, 2023
And what’s interesting is that lately She’s been saying she doesn’t even feel the pain pills help that much.
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Nerve ablation really helped my husband for almost 2 years, he is not taking any opioids since.
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I'm sorry you're going through this

I would contact her surgeon and PCP and ask them what to do if she starts having withdrawal symptoms (my guess would be take her to the ER).

Also, why are these procedures costing her? Does Medicare not cover them?
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Oedgar23 Dec 22, 2023
She has a Medicare advantage plan with a large deductible. It’s unfortunate that we’re not able to get both procedures in this year. I had to really work with her to persuade her to turn loose of the money to pay the $325 facility fee for this one. I don’t even know what the doctor himself is going to charge.
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