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My mother is an invalid, I take care of her at home. My brother last year took care of her for a few months as well and we would split time with her but I noticed whenever I took her back with me she was in worse condition. My brother is a compulsive manipulating liar. My brother was promised a large cash gift by my mother who is quite wealthy but it is still being held in the joint bank account I have with my mother. My brother got sick and has been staying at my house for the last 3 months because of my stupidity for feeling sorry for him. During this time I have come to realize he is a complete alcoholic, but one of those ones who hides it very well so he can trick a lot of people and was able to somehow keep my mother alive for the time she was with him prior. My mother cannot talk or write anymore. I caught my brother with my mother telling absolute lies about me and trying to manipulate her against me and into going to live with him and going out of the country. I heard every word he said and came in on him telling him he has to give me his bank info for me to transfer his cash gift from my mother, then he needs to get out of my house by the end of this month. There are no witnesses to his alcoholism that I can testify in court. I do not trust my brother at all to be able to take care of her properly but he is able to manipulate my mother very well and she is able to nod to questions so if she was brought before a judge and asked if she wanted to go traveling to Europe with my brother she would no doubt nod, because she is deluded by him no doubt because she was married to another alcoholic our father for decades. I do not want to be forced to loose tens of thousands of dollars fighting my brother in court maybe for years and maybe in the end custody removed from both of us and given to the state. I just want to know ideas on if there really is any way to protect her from him taking her places when we both have the same power of attorney for care with no primary, and without being forced to fight him in court and possibly even loose or make things worse. I would like to keep his gift from him as well but if I did then he would try and sue me for that as well. We are in Canada so the law may be different here but anyone with ideas how to get this alcoholic out of our lives may help. I just forsee him turning my mother against me then him taking her somewhere and her getting worse physically while there under his drunk care where it will be much harder for me to take care of her after they come back which makes my life harder as well and it is hard enough by far already.

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Philis, I just found this post, it clarifies for me some things you said on the other one.
First, I think you are overreacting over the whole POA issue. POA for health is put in place to have someone make decisions for you if you become incapacitated. Unless your mother's doctors are looking to you and/or your brother for direction on 'pulling the pug' or your mom's level of dementia is so great that they need you to co-ordinate and approve of her care it will never even come up.
As financial POA you control the purse strings, so it would be pretty hard for your unemployed brother to take her out of the country without your help. Since she lives in your home you also can deny him access to her unless you are present, so the opportunity to manipulate her wouldn't exist. If you truly feel he will move to obtain guardianship over her then you probably do need a lawyer to pursue that guardianship for yourself, but if he is just yanking your chain then you can just tune him out.
Also, I wouldn't fight over the money your mom promised to him, it is after all HERS to give.
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As I said before, Mom needs a lawyer. Get her one.
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He does not menace when he is drunk, he just appears tired. He masks it very well, I found out he has been doing this for maybe 20 years so he is a master at appearing normal while being drunk.
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So he has PoA. That doesn't mean he's not a danger to mom if he's drunk. Call the police if he's drunk and have him removed for menacing. Then you'll have the police as witnesses to his drunkeness.
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"Tell your brother that he is no longer allowed unsupervised visits with mom, and that if he continues to talk against you, he won't be able to see her at all."

I would like to do that but how could I do it legally since he is 50/50 for healthcare POA, would I not loose if he took me to court and after loosing tens of thousands in legal fees as well? There is no way I can prove his alcoholism in court as there are no other witnesses to it except me.
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I didn't read your reply beyond it appears mom contracted to give him that gift. What right do you then have to NOT give it to him? I'll answer my own question. You are wrong to withhold that gift. The rest of my post stands. But honor your mom's commitment. I don't care if he's blind drunk every night. Mom contracted. Pay up.
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It is not even firstly a money issue since he is also the heir 50/50 with me in her will as well, it is more that he knows how to hide his alcoholism and I can't see any affordable way of getting full guardianship of her and getting him out of the apt and keeping him from taking her to live with him without spending large amounts of money with lawyers which would probably make me die of a stroke myself or disgust. I won't refuse him coming to visit her at my place (not sleeping over though) but I don't want him taking care of her long term. I am thinking if I just stood in his way in the door if he tried to take her on a trip my mother would turn against me in confusion as well since she would not like him moving from my place as he knows how to play into her and she wants to go traveling with him as she doesn't take anything seriously.
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Phillis, you sound paralyzed with fear that anything you do will be held against you. I think you need a lawyer for your mother who can take on this problem and that lawyer needs to be paid out of mom's funds. Neither you nor any lay person can solve this problem.

Second, you sound as though you may be depressed. Find out what resources are available for you to be seen by a mental health counselor so that you can get the support you need.
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It sounds like you need to visit an attorney to see what options are available to help your mother. Perhaps money could be held in a trust with an appointed trustee. There could be ways to protect your mother from financial abuse that will remove the problem from being your direct responsibility. I am not personally comfortable with your denying your mother and brother access to each other, but you could give someone else the say-so over financial handouts.

Does anyone on the group know what type of attorney is a good one to consult about trusts and such things that would protect an elder's money for family abuse? I am not versed in these things, so couldn't give technical advice.
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You've explained in great detail your situation and been given some good advice. Make some decisions and take some action to get this guy shut down.
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Also I know for a fact he would go to the death refusing to give up his health poa, he wants to have that morality position and would never openly to others show that he does not want to take care of her. He would never say it to me either he could be drunk as a skunk still talking to my mother about taking her on a trip thinking he is competent to take her, he is absolutely 100% unwavering in his delusion that he is not only competent but more competent then even me.
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Yea I wish I had done such things, but because I have poa I was afraid I would be charged in the past for directly putting money into his account before the gift affidavit was signed so I have only ever given him cash or her bank card to use. Without the affidavit there are hard rules in canada now where a poa is supposed to account for every single dollar spent. We have never lived like that and at the beginning I thought my brother would be reasonable in the amount he would spend but it just got worse and worse. I am a perfect example of why you should never let siblings into your house as an adult, you will have bad things happen and learn they have a dark side. Someone said above I should take it to court and have the government appoint a guardian, the problem with that is that she would most likely be taken from me and put in a home that way which neither she nor I want. Plus I have not worked for over 5 years since starting to take care of her so I have nothing myself now either except what is in our joint bank account, I have even been too afraid to buy the smallest of things, not even some old used car thinking someone is going to use that against me if I was ever questioned of my role as the financial poa. Poa laws here are too strict here in canada now and I wish I never was granted it since you are always in a vague area and can be charged criminally not just civilly and it is hard to get my mother to back me up since she can't talk or write and can only vaguely nod to questions but she can be manipulated by questioning to be put in a state of confusion as well. If she could talk or write then I would easily take him to court and have her make all declarations but it just is not possible. So there are no bank records more then just cash atm withdrawls. I wanted to give him his gift money because up to now he has been directly using her bank card which I can't prove is him taking out the money, so if he has his gift money anything he spends will be his responsibility and I have the affidavit to prove it is not me stealing the money. Then if he goes and squanders the money at least I will have a basis then to get full cusdody and never have him around anymore. I know he is going to squander the money before or after her death but I can't change what my parent's wished for him under the law no matter how much I may despise him and not trust a thing he says or does or see him as capable of safely taking care of her. At least I found this forum it is unbelievable to see how many similar stories to mine there are out there, this shows to me that I swear I will never allow this to happen to my own children if I ever have any, I will prepay some place in another country to be sent to to be taken care of, I won't destroy my children's lives by putting such things on them as was put on me. Also I am hoping giving him his gift money will make him go away on his own accord maybe which will allow my stress level to at least go down a bit so I am not as insane and tormented by him as I am now. Anyways I told him I want to give it all to him immediately and for him to move out, so even if I should maybe give a portion of it I don't know how to change what I said without him using it against me in some way.
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You may be able to create a log of monies given to him from your bank records; he could challenge it but you might be able to subpoena his financial records and get the other end. You need to see an legal eldercare specialist, and they are NOT going to tell government agencies anything; they have the legal duty of confidentiality.
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It seems to me that you need to decide what has the higher priority to you - hanging on to control of her assets or getting her safely away from your alcoholic brother. You mentioned not wanting to get the state involved and lose control of the assets, but that may be the only way to get your brother out of the picture. See an attorney. Maybe there would be a way to reach some sort of an enforceable agreement with your brother in which he gets his "gift" and then agrees to give up health POA and leave your mother in your care.
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yes gift money is stated in an affidavit signed by her in front of a commissioner of oaths. I am thinking if I don't give him the money he is going to take me to court and make up bs elder abuse case against me since I never log down money that is spent. Also I know he will come after me since he is sick and has no income or work himself except the gift money i have been trinkling to him. I don't see how I can get a restraining order unless he makes a death threat since he has 50/50 health care poa which specifically grants him same legal right to decide where she lives and who she lives with. Also as I mentioned he can be stone drunk and you would hardly if at all notice it, he is not a stumber or a slurring type at all, all he does is talk more and repeat himself more when he is drunk. I know he won't move on as he has no where else to go and will use the excuse of living in my place and "taking care of her" to justify demanding money. His definition of caring for her at home is watching a movie with her when he is not sleeping which he does most of the time drunk. Otherwise it is taking her on luxurious trips where most of the money is spent on his bar bills and paying for drinks for the whole bar, etc. He could actually use this against me as the financial poa since I just sent him money when he had her and didn't refuse so he could say I didn't have a problem with funding him before for such things what right do I have now to change the behavior. I don't even know if I am going to be able to get him out of my place easily, he is probably going to just want to take her directly on a trip or he will not leave my place. I hate myself over and over and over again for feeling sorry for this guy when all he does is use and slob his way through life. I wish I had never let him in here and now I don't know how to get rid of him without him escalating POA issues against me in retaliation. I am just tormented in chaos right now.
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Is the gift mom promised in writing? If not a contract between them, a promise is unenforceable.

Stop giving him money. You are the POA over her finances. Done. Tell your brother that he is no longer allowed unsupervised visits with mom, and that if he continues to talk against you, he won't be able to see her at all. Also tell him if he isn't cold sober you will be calling the police to have him removed.

This is more or less the nuclear option, but it'll get the job done. If he can no longer get money from mom, he'll probably move on to take advantage of someone else.

If he makes a scene, gets loud, comes over drunk, get a restraining order against him to keep him away or risk jail time.
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I am not going to have the state involved and given control over her funds that is the only thing I have left as I am primary POA but only for finances, not for health, in canada they are separate POAs for finance and healthcare. He only has 50/50 poa with me for her health.

I don't log anything I just give him cash when he asks for it but am sick of how fast he goes through money so I want him to take legal responsibility for his gift money now, but at the same time I am afraid that giving him the entire portion of his gift outright is going to open me up to more problems as he will then have lots of money to take me to court to get permission to take her traveling while he is a careless looser alcoholic who cannot be trusted with her. I could use force to keep him from taking her from the apt but then he would call the police and tens of thousands in legal fees would end up as the result in the end as well.
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This is a tough situation with joint POA. You seem to have circumstantial evidence regarding your brother but it could easily be seen as a he said she said situation. You should consult and elder law attorney and start keeping copius records of any and all financial transactions of your mothers funds. You may want to discuss guardianship of Mom if she is incompetent.

Also keep a daily log of your discussions with brother, any comments he makes to mom, any evidence of drinking etc. Dates, times, everything. If you should end up in court this could be helpful to your case.

Are you signatory to her accounts and paying bills?
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