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I stopped saying yes to everything that she wanted me to do. I have dual power of attorney. In 2016 the doctor that was caring for my my grandmother told me and her daughter that my grandmother needed a POA ASAP and she refused because she was going to live in Illinois with her son. My grandmother lived with me until she was placed in a nursing home with the ok from some of her children. October of this year I decided to let my grandmother come home to live with my aunt to please her. My grandmother pays for rent, food and her own expenses. She doesn't receive the amount of care she needs and now I'm banned for her house. I attended all of my grandmother's doctor appointments and my name is on every document up until this very day. I'm still in contact with all of her nurses because they contact me before they come out for visits. Now they are fighting for legal guardianship and have no clue when my grandmother is having a medical emergency. I just did a well check on my grandmother a few days ago and she was having a health crisis that could've ended her life. I love my family but not as much as I love my grandmother. She still has 13 out of 15 living children and I still ended up being the POA. I need advice ASAP. Please!

Truth does hurt some times. Just because you didn't like it doesn't mean she was rude.

Best of luck.
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Niecy, I have read all of your comments and I have a few concerns.

1st being that you yourself told us that your grandmother is not receiving proper care in your aunts home, nor do they know when she is having a medical emergency. You know this and have not intervened. You are actively planning on leaving grandma there.


2nd, now you are in control of her money you are drawing up a rental agreement for your illiterate aunt to sign. Someone that can't read, can't sign a document that is legal without representation. She should be the one having a rental agreement drawn up. This could be misconstrued as placing her under duress to sign to get paid.

3rd, you are climbing tacys frame because she has offered you good sound council on what a POA is responsible for and you don't want to hear the reality of the repercussions to you for the things you have/are doing.

As a POA you agreed to make sure she is cared for in the best possible manner, regardless of what any family members say, you have the authority and the responsibility for that authority. Just because you are not taking care of her doesn't absolve you of the lack of care and dangerous conditions she is living in, you agreed to ensure her wellbeing, you can be prosecuted if something happens because of what you stated in your question. I don't care what the cops told you, they mostly just don't want to be involved in family drama, so say whatever to shut it down.

Instead of getting angry, you should be thanking her for pointing out things that you have/are doing so you can implement immediate changes.

If you don't want to know, you shouldn't ask.
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anonymous856512 Jan 21, 2019
My Grandma is getting better care now I just visited her. My aunt's daughter was there when she agreed to the terms of the agreement. They're no longer trying to take me to court because it too expensive. And my grandmother would be living with me very soon.
I didn't appreciate the rudeness. But I thanked the person for their advice. I did intervene all within the proper timing. My auntie realized its things that she wasn't able to pick up on. I've made arrangements for my my grandmother to have a CNA present when my auntie is not home plus more family is getting involved.
Alot of people on this post gave me very good advice and I used it. My auntie didn't want to be held accountable if something happened to her mother and it was due to neglect that she didn't realize was happening at the time. With me having record of conducting a well check when I did I was cleared by law enforcement and was assured that I was not in the wrong when I wasn't allowed to the house. Plus if we would've went to court the cops and pragmatics that came out would've had to also be in court. Yeah one of the cops personally went through the same thing.
Now everyone is way calmer and thinking before they act. That goes to show that I wasn't wrong and communication goes a long way. Maybe I was letting my auntie push me away from what I was originally doing as far as being able to visually see my Grandma to make sure she was ok. That was purely out of respect for her even though I was dying inside every day that I didn't go see my Grandma.
My Grandma raised me. She gave me POA before her dementia started to worsened. When I was visiting her she still remembered me that was the moment I knew that the only thing that could keep me from seeing her is death. Getting advice from the people on this page helped me get to that point. If you ain't going through this you will never understand how I was feeling and what emotional toll this situation was taking me through. I truly love my grandmother. So I'm sorry but I'm tired of people being rude to me. Just because you give some good advice doesn't mean you could be rude in the process. If so just keep your advice. I didn't get rude and I thanked that person for their advice as well. And if you couldn't understand why you should responded. Have a blessed 2019.
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Are you really sure you want to go through with this? As harsh as this sounds, you have not been fulfilling your POA responsibilities.

Do you have a rental agreement with your aunt for you gma's rent? You do know rent would be taxable income for your aunt? So what happens now if aunt says its not for rent but gma's care? Your on the hook for violating labor laws. Sorry, your aunt sounds kind of shady and shady people can be pretty smart.

Secondly, aunt cannot ban a POA. Unless there is an injunction, I would take the police and remove gma from aunts house. You state she is not being cared for, it is your legal responsibility to make sure she is. If not, your the one who will be responsible.
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anonymous856512 Jan 18, 2019
My auntie isn't smart she can read. Plus I called the police and thy hey said if we go to court they will have to testify anyway since I had a well check done and there was issues found. My grandmother will be removed from that house as soon as me and my husband close on our new home. Plus since my grandmother's money hit the bank my aunt has apologized and is trying to mend our relationship. But I'm not going. My grandmother was hurt when she found out about what my auntie was doing. Plus now I have everyone on my side from her doctors to lawinfocement. Plus as ps is involved now. Thank you for responding. But in Indiana I was assured that I'm not going to be blamed for anything. They all agree with me plus I was given documents from every single person that is in contact with my Grandma that would back me in court. When I wrote this post it was truly a emergency matter. Now today things is falling into place. Yes you helped me out a lot and I'm definitely about to do a rental agreement asap. So thank you for your advice and help!
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You want to contest the guardianship petition, and you will be better off if you have your own lawyer. At least in Maryland, the court would prefer a person whom the incapacitated person has previously appointed POA (i.e., you) over someone else, and it's possible that with the POA in place, a guardianship will be completely unnecessary. The fact that SS made you representative payee is already a sign that government entities will consider you to be the best choice to make decisions for your grandmother.

Yes, definitely show up in court and make the case as best you can that you are perfectly capable of seeing to your grandmother's needs. I would be prepared for your aunt to challenge that, though, so come with documentation of all that you've done for her!
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anonymous856512 Jan 18, 2019
Thank you for your advice! I have every piece of documents form 2014 up until now. And everything you said was said by many other creditable people. Thank you again!
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Here are a few things that stick out to me: "Grandmother is not getting the care she needs." "I am banned from her (aunt's) house."Then my aunt started 'demaning' money for rent and food. That was ok but she started to increase what she wanted every month."

If someone is going to take advantage or abuse someone they have to isolate that person, therefore, that person has no way out and/or anyone to help he or she to get out.

How did you become POA? Was it up to grandmother who made you POA or did it just happen that way? I ask because if grandmother made you POA she had her reasons for not making one of her kids POA.

Look at the word 'demanded' that is a strong word! Aunt could have just stated "hey, I need to raise the rent because of xyz, but to demand for more money!" Hmmm

"They are now fighting for guardianship." Why? What I mean is, why now? Why not earlier on, like when grandmother started having problems, or when aunt first move back? Ask yourself does aunt have the money to fight for guardianship? Another question I would ask myself is "is aunt having money problems", as in needing more money? Prehaps aunt can't afford the new house!

Why are you banned from the house? Did you do something wrong? I am not stating that you did, I am trying to walk you through my thought process. If you did nothing wrong than that tells me there is a hidden motive by your aunt.

I personally smell a fox in the hen house!

I use to play chess and now I look at everything like a chess broad, which in any given situation I look at it from every point-of-veiw, if I am to go up against another person than I take into a count what are their moves. What will they do next? I am telling you this because again I am showing you my thought process. Maybe it can help you to look at this situation from different point views.

If possible I would get guardianship over grandmother. At the very least, I would have her removed from your aunt's house. I would not care if I started a war in the family because it comes down to 'what is in the best interest of my LO'. This is easy for me to say because I have always been someone who never shys away from a fight! In my family I am known to rock the boat, good, bad, or indifferent! Do you call grandmother and talk to her? If yes, then perhaps you could talk to her about moving. If this is not possible than I would talk to her when you take her to a Drs appt. If it was me I would find away of getting her out of that house! Meanwhile, I would tell the aunt this is what I will pay for grandmother's rent nothing more and nothing less. Write an agreement up and make the aunt sign it. If she refuses than I would simply state "you will not receive any rent money until you sign this." What will your aunt do? Kick out grandmother out? This may seem harsh, but from your post and your replys they want to play hard-ball. However, you must look at all of your options, and ask yourself "what am I willing to do and/or give up to win?" Not that this is about winning, this is about protecting someone who can no longer protect themselves!

"For every problem there is a solution, we just have to find the solution!"

If aunt does go to the courts for guardianship make sure you go and have your own lawyer. Don't forget to document everything that is going on!

I hope this helps. Good luck!
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anonymous856512 Jan 18, 2019
Thank you and your being very helpful!
I was given temporary POA from my grandmother's doctor on 2016. My aunt was present at the hospital at the time. She refused to take POA because she was quitting her job to go live with her son, his wife and kids because her son had just came home from the navy and moved closer. At the time her some was able to pay her a nice wage to help around the house. My auntie moved back because her son had started giving her less money then expected. She isn't good with money. She had a gambling problem now she had developed a shopping problem. When she started spending all of her money up that's when her problem with me came about. My grandmother bagged me to never let her have extra money for no reason. They also wanted me to give up my grandmother's life insurance policy because it only pay for burial. She said I needed a bigger policy so money could be leftover after the funeral was paid for.
After my grandmother came home from the hospital the doctor stated that someone would need to get paperwork done to become the official POA three months later. O went to my grandmother's children including my auntie but they all declined and suggested that I be the POA. So at this point my grandmother was able to ln ake me her POA. Not to mention that I have her on video stating why she made that choice.
My Grandma raised me differently from how she raised her own. Not to brag but to show that she thought me everything I know. She always told me when I was a child that reminded her of herself and she was raising me to be able to take care of her when the time came. I know this might not matter but going through this with people I trusted and loved my whole life is hard.
I'm currently getting a rental agreement together now. My husband is in the military and one of his military colleagues is a lawyer and is helping me get things together. I've always came to the conclusion that if she doesn't want me near her house then my grandmother could no longer stay there. I tried to respect her wishes by staying away but I rather make sure I'm putting my grandmother's best interest first and making sure she's ok.
No court date has been set because they don't have the money to start the process. I told her it's a expensive process but she didn't want to believe me. She found out the hard way.
So currently I'm getting ready to go see my Grandma and present my auntie with the rental agreement.
Thank you for the positive feedback. I'm happy I found this page. You're very kind and helpful!
P.S.
I have years of video and voice recordings. And now I have documented evidence from family members, doctors, nursing home, hospitals and nursing agency's that back me up. And when I recently did a well check on my grandmother the team that came out said that if I would ever have to go to court the would have to be present at the court day to testify on their findings.
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You sound like a good person who is trying to look out for a vulnerable adult. And hats off to you. I can come across somewhat strongly, because we, my sister and I , are in thick of it. It's a nightmare.

Who says potential ward needs a guardian? Are there letters from two different doctors who have had ongoing diagnostic medical relationship with? Is your person incapacitated? Says who?

OTOH, there are cases of a nurse's aid hooking up your ward with another attorney to remove a present POA and replace. It happens. You would not believe some of the stuff in elder law. You wouldn't.
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anonymous856512 Jan 18, 2019
All of my grandmother's doctors from the last 5 years only know of me. They only communicate with me even though they are aware that she no longer stay with me. None of the family knows her medical history and never cared to learn about it. I tried to let them know when I know but they refused to take them time to let me educate them about her. If my grandmother's children do decide to ever take me the court the judge might think the whole case is a joke and a waste of time.
My Grandma had 15 children. Now 13 is still living. First thing he would ask is why is she even POA with all of ya'll living and capable of being POA? Guess what the answer would be? I'll tell you. They would state that she (neaning me) was taking care of her and at the time it was the right choice at the time because she was handling everything medically and financially. The next question would be. Why do you think she's not capable of being POA now? That question I can't answer now because I'm still trying to figure out why now myself.
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Document everything that has been happening from the time you became POA, ask doctors, nurses and anyone else to write an affidavit about grandma and her condition, as well as your participation in her care. This is family drama and the judge doesn't want to deal with it, keep all emotions out, only the facts. This will help you tremendously. Every document, every word should be nothing but the facts and no emotions or accusatory statements. That will be a hard job because auntie is going to throw stones and you can't react.

Take all of this to the guardianship hearing and submit it to the court for consideration about grandma and her progress or decline based on the who, what, where and when of her care.

What is the other POA saying about all of this?

Good job getting rep payee. Be sure and keep good records and if you have to pay auntie rent for grandma, make her provide a bill in writing so you can account for the money.

Best of luck getting grandma the care she needs without a family meltdown. She still needs the love her children can provide.

Do this even if you hire an attorney, it will save you money for their services.
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anonymous856512 Jan 18, 2019
Thank you so much! I'm currently getting a rental agreement together now. U have videos, text messages and inboxes from family, documents from every doctor, nursing home, nursing agency, law enforcement, and I even have a copy the interview from the social security office stating that I gave all the information they needed to make their decision.
I tried to make my auntie the Co POA before my grandmother came home from the nursing home for the third time but she declined.
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Sounds to me like sniffing around for money. A guardianship is expensive. So far I am at $5100.

And we are not through. You can Go to court. Ask for audit by the court. The Guardian has to submit annual paperwork on how funds spent. What was guardian's care of ward. Where is it is. How often is guardian seeing ward. Huge paper work.

A guardianship trumps a POA, but it is very heavily monitored. Is there a bankruptcy by potential guardian? A felony? Money owed to ward? Mental illness? Immoral character?

Theres a BUNCH of hoops.

ETA to clarify. The 5100 got the actual guardianship. We will have EOY fees for accounting of how money spent. Could be 500. That's what my firm charges, if the records are good. It is easier if ward in a facility. We will still have fees to set up Miller or qualified income trust for Medicaid. We will have CPA fees because of substantial IRS debt.

A guardianship is not at all cheap. Not at all.
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anonymous856512 Jan 18, 2019
Providing information about money spent would e easily done. My grandmother was in a nursing home for 2 years and before that she had a bank account that I documented every penny spent. I recently closed the account in December of last year. I knew it would delay her check. Now January and February checks will come out together in paper form. I'm able to put the money into my account because I could transfer it into another account that is set up for her. And now that both of our names is on this account everything is being watched and documented solely by me. When I was able to speak with my Grandma at first she didn't understand but when she was able to realize what was done she was extremely happy and stated that she made the right choice.
Im not really comfortable with going over there but I'm about to go. I don't want her there but I got to make a choice asap. She will be 85 soon and her dementia is getting worse. I don't want to take her back to the nursing home and she no longer has the ability to walk. So my home is not a good place for her because all of the rooms is located upstairs.
Cone to think about it I think military one source might be able to direct me to someone who could give me so insight on something I just remembered.
Again thanks for the advice!
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If you don't want POA or guardianship, you do not need to go to court.

If you want the POA or guardianship, yes, you definitely, need to go to court!
And you need an attorney that specializes in elder law. Why would you have grandma released from a facility to go live with auntie?
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anonymous856512 Jan 18, 2019
It was a family decision and my grandmother wasn't supposed to be in the nursing home for long term care. It was always temporary. She didn't return back to my house because she wasn't able to go up and down my stairs at all anymore. My family was super close at that time. But when my husband returned home from military duty in November everything went south. I'm still confused about what happened. I asked on so many occasions and I could never get a answer. But today o went and visited my grandmother and we both was happy to be in each others presents. We ha a brief chance to chat before my aunt started to become rude and flat out mean towards me. But I'm still enjoying the feeling I had when she looked over and realized who I was. Her smile was beautiful and very much neeyso I could know she was ok.
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Yes and you need your own lawyer to fight this.
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anonymous856512 Jan 18, 2019
Thank you!
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Why guardianship? Family dysfunction?

If you do not want POA or guardianship then you do not need to be in court. You can relinquish the POA to the successor if one is named.

There must be much more background to this story.

Court may decide to appoint a court guardian as CW said.
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anonymous856512 Jan 16, 2019
I never said I didn't want POA but I want the matter to be handled. Yes everything is steaming from family dysfunction. Everything was fine until my auntie moved back and got a house. I was making sure my grandmother was being cared for in every way. Then my auntie started demanding money for rent and food. That was ok but she started increasing what she wanted every month.
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If you want feel that your grandmother needs you to oversee her care then of course you need to be in the court for the hearing, and you will need to have a rock solid case on why you should be appointed as guardian rather than your aunt - unless you feel that grandmother is still competent and doesn't need guardianship at all, in which case she needs to be able to prove her competence.

I don't understand why you would allow her to live with a person you feel isn't taking proper care of her. And I sympathize with your aunt who undoubtedly does not want to have to run every aspect of her mother's care and expenses past you when she is the one looking after her. Just be aware that these kinds of family disagreements over guardianship can sometimes result in neither of you being awarded the role, instead the court could appoint an unbiased third party.
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anonymous856512 Jan 16, 2019
Thank you but now I was made aware that is only about her money but now social security has made me her representative payee. Social security is aware of the situation and now my auntie as stated that she doesn't want me to come to her house. Which means I can't visit my grandmother. There hasn't been a court date set up only threats of going to court. Should I go file my own case?
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