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I was amazed at what happened to me today. The Care Manager of the team looking after my mam questioned the validity of the LPA I have for my mam’s Health and Welfare when I produced it. He was questioning whether my mam was fully aware of the gravity/authority of the document she had signed. This is strange to me – since the document does not become active until my mam is deemed incapacitated in her ability to make sound decisions. And since they are giving her a full bill of health in that department; handing back full financial control from the Department of Works and Pension to her - for example; they should not be concerned about the LPA.


The Care Manager – questions the LPA process – since my mam now denies having been informed fully of the weight of the document she was given to sign. This was after 6 months from the time of her signing. Five to four months before her signing, the symptoms of her current deterioration began showing. A friend of mine asked whether I have an LPA in place – in case it is Dementia she is developing. So I looked into it, with my mam fully in the know. I don’t like doing things that affect her – without her knowing; it’s a kinda child-mum thing that I feel I owe her an explanation for anything I do that’s serious. So she signed the document, it got validated two months later by the Office of the Public Guardian - UK. It all looked legit to me.


IMO the Care Manager is from the school of ethics that places more weight on the person’s current opinions, feelings or current wishes – over what they have previously decided or agreed on. I do agree that a person should not be tied to their previous expressed opinions – such as those they expressed when they were teenagers Vs to how they now feel as adults. Similarly, a person should be able to change their Last Will and Testament – if they so wish. However, when it comes to Mental Health – LPAs effectively restrict the person’s choices and tie them to their previously expressed will; it holds them to their word. That’s essentially what a legal document does; record what people have agreed to and compel them to stick to what they say.


The LPA becomes a “guardian” by law; and that Law is not open to interpretation by those who are not party to the initial signing of the document. There is no opinion or feelings required in order for the LPA to be validated after the signing; it’s simply a matter of law.


IMO - the Care Manager – sees this as a potential problem – for his team’s caring assignment. In their ethical framework – the most current opinion or ideas of their patient is paramount. They must give priority to the feelings of the patient; any request they make is held sacrosanct. It really is a very attractive ethical framework to live and operate by; giving the patient all the support they want; acting on every desire they express (within safety limits of course) – is just oh so “caring” – you could stick a bushy tail on it and call it a bunny rabbit; it’s delightfully attractive and kinda cute. But the long-term interest for those caring for their mums and dads – are relegated to the side line and essentially ignored.


This is a warning to those who believe the Law is above personal feelings. If you have an DPOA in mind, and you proceed to give all those concerned in the medical circles a copy – I would suggest be prepared to meet up with some resistance from those who adhere to this “care” ethics. There is a term banded about for it – but the results are less justice for society in the long term.


They are so focused on “caring” for their patients – they will resist any rule that will hinder their ability to facilitate bringing about the patient’s wishes. It’s all about mum’s and dad’s feelings first; your feelings are irrelevant. The DPAO allows you to have a large say in what happens to mum and dad – that may not be to their liking; so don’t expect those in charge (if they hold to this ethical frame) to be happy with that doc.

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I think this has less to do with the actual POA than with the personal belief system and agenda of the Care Manager, there are countless stories on this forum of people who have been bullied by those in authority.
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VAuser1 Jun 2019
I feel impelled to agree; in seeking to care more for my mum (apparently) they show they couldn't care less about me.
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I have a mental health POA for my dad that is none revocable. He can't change it and he has a back up if I decide not to fulfill that role.

He was all good when he signed it, but I guarantee he would say he didn't know what he was signing if asked today.

Do you have any legal recourse if they are just impeding your ability to care for your mom? It sounds like some power hungry piece of nothing is exerting what they think is their authority.
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VAuser1 Jun 2019
It's complex, because they still want me to be my mum's carer - but without support for me. It's kinda cheaper for the Trust that way.

I was just shocked at how he was so impelled to intervene out of his "ethical" dictates. Yet he's got no qualms making me homeless. This is the hypocrisy of these social justice types; it's love and care for some - couldn't give a monkey about others.
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It doesn't work this way in the US. We have no care teams and no one to determine a POA is in effect and then says when its not in effect.

POAs are limited in what they cover. Usually the Principle has stipulated what they want and don't want. Guardianship is a whole separate thing and controlled by the courts who want an accounting every year. POAs are not required to do an accounting unless someone requests it and then lawyers are usually involved. Guardianship covers more, u have more control.

My POA came into effect when Mom could no longer do for herself. Her Medical listed what she did and did not want. I had no problem with the staff talking to me and the decisions I made for Mom.

I can see the up side of a care manager. Really great for someone who has no family but the impact to the family should be considered when the Care mananger is considering the clients decisions.
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VAuser1 Jun 2019
The POAs or LPAs are really an insurance when it comes to decision-making. But the Care Manager is not questioning the usefulness of the LPA - he is questing the creation of the the LPA. He is not acknowledging the deterioration of my mam six month down the line from December when she signed; to him she's fully competent. Her symptoms (disregarded in their significance) started Feb/March last year; the erratic behavior swung unpredictably; some weeks she was normal, then some days - she's just aggressive and plain crazy. Hence the LPA was suggested - as a precaution for future developments. I would have thought the Care Manager would be supportive of the LPA; but he's turned out to be "ethically suspicious" on how it was derived. Bear in mind - the need for LPAs are multiplying in the UK as the the baby-boomers are growing into their 80s and 90s. The Government have simplified the acquisition of LPAs to the point that no Lawyers are necessary; people can get one online for their mums and dads.
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