My parents wish to pass peacefully on their own terms. Is there a pill that aging parents can take that will let them pass peacefully should they choose?
Thanks Evamar and Fedup for bring up Pegasos. It is the "other one" that Amy Bloom brought up in her memoir of her husband's Alzheimers, and his chosen death at Dignitas. I hope there will be more and more availability to people, more choice. And you can go through the entire process and then make the decision not to go through it at the time of "appointment"; Dignitas made that clear to Ms Bloom and her husband, and said they would be only too glad. For many the availability is enough a comfort, and they will find the courage to go on helped by the knowledge they are not "forced to". I think these things are changing, and with an aging population with a lower birth rate, those statistics may help. Why in the world should people, having had their lives, have to be FORCED to go on when they are ready for the final rest?
Pegasos in Basil Switzerland has the least restriction for dying with assistance. In Canada, there is lots of restrictions but once in hospital and there is no hope, it is few days process, two independent drs and no family can have any influence especially those who could benefit. By March 2023 Canada will allow assisted dying for those with mental diseases. It is controversial as many believe it is impossible to establish certain criteria, but, some argue people with mental disease suffer just as much and should have a chance to die with dignity. Netherlands is one of those countries that people with mental disease can apply for assistance in dying but only 10% is accepted
Here is the problem for people with dementia: in the U.S. states that allow assisted suicide, you must have a prognosis of six months or less to live. The kicker is that you must be competent to make that decision and by the six-month mark someone with dementia very well may not be. In essence, in the U.S., the system does not allow most people with dementia the dignity of assisted suicide. I find this outrageous.
I have done a certain amount of reading about this subject as I have a pronounced expectation of developing dementia. I refuse to subject myself and others the trauma of finding my body and I don't want to make a hash of it and end up in a coma.
I've noticed in my admittedly shallow examination of the problem is that in the U.S. there is religious-based opposition to assisted suicide. I find that unacceptable. Surprising to me was the opposition from the disabled community. I can't remember exactly why this is but it might be that they are afraid they might be pushed into it.
Canada has or had an assisted suicide law but you have to be a resident and that takes five years. Also, I think some sort of political wrangling has affected the law, so it might not be as good as it was at first.
This leaves Europe. Switzerland, the Netherlands, Belgium, and maybe Luxembourg have assisted suicide available. I found the same thing that AlvaDeer did. Dignitas requires you to go through a complicated qualification process and costs a lot of money. If I'm remembering correctly, you might even get there and find out that Dignitas won't qualify you.
I then stumbled upon an online CNN article about a woman who received assisted suicide at Pegasos Swiss Association. (See: https://pegasos-association.com). At least on paper it seems superior to Dignitas. Here is a quote from their website: "Pegasos believes that it is the human right of every rational adult of sound mind, regardless of state of health, to choose the manner and timing of their death." You don't have to have a six-month prognosis. As long as you are competent (according to their physicians) you can choose when you want to die. I think it is somewhat less expensive and it the process seems simpler.
It's easy to talk about suicide. Doing it is another thing. If I decide to do it, I want to make it an enjoyable trip to Switzerland. I dislike flying, and I've always wanted to make an Atlantic crossing (Queen Mary 2). From there maybe the Chunnel to France, then a barge or more likely a train to Switzerland. And it will all be one way! Who knows what will happen. I could eat a bad oyster and that would be that.
Anyway, my observations are not helpful to wildandfree. Her parents may be too frail to make such a trip. So I wish them all the best.
People in the U.S. believe that only God is allowed to tun off the life's switch of people. So, the health establishment take advantage of this belief and squeeze the last penny from your heath insurance or Medicare, by performing procedures that unnecessarily prolong your suffering. They don't care if you end up your days in a nursing home. Quality of life is ignored..
Unfortunately quality of life and options not even DISCUSSED with patients and families by MDs nor taught in medical schools as issues. When my brother was in the huge teaching hospital in Palm Springs it turned out they don't even HAVE a palliative care specialty. Was told this by the resident who is training to become a specialist in palliative care. She, too, was appalled. We are dealing with follow the money partially, but I saw when it went from medicare paying for a vent forever to balking at this that the MDs went from telling caring families "Are YOU telling ME you want me to KILL your relative" to "We really can no longer help by beating your relative to death with CPR; this sort of prolonging of life is more a torture to them; we would like you to consider hospice consult now and allow for withdrawal of heroic measures".
For anyone who listens to Fresh Air with Terry Gross on NPR, she had a great show on the "right to die" movement on March 9, 2021. I tried to link it, but I suppose one can't on this site. But the archive is at freshairarchive.org, and you can either find it by that date, or by searching for the title: "Inside the Fight for the Right to Die." It's all about what options are available in what countries (there's a lot about Canada).
Somebody mentioned a book written by a woman who took her terminally ill husband to Europe for a dignified death. Terry Gross also interviewed that author within the past couple of months, though I don't know the date.
Personally, I don't have kids. My only sibling doesn't have kids. My husband's only sibling doesn't have kids. No close cousins. None of us ever will (unless somebody becomes a stepdad late in life). So I already know that I'll be a ward of the state, if I live long enough. My mother started showing signs of dementia in her late seventies. How she is now, a few years into it, is chilling to me. She's getting good care, but ... it's still chilling. If I can help it, there's no way I'm going down that path. And I think it's unfortunate that there's still a bit of a stigma around even talking about assisted suicide. We treat our dogs better than we treat our terminally ill.
You've got that right. I've thought the same thing. There are better options for our pets when the time comes to prevent them from suffering longer than necessary. I also have no children or husband. I am not looking forward to getting to a point where I will need assistance with daily living. I pray that day never comes. I have one brother that I've assigned as my Executor and POA, but i know he has become less interested in helping me with anything. He just doesn't have any empathy for anyone that has problems, nor does he want to spend a dime helping a relative. Very sad but true.
My Dad died in his easy chair watching Monika Lewinsky on Larry King Live. My Mom heard him sigh and looked over. He was gone without a moment to say "
Someone I know said out of the blue that they had killed their aunt decades ago. The aunt was on jars of prescribed painkillers and tranquilizers that older people could relatively easily get, and the aunt decided that she was done.
PS I think many in the USA self-deliver themselves, some with help of family and some without. If you frequent any of the sites you actually learn all sort of stuff. It simply isn't something that can be legally admitted to. Here we have all those folks accidentally going of what I mentioned before, of fentanyl high that was TOO TOO high, quite painlessly, and those ready and willing to leave from simple exhaustion with a long life are forbidden an exit.
Here in Canada Medical Assistance in Dying MAiD is legal, but there are criteria you have to meet to access it.
I personally know of two women who have done so.
A doctor has to be present to administer the medication. Family and friends can be there too if that is what you want. My Godmother's celebration of life was held with her there, then she left the room, put on a beautiful nightdress and was brought back into the room in a bed. She died on her terms surrounded by loved ones.
Tothill, does canada require a diagnosis of an illness ? That's the requirement in all of the USA. Death must be expected within 6 months, sort of the "hospice rule" if you will. And here many doctors will not assist in this, even in a state where it is legal. I had a friend with cancer and long standing MS in Oregon who had to go through heck-and-high-water and died trying to get access.
No. There is not. And I would guess that your own research has already proven that to you? There is Dignitas (and one other) in Europe, but there is nothing in the United States. Amy Bloom, the author whose husband was diagnosed with early Alzheimer's describes in her recent Memoir, In Love, taking her husband to Dignitas to avail themselves of their services. It was an onerous long process, one in which you must prove you are not depressed, are rational and capable of the decision, must see MD and psychiatrist and provide letters from same, must give documents of every step in your life including marriages and divorces, must be processed slowly and methodically. We are talking even your dental records! Moreover, there is a cost of some 10,000 to Dignitas itself, and other costs for flights--you are basically looking at about 30,000.00 in cost. I can suggest that you join organizations such as Final Exit and avail yourself of the information that is freely and legally available to the public through them. Being a member of such places keeps you up to date on our laws, on the options for the United States, including the voluntary choice not to eat or drink. It is quite a shame, because every single year people pass peacefully and ACCIDENTALLY in their sleep in their own homes--often entire families--from carbon monoxide poisoning, without a single sign of distress, while those who are in pain, finished with their long lives, have no options to go peacefully on their way. Rights to Death laws are being passed, but they require a lot of documentation, examination, and most of all the assurance by doctors that the person has fewer than 6 months of life left due to illness. This link: https://endoflifechoicesny.org/education/resources/vsed/vsed_overview/ gives you an overview of voluntary self-chosen not eating or drinking as a mode of self exit. Make no mistake--this is dreadful way to go and much support is needed. It takes much longer than you can begin to imagine for the body to fail due to no intake. You are thinking in terms of a month. And the fact is that as the body shuts down there are bouts of real madness from deprivations of basic electrolytes that cannot be imagined as well. So your answer is really a simple No. Not at this time. The subject has been brought up before on Forum. And I was surprised to see the many expressions of support for a way to exit when life is meaningless and a burden. Best out to you. Do know that the internet is FULL of information on this subject should you have interest in researching it for yourself.
Some states in the US have physician assisted suicide. My SIL is a dr and has promised me a quick trip to Oregon when the time happens. He provides the meds, I take them.
We're not there yet, but I swear I will not go through another cancer treatment. It's something SIL and I have talked about. He is a proponent of physician assisted suicide, however, in our state, it's a felony, I think.
In the meantime, your parents can opt for Hospice, or even Palliative care.
some states it is legal. There are tough regulations, as there should be but some are ridiculous. I think I read one once where the person has to physically take the medication themselves. In some cases like ALS that would not be possible.
I hope there will be more and more availability to people, more choice. And you can go through the entire process and then make the decision not to go through it at the time of "appointment"; Dignitas made that clear to Ms Bloom and her husband, and said they would be only too glad.
For many the availability is enough a comfort, and they will find the courage to go on helped by the knowledge they are not "forced to".
I think these things are changing, and with an aging population with a lower birth rate, those statistics may help. Why in the world should people, having had their lives, have to be FORCED to go on when they are ready for the final rest?
In Canada, there is lots of restrictions but once in hospital and there is no hope, it is few days process, two independent drs and no family can have any influence especially those who could benefit.
By March 2023 Canada will allow assisted dying for those with mental diseases. It is controversial as many believe it is impossible to establish certain criteria, but, some argue people with mental disease suffer just as much and should have a chance to die with dignity.
Netherlands is one of those countries that people with mental disease can apply for assistance in dying but only 10% is accepted
I have done a certain amount of reading about this subject as I have a pronounced expectation of developing dementia. I refuse to subject myself and others the trauma of finding my body and I don't want to make a hash of it and end up in a coma.
I've noticed in my admittedly shallow examination of the problem is that in the U.S. there is religious-based opposition to assisted suicide. I find that unacceptable. Surprising to me was the opposition from the disabled community. I can't remember exactly why this is but it might be that they are afraid they might be pushed into it.
Canada has or had an assisted suicide law but you have to be a resident and that takes five years. Also, I think some sort of political wrangling has affected the law, so it might not be as good as it was at first.
This leaves Europe. Switzerland, the Netherlands, Belgium, and maybe Luxembourg have assisted suicide available. I found the same thing that AlvaDeer did. Dignitas requires you to go through a complicated qualification process and costs a lot of money. If I'm remembering correctly, you might even get there and find out that Dignitas won't qualify you.
I then stumbled upon an online CNN article about a woman who received assisted suicide at Pegasos Swiss Association. (See: https://pegasos-association.com). At least on paper it seems superior to Dignitas. Here is a quote from their website: "Pegasos believes that it is the human right of every rational adult of sound mind, regardless of state of health, to choose the manner and timing of their death." You don't have to have a six-month prognosis. As long as you are competent (according to their physicians) you can choose when you want to die. I think it is somewhat less expensive and it the process seems simpler.
It's easy to talk about suicide. Doing it is another thing. If I decide to do it, I want to make it an enjoyable trip to Switzerland. I dislike flying, and I've always wanted to make an Atlantic crossing (Queen Mary 2). From there maybe the Chunnel to France, then a barge or more likely a train to Switzerland. And it will all be one way! Who knows what will happen. I could eat a bad oyster and that would be that.
Anyway, my observations are not helpful to wildandfree. Her parents may be too frail to make such a trip. So I wish them all the best.
Somebody mentioned a book written by a woman who took her terminally ill husband to Europe for a dignified death. Terry Gross also interviewed that author within the past couple of months, though I don't know the date.
Personally, I don't have kids. My only sibling doesn't have kids. My husband's only sibling doesn't have kids. No close cousins. None of us ever will (unless somebody becomes a stepdad late in life). So I already know that I'll be a ward of the state, if I live long enough. My mother started showing signs of dementia in her late seventies. How she is now, a few years into it, is chilling to me. She's getting good care, but ... it's still chilling. If I can help it, there's no way I'm going down that path. And I think it's unfortunate that there's still a bit of a stigma around even talking about assisted suicide. We treat our dogs better than we treat our terminally ill.
I personally know of two women who have done so.
A doctor has to be present to administer the medication. Family and friends can be there too if that is what you want. My Godmother's celebration of life was held with her there, then she left the room, put on a beautiful nightdress and was brought back into the room in a bed. She died on her terms surrounded by loved ones.
And I would guess that your own research has already proven that to you?
There is Dignitas (and one other) in Europe, but there is nothing in the United States.
Amy Bloom, the author whose husband was diagnosed with early Alzheimer's describes in her recent Memoir, In Love, taking her husband to Dignitas to avail themselves of their services. It was an onerous long process, one in which you must prove you are not depressed, are rational and capable of the decision, must see MD and psychiatrist and provide letters from same, must give documents of every step in your life including marriages and divorces, must be processed slowly and methodically. We are talking even your dental records! Moreover, there is a cost of some 10,000 to Dignitas itself, and other costs for flights--you are basically looking at about 30,000.00 in cost.
I can suggest that you join organizations such as Final Exit and avail yourself of the information that is freely and legally available to the public through them. Being a member of such places keeps you up to date on our laws, on the options for the United States, including the voluntary choice not to eat or drink.
It is quite a shame, because every single year people pass peacefully and ACCIDENTALLY in their sleep in their own homes--often entire families--from carbon monoxide poisoning, without a single sign of distress, while those who are in pain, finished with their long lives, have no options to go peacefully on their way.
Rights to Death laws are being passed, but they require a lot of documentation, examination, and most of all the assurance by doctors that the person has fewer than 6 months of life left due to illness.
This link:
https://endoflifechoicesny.org/education/resources/vsed/vsed_overview/
gives you an overview of voluntary self-chosen not eating or drinking as a mode of self exit. Make no mistake--this is dreadful way to go and much support is needed. It takes much longer than you can begin to imagine for the body to fail due to no intake. You are thinking in terms of a month. And the fact is that as the body shuts down there are bouts of real madness from deprivations of basic electrolytes that cannot be imagined as well.
So your answer is really a simple
No.
Not at this time.
The subject has been brought up before on Forum. And I was surprised to see the many expressions of support for a way to exit when life is meaningless and a burden.
Best out to you. Do know that the internet is FULL of information on this subject should you have interest in researching it for yourself.
We're not there yet, but I swear I will not go through another cancer treatment. It's something SIL and I have talked about. He is a proponent of physician assisted suicide, however, in our state, it's a felony, I think.
In the meantime, your parents can opt for Hospice, or even Palliative care.