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What I mean is, if a loved one is by nature, not narcissistic, can dementia make that person become that way, or if they were always narcissistic, is it more pronounced with dementia?

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I agree with cwillie. There is a certain amount of self-focus and regression that comes with the aging process that is natural. And then there is real narcissism. My grandmother has the first. She shows all of the classic signs of the self focus and regression to childlike behaviors, some 'tantrum' like acting out, pouting, loss of social filters, says whatever comes to mind, etc. But she has empathy, shows love, genuinely cares about other people. She hasn't lost that ability even as her world has narrowed.
My FIL on the other hand, is a true narcissist. He has always been this way and it is getting worse the older he gets. He has narrowed his world down to his children and their spouses. Even his grands will rarely be in his presence. He has no empathy - he does not possess the ability to empathize. He cannot understand how his behaviors impact others. He cannot understand that others do not exist to facilitate HIS life. In HIS reality, everyone else exists to ensure that his life is facilitated to his standards. He gaslights, he bullies, he abuses. He is the textbook definition of a narcissist. But that did not come on by virtue of aging. It HAS been made worse however as a result of aging.

So I would definitely say it has to do with whether they were already a true narcissist BEFORE they got older or if the behavior is new.
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mrsgumby11 May 2021
Thanks that is a good answer.
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My Mom has moderate dementia.

She has zero ability any longer to understand the needs of others.

She sees those around her solely as means to take care of Her needs.

Mom VERY MUCH reminds me of my two year old grandson. He actually, though, is beginning to have empathy for and demonstrates love to others.

It's REALLY hard to watch my mother like this. Sigh.
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Narcissism has become the buzz word of the decade and is over applied to all kinds of difficult behaviours. Think of it as more like they have regressed to a childlike state - they have limited autonomy, they have lost many of their social filters, their world has become smaller and therefor their personal issues dominate their thoughts, and they may find it hard to communicate effectively or even identify what the problem is so they may be prone to meltdowns. Don't forget that the brain is damaged in much the same way as someone who has had a traumatic brain injury.
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mrsgumby11 Jun 2021
Narcissism still exists regardless of the elderly afflicted with dementia, regressing back to a childlike state. If they were self absorbed and selfish in their youth, I can't see that changing when they get older. I guess I'm speaking from personal experience, having a father who has always been manipulative and controlling with all of us. Now these traits have intensified to the point where it all about him, every conversation, every situation, reverts back to him. No matter what we talk about. It's me me me or I did this or this happened to me. So I choose now to tell him as little as possible about anything that goes on in our lives. Because he just doesn't want to know.
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My MIL is completely and utterly obsessed with herself and has always been this way.

Aging (she's 90) has just made her 'filter' disappear completely, so the things she used to just 'think' now come flying out of her mouth w/o regard to who she hurts or what she says.

She's not sick, in fact, she's in remarkably good health. So it's not illness that she's complaining about--it's EVERYTHING.

Somehow, EVERYTHING is about her. She's not going to change, so we keep contact to an absolute minimum. In fact, I have not seen nor spoken to her for over a year.
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Maxiine Jun 2021
You are so
riight!Their boundaries go and the really awful
truth comes flying out of their mouths.I have had it if this is what they are REALLY like!
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Who they were before the dementia set in becomes more pronounced with the dementia because the mask falls off. They're no longer able to put up a facade and the filter erodes. My mother was always mean spirited and self centered. Now with moderately advanced dementia, she's SO mean and miserable it's insufferable to deal with her. I cringe at what comes out of her mouth, yet she sees nothing wrong with her toxic words. She's just a whole lot MORE of what she has always been.
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BurntCaregiver May 2021
lealonnie1,

You are right. Dementia will make an already insufferable, selfish, mean-spirited person even worse.
Just plain old age will do it too.
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It isn't "narcissism" any more than a toddler is narcissistic.
It is a world becoming smaller and smaller and not being able to comprehend the wide needs of others.
It is BRAIN DEATH.
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BlueEyedGirl94 May 2021
Cashew, for SOME people I think that is true. Dementia robs a lot of people of who they are absolutely. But not every senior is dealing with dementia. My FIL has ALWAYS been like this. For him it is most certainly narcissism and it is most definitely made worse by the natural process of aging, the limitations, the narrowing of his world and his narcissistic supply. I don't apply the term narcissist to people lightly because I have actually experienced life with one and there is definitely a difference between selfish behaviors and a true narcissist.
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I don’t believe it’s more prevalent just due to aging. My dad certainly wasn’t a narcissist, he always cared about others and showed both concern and appreciation for everyone. But what did happen is what I think is common. His health issues increased, problems without fixes mounted, he lost many friends and family, he could do less and go less, he became filled with anxiety and fear, he saw his world shrinking. So all that caused him to be more self centered. One day sooner than later we’ll all be there and sadly, know exactly what this feels like. We all may understand the change to thinking of ourselves, maybe even be rude and uncooperative. Aging isn’t for sissies
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mrsgumby11 Jun 2021
Maybe this is happening to my Dad. I suspect it is. He's not the man I grew up with.
I'm trying give to cope with the self involvement and other issues.
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I think every person who is not elderly today should take some serious self-reflection and consider how they treat others. Their family, their kids, their friends, etc...
No person who grew up with selfish or abusive parents should ever feel a moment of guilt if they drop them in a nursing home when they can no longer do for themselves.

No one should expect to get more than they were willing to give in this life.
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Yes, in general dementia makes one quite "self" centers and motivated. All of the stops are off that normally make us think about others. We are not truly capable of that. All our natural inhibitions go away. We become paranoid. What is meant as "help" is often seen as losses, of control of our rights, and fears of other losses.
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Yes. Narcissism is self preoccupation and those who have illnesses and pain are bodily preoccupied. The elderly worry that each ache may be a sign that the end of their lives is near. Many are basically scared to death and take it out on those around them. Depression often manifests as anger and irritability as well as seeming selfishness. I liked a book called Counting on Kindness where they write about an elderly woman waiting for her daughter to come. She waited and waited by the window all day and couldn’t really empathize with her daughter’s busy life or inability to spend more time or come on time. All she felt was her own loneliness and inability to function. Her daughter tried to tidy up and the mother just couldn’t point out the crumbs under the table. She had to be grateful for whatever she got. The mother remembered when she could do things for herself and didn’t have to count on kindness.
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