My mom is 93 years old. Currently in respite care. We are looking to place mom in a long term facility. Money is dwindling down & my dad is getting worried.
Having just done our wills, DH and I were advised against buying LTC ins. Told that even at our ages 61 and 66--it would be super expensive and we have saved and invested to the point that should the need arise, we're covered. Attorney said that they base the cost of LTC policies on actuarial tables and past a certain point, you are essentially uninsurable. At 93, I think that ship may have sailed.
My mother was always so proud she had a LTC policy. Guess how much it pays out? $35 a day. She's had this since 1976. It's basically worthless, and they spent thousands of dollars on it.
I expect it would be prohibitively expensive, even if you could get anyone to provide cover. As your mother is 93 and certain to require care, the premiums would more or less equal the fees because the risk is approaching 100%. You can *ask*, but...
Is your father also likely to need care for himself? I think the best thing would be to get professional advice on care planning, looking at their assets, income and needs jointly, as a couple.
Needhelp12, usually when people purchase Long Term Insurance is back when they are in their 50's and 60's. Due to Mom's age, as Countrymouse above had mentioned, it could be very difficult to find an insurer who would take Mom at her age and if they did it would be extremely expensive. There could even be a waiting time before the insurance could even be used, and a limit on how many years said long term insurance can be used.
Point of order - I used the expression prohibitively expensive in the context of a 93 year old who is currently in respite care and is expected to move thereafter to a facility.
But in any case while we're thinking about the couple in their early sixties. Assuming no change in premiums, and assuming they would not require long term care for twenty years, then 260 x 12 x 20 = $62,400 in premiums for $500,000 in benefits. Which wouldn't be a bad return if they were in a position ever to claim it. Except, how much care will half a million buy in 2038, do you suppose?
Over the past 40 years there have been roughly 150 different insurance companies that have sold long-term care insurance policies. Three of those insurance companies went through liquidation. All three companies were very small with financial ratings that were well BELOW average. Combined those three companies had less than a 2% market share of LTC insurance policies. The claims of those companies are being handled by the state guaranty associations. Long-term care insurance companies cannot decide to "close". They are obligated to pay all claims.
Naturally not; but that is why it is better to pay a financial advisor a fee for advice, rather than go to one whose commission is a closed book to you. Brokers paid on commission are incentivised to sell the most profitable policy whether or not it is, objectively, the best suited to their clients' needs. Moreover, they may be restricted in terms of what financial products they're able to offer, depending on how closely linked they are to insurers. And most important of all: their customer base comprises mainly worried, elderly people who have never done this before and can't possibly know what lies ahead. Not every brand in the market is a shark but these waters are most certainly thickly infested.
My great aunt took out cover with a very respectable provider indeed. Twenty years later it paid approximately one fifth of her care home fees. Well! - she could have taken out five times as much cover, or she could have done what she did do and let her bank invest the money for her instead. What you lose on the swings...
To be fair: properly regulatedLTC policies are not pyramid schemes (or not nearly to the same extent as governmental funding is, anyway). Premium income is invested (which is why you *do* care what the stock market does - that's your pension, your health insurance, your mortgage cover at stake); and in addition risk is laid off to reinsurers.
LTCshop- your a broker / Agent aren’t you? So what’s your commission on “partnership” type of policies you often tout? And what’s the renewing commission schedule after the initial?
NeedHelp - as others have said, at age 93 she is outside of the actuarial tables that are used for risk. And not just for insurance but for other financials - like a traditional mortgage.
Regarding LTC policies, my mom’s NH did NOT & would NOT accept any LTC policies. On a very defined sign in entry area and at nurses stations: Medicare, Medicaid or private pay only. I asked billing why and he said that for them (NH part of a small group of NHs) dealing with LTC insurance was way way too cumbersome. That each insurer had its own criteria and paperwork submitted to be paid; and there was a lot of foot dragging with insurers wanting additional information. The NH could easily fill their beds between Medicaid residents (& the state paid in real time), Medicare rehab stays and private pay residents, so no need to ever deal with LTC policies.
I have no idea IF this is a one-off or a trend. But if it is a trend then LTC policies will be good only for those who can stay in their home AND have family to provide all the other support when LTC personnel not there. The well spouse likely is the same age range & has their own health / aging issues, so family have to have the time & ability to caregive and plus deal with the household. If the elder gets to the point of 24/7 oversight needed no LTC policy will ever pay that coverage.
My mother was always so proud she had a LTC policy. Guess how much it pays out? $35 a day. She's had this since 1976. It's basically worthless, and they spent thousands of dollars on it.
Is your father also likely to need care for himself? I think the best thing would be to get professional advice on care planning, looking at their assets, income and needs jointly, as a couple.
But in any case while we're thinking about the couple in their early sixties. Assuming no change in premiums, and assuming they would not require long term care for twenty years, then 260 x 12 x 20 = $62,400 in premiums for $500,000 in benefits. Which wouldn't be a bad return if they were in a position ever to claim it. Except, how much care will half a million buy in 2038, do you suppose?
My great aunt took out cover with a very respectable provider indeed. Twenty years later it paid approximately one fifth of her care home fees. Well! - she could have taken out five times as much cover, or she could have done what she did do and let her bank invest the money for her instead. What you lose on the swings...
To be fair: properly regulatedLTC policies are not pyramid schemes (or not nearly to the same extent as governmental funding is, anyway). Premium income is invested (which is why you *do* care what the stock market does - that's your pension, your health insurance, your mortgage cover at stake); and in addition risk is laid off to reinsurers.
So what’s your commission on “partnership” type of policies you often tout?
And what’s the renewing commission schedule after the initial?
NeedHelp - as others have said, at age 93 she is outside of the actuarial tables that are used for risk. And not just for insurance but for other financials - like a traditional mortgage.
Regarding LTC policies, my mom’s NH did NOT & would NOT accept any LTC policies. On a very defined sign in entry area and at nurses stations: Medicare, Medicaid or private pay only. I asked billing why and he said that for them (NH part of a small group of NHs) dealing with LTC insurance was way way too cumbersome. That each insurer had its own criteria and paperwork submitted to be paid; and there was a lot of foot dragging with insurers wanting additional information. The NH could easily fill their beds between Medicaid residents (& the state paid in real time), Medicare rehab stays and private pay residents, so no need to ever deal with LTC policies.
I have no idea IF this is a one-off or a trend. But if it is a trend then LTC policies will be good only for those who can stay in their home AND have family to provide all the other support when LTC personnel not there. The well spouse likely is the same age range & has their own health / aging issues, so family have to have the time & ability to caregive and plus deal with the household. If the elder gets to the point of 24/7 oversight needed no LTC policy will ever pay that coverage.
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