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I'm so sorry for what you are going through. Do you have an adult (friend, family, pastor, teacher) that you could confide in about the situation. Speak with your sister & see if she wants to be with you as you speak with your dad & let him know how you feel & that you don't feel like you can care for her anymore & that you want to concentrate more on your studies. If he won't hear of it, contact someone in Social Services or Legal Aid to explore your options including emancipation. Hang in there. 🙏🙏
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Since you live with your parents, you need to respect their authority. That means talking respectfully to them and obeying them.

You do make a good case that you are probably over-burdened with caring for your grandma. No, you do not need to pay for a home health aide - which costs minimum wage for at least 4 hours a visit.

I suggest you have a series of talks with your parents about your workload at school, sports, and caring for grandma. You do need some "time off" for clubs and a social life. I also think it might be a good idea to talk together about the best way to care for her. Since she is incontinent and has dementia, she probably would do better wearing disposable undergarments. Depends is one of many brands available. She will probably do better with the pull-up kind if she can walk; they can tear off at the sides if she soils them. This will prevent a lot of the messes you wrote about. If she has dementia, she needs to be evaluated and diagnosed by a doctor. He/She can also put your family in touch with more resources available where you live.

You might consider that your time of taking care of grandma is soon coming to an end. If you decide to go away to college, then you can not be expected to care for her. And no, your parents can not make you pay for somebody to take on what was your family responsibility.
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gladimhere Nov 2021
I have always hated that word obey. Obey your husband, obey your parents? Nope on both accounts. Respect, maybe, obey absolutely not. This is an 18 year old young woman, her job is to learn to care for herself. She has helped with grandma for years and helped while she is able. She is not able any longer, she has given enough of her life to this situation. She now needs to work towards he next steps in her life!
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No get yourself Out of this!
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Willimia; I'd like to recommend that you go to a website: www.bogleheads.org

This will give you an education in how to manage your finances, live below your means and make good financial decisions down the road.
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I know I already posted here, but have been thinking about you today.

When you apply for housing, loans, grants, everything, make it ABSOLUTELY CLEAR that you do not have subsidized ANYTHING from your parents. That makes you basically indigent, but this is one time in life when that's GOOD.

Do you have a friend from whom you can rent just a room and get away? At the colleges, they always have 'roommates wanted' signs up in the Student Union. My daughter bought out one girl's contract for a fraction of what it would have cost.

You don't have to 'go far away' if you don't want to. You simply don't talk to these people anymore. You could live 100 yards away from them and still never be in contact with them.

I also found school counselors to be typically the worst when it came to helping out with loans and grants. My 5 kids all graduated college--and although we made it so they could live at home and covered their books and car insurance (as long as they were enrolled in school) I cannot say we 'put them through college.'

Actually, I did most of the legwork for them to help them get scholarships and grants. A couple took out student loans, but they were small and used frugally.

My SIL was disinherited when he married my daughter--he had just begun Medical School--his parents thought my daughter was not quality enough for their perfect son, so they pulled all financial help. He had no idea how to navigate the financial stuff, he'd been too busy getting a 5 year degree in engineering in 2-1/2 years. My daughter and I worked HARD to get him financing, she put a down payment on a small condo and worked and went to school to support him. He finished 14 years of medical training last year and came back home and is now making upwards of $500,000 a year. ALL w/o his parents. And boy, do they feel stupid now.

You can do this!!

Even if this is a troll, the info we've all shared could be of use to someone.
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Willimia Nov 2021
Yes, I will definitely do my best to earn scholarships and grants. My dad does have money saved up for college but I don’t want to use it because he always nags me about scholarships and affording college. I don’t really know how this works so I’ll talk to the college and career center. Thank you for the advice I hope things get better
(7)
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No it's not your responsibility it's your Dad's responsibility. This really sounds like a madeup story to me . I can't get my kids to do dishes. But if it is real just quit your Dad's using you and your sister because he's shirking his responsibility
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Willimia Nov 2021
I wish it was made up😭😭I think my dad has held too high expectations for us because we hardly ever talk back and get good grades. This may not add to the story but we are half-Japanese (my dad is white) and I really think obedience is a big part of Asian culture.
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A couple of things to find answers for:

1) How much spending money does Grandma have? Does she know what is happening to her money?

2) How much alcohol is Grandma drinking? Alcohol is one possible cause of bowel problems. It is also a way of keeping alcoholics quiet. Look around both properties for alcohol stocks, and trot over in the evening to check.

3) Grandma and mother may also be victims here. Mother may think she will benefit from the extra house ownership, but Father may be quite willing to chuck any family member under the bus.

Keep quiet at home and check carefully. You aren't in a position to confront anyone yet, and if any of this is true, Father may be very very angry.
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PeggySue2020 Nov 2021
This is such an abusive situation, Margaret. And a codependent one.

This dad has gaslighted the mother into providing care, and now this is on not only OP but the sister in 10th grade.

Dad needs a wake-up call for his behavior right now. If the gaslighting does not stop, it'd be fully endorsed for the future grandchildren of dad to be kept from him. And Grandma (I'm aware she has dementia) was not like OPs mom or anything near.

It comes down to that, Dad. You mess this up in 2021, and your kids aren't around in 2035 with their kids. Since obviously you won't help. Dad, you can keep playing games with these two houses when your daughter makes $180K/year on salary with full benefits. You treated her like this, I wouldn't blame her one bit, or her sister, if they just cut you out seeing that you are trying to stop them.

It's about him, it's always been about him...and even above his minor children.

Poo grandma needs to go to a home on medicaid or Dad needs to pay that $170K to make it a private nursing home for her.
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Talk to your guidance counselor about declaring yourself "financially independent".

It could be a good move for you on many levels
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Looking at the answers since I questioned the money, it’s even simpler. Dad bought the house in HIS name, and Grandma’s income is paying off the mortgage. Dad isn’t waiting for an inheritance, he already has two houses! He thinks he has all the answers. You need a few more answers of your own. This is fraud, sheer greed, not just sexism or old-fashioned family care beliefs.
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Your Dad sounds like a sexist. Get that student housing, get your degree, follow your dreams, and move far away from toxic relatives.
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Please don't apply only to local schools. In fact, go as far from home as you can to make returning for the weekend to be a big deal.

Talk to the admissions counselors at universities about your situation. You'd be amazed at what schools will do for financial aid if you're in a tough situation, but Dad does have to fill out the FAFSA for you to qualify. (He should have done that already.) If he refuses, schools won't give you any financial aid, so if that's the case, you need to become emancipated.

My daughter is an admissions counselor for a state university, and she's dealt with these scenarios a fair amount. At this point in your life, those admissions counselors are your best friends. They're there to help you, so make appointments with them and TALK to them. They want you to talk to them, because they don't have crystal balls to tell them what's going on in your life.

I have a significantly lower opinion of high school counselors, so since you're in the process of applying to schools, the admissions counselors are a better choice IMO.
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ZippyZee Nov 2021
MVP response here!
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I am suspicious that perhaps dad is manipulating this situation so as to increase HIS inheritance when his mother passes. He doesn't want to bring the scrutiny of Medicaid into the situation.

Please go talk with your school counselor, with or without you sister. If you are under 18, this could almost certainly be classified as child abuse.
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PeggySue2020 Nov 2021
Dad bought a whole new SFR for his mom to live in. Then he attempted to enslave his whole family including minors to take care of it. He is sacrificing his eldest daughter's college education and perhaps that of the younger minor daughter.

He's like what, 50 with a 18 yo and a minor. He probably thinks as long as he's feeding and watering them, that this is enough. His mom is probably only in her 70s and we all know, we all know, that elders with dementia or mental conditions only can go on for decades.

This selfish, sexist dad is making it all about "him" as the breadwinner. In his 50s. He thinks the OP will transition smoothly from taking care to pooping Grandma to dealing with his own fecal.

Just no. The future in 2030ish is that you two have your own family. What goes around comes around.

Or is his plan that you enslave your future children to poop clean up and dementia screechings when the time comes? Just no, not even with the two houses.
(5)
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You are in a very difficult situation. My advice is to find another place to live, perhaps in student housing or an apartment with other students. Apply for as many student grants and loans that you can. In order to be on your own, you might have to postpone some of the activities you are involved in now, but to be free from the expectations now being forced on you will be worth it. Your father is very wrong to do this to you.
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RUN, don't WALK to the University's Housing Dept and see what's available. Almost time for the semester to end, lots of move outs. Find employment at the U if you can or do not have access to a car. Student loans, if necessary. GET YOUR EDUCATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your dad is 120% wrong and reading his pompous statements turned my stomach.

My dad asked me to drop 10 hrs a week of my college classes to be able to stay home and care for my 3 younger sibs when I was 19 and he paid me $200 a month (that was a lot in 1975!) I did so and regretted it to this day. My mom was in a depressive funk and did not leave her room for almost a year.

Looking back, she should have been hospitalized--this lasted for almost a year and I was never able to go 'back' and get my degree or have the normal life an 18+ kids deserves and NEEDS in order to grow.

Dad was not a bully--far from it--and it was a different time. I do have some sense of sadness 47 years later--I gave up so much and nobody helped me or stood up for me. (And my mom was abusive all the time I was raising HER kids).

This hits too close to home for me--please, get away!!
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Willimia Nov 2021
Yes—I’m still in high school but I will try to get housing when I apply to college if possible. Thank you for your advice I wish I could move out sooner
(5)
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At some point this will end and then your dad will be stuck taking care of his mother or he will have to make others do it for him. To answer your question NO this is for you to do for the rest of your life. There are some great answers on the page forum. Since you are 18 and in university then you need to think of some of the following things.

Are you on your dad's income? Do you get financial aid? Both of these are tired together till you are off your dad's income. Discuss this with a financial aid officer at your University. Is your natural Mother still alive? If so you might want to get on her income? You will also need to discuss this with a financial aid officer. I would get these answers before you decide to move to University housing. If you move you will no longer have to care for your grandmother, but odds are your sister and mother will. If you care about what happens to them after you move out, you will need to have a discussion with them. Unless you all 3 stand up to your dad and refuse to take care of your grandmother someone will be left holding the bag.
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Jhalldenton Nov 2021
Sorry ment to say NO this is Not for you to do for the rest of your life.
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Willimia, you sound like such a lovely person.

Your grandmother is not your responsibility - that lies with your dad. IMO he is using you, your sister and your mom to alleviate his responsibility to his mother. He is using manipulation and guilt to hold you there. Telling you that you are selfish and that you're pushing your family away is wrong on so many levels.

Your dad needs to hire a caregiver and let you go live your life.

I am the main caregiver to my 94 yo mother and have never asked either of my two children (26 and 28) to care for her in my place. I have hired sitters to help me out so I can work very part time and get out of the house. I don't lay that on my kids.

I can tell you that you have every right to pursue your life and studies without a ball and chain around your ankle. What I can't tell you is how to navigate your family dynamics in order to accomplish that. Blessings and peace.
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Willimia Nov 2021
Thank you you sound lovely as well! I hope I can move out soon and my mom can understand that this isn’t normal thank you for the advice
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You get paid $20 a week? I take it your father isn't going to pay for college?

Your mother thinks this is okay? If she wants to be a slave, that's one thing, but to allow her 2 daughters to be made slaves, also? NO.

What does your sister think about this? Do you and your sister go to the same high school? I suggest a visit to the guidance counselor - for both of you to go together would be very powerful. Perhaps the school social worker will get involved. In your sister's case, this is abuse of a minor (in my opinion).

Is your father's name on the deed to your grandmother's house? Does she have any assets? Seems like he's making himself feel good (Mama won't go into a nursing home!) at everyone ELSE's expense.

What are your plans for after high school graduation? Will you be attending college locally? How will that be financed? Is the plan to continue living at home?
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Willimia Nov 2021
Yes, $20/week. He has money saved but expects me to earn scholarships to pay for it. My sister agrees with me, I’ll see if we could go to a counselor at school. Yes, his name is on the house (don’t really know why he would get two houses rather than one big one). I’ve applied mostly locally and hope to pay it through scholarships and attend wherever is cheapest. They want me to commute to save money, but I would much rather live on campus. Thank you for your advice
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You need to move into university housing. You’re fathers ideas and demands are not in your best interests. At 18 you are responsible for your own decisions. Do not let your father destroy your future.
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I’m taking up Dad’s comment “She’s not doing well - (close to the end)”. If she is still walking, and you don’t have to provide 24 hour care, it doesn’t sound as though she really is ‘close to the end’. Beatty’s comment about the ‘stopping point’ and also a ‘whole care plan for Grandma’ are perhaps what you should think about.

Dad is paying you $20 a day. If that’s the same for your mother and sister, care is costing $120 a week, or $500 a month. Dad says that Grandma “makes too much for Medicaid.” That's a lot more than $500. Where is the rest of her money going? At a minimum, she should be able to pay you and your sister a more realistic amount.

The ‘stopping point’ will certainly come, for you and your sister, and probably for all of you, once 24/7 care is needed. You and your sister can’t provide 2 days of 24 hour care while studying full time, and College and grades DO matter. You will be gone as soon as you can make ends meet. Dad needs a long term plan. Dad and the whole family need to know just how long Grandma is likely to live - many of our posters have a grandma living to 100.

Dad also needs to know how much care Grandma is likely to need in 6 months, or a year, or two years. A talk to the doctor and a care professional should help you all to make the plan. Dad has good points, including the fact that he is the major income earner, but it sounds as though he is flying by the seat of his pants here.

This will tear your family apart unless you all get some help. Dad needs to think more about how 'family is the most important'.
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MargaretMcKen Nov 2021
Thinking some more, something doesn't add up here. Do some research yourself - the Medicaid rules to start with. Either Dad is making guesses himself, or the money doesn't smell right! If you are making an important contribution in terms of underpaid labor, you should be entitled to the facts.
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I would like to pull apart the concept of *selfish*. Because I have found it gets thrown at people as a strong arm tactic to force them into submission. No-one wants to be thought of as selfish right?

But first, I see Dad's point - family must help family.. ok.

But I also see your point.

And there must be a stopping point.

For me, it was double incontinence in my home, car & when out.

For an acquaintance, it was his father (FTD) physically lashing out at his mother & pulling a knife.

For my Doctor it was mild dementia. She would not give up her long studied for career to be her mother's chauffeur & maid - nor would her mother wanted that if in her right mind.

So your Dad says has no stopping point? He is willing to throw you all under the bus & destroy your future chances - for what? For Grandma's care? Or because he will not make the hard decisions he needs to. Because he wants to look & feel like 'The Best Son'.

Who is the selfish one here??

Now calling HIM selfish is just going to get you a load of trouble. I would suggest he get some outside perspective: from GM's Doctor, an aged needs assessment, advice from a religious leader (if he has one). He may come to realise he is putting his mother's needs before his own wife & children.

It takes some men a very long time to get this, some never do.

Currently he is stuck in the fantasy of 'family only' will help. He needs to get over this.

Moving out into college dorm accommodation may well be the best solution for you. Then his care burden will increase & some reality may crack through his fantasy.
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Update:
I talked to my dad and he said:
+It would be selfish and irresponsible of me to push away my family
+If I have so many other responsibilities I should sacrifice some to make time
+I shouldn’t take the advice of friends and people online over family
+College and grades do not matter
+He has done his best to help her but she makes too much for Medicaid and a home is too expensive for him
+Blood doesn’t matter in my mom’s case, if you’re married you’re family
+I should be grateful to have a childhood much better than his
+To be a physician assistant in the future (my dream job), it would be good to get experience now
+She’s not doing well (close to the end) and family is the most important so I should take care of her
+My friends have it much harder than me so I should deal with it
+My mom took his side
Thank you all very much for the advice, but it looks like I’m stuck. Hopefully things will get better once I can move out and hopefully get a college dorm. Thank you again.
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gladimhere Nov 2021
Will, talk with your school counselor. They might have some ideas for you. And a facility is an option. Medicaid is an option. There are programs in place that help those that make "too much". Dad may not have been explored the options.

The Area Agency On Aging can help dad figure it all out.
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I'm so angry at your father for you.

At 18, you have opportunities you may never have again. You mention sports--even a partial scholarship would help. Academics or vocational, you need to be in school to accomplish that and right now is when people are most likely to help you!

Whatever "sacrifices" aren't equivalent. You were born in 2003? Your parents had choices, but you weren't born to be a slave.

Stop this, OP. This is serious financial abuse that could ruin your life. If you have to live with six roommates in a crap 2BR house, then do it while you're going to school and making something of yourself. Don't sacrifice yourself for someone who can't wipe their a.

If anything, that is your father's job, and if he doesn't want to do it, it is his money to enable someone that will come into the house and do that personally, as well as the disgusting cleanup.
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I’m so sorry you’re in this horrible position.

To me, it reads like ‘house rules: you live here, you help out.’ I may be wrong, but to me I can’t help but suspect that in over to vacate yourself from helping out, you move out.

If this is so, I know how hard it would be on you, working a job as well as going to college. Hard decisions lie in wait for you, I’m afraid.

In all of my years on this planet, there is one thing I know. “There is nothing good in this life that is gotten without sacrifice.” You want to be unburdened? It’s not going to come without sacrifice.

I’m sorry, and I wish life was easier for you. For all of us, really. But at 18, you still deserve to be young and have fun, and not caring for an elderly, incontinent grandmother.

Best of luck. I hope whichever sacrifice you make, makes you happy. You deserve to be happy.
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I agree with all others that your GM is not your responsibility. However, your dad could easily say you are no longer his responsibility yet perhaps he is still providing you with family discount on room and board, auto insurance, medical health care insurance, perhaps tuition etc. and you might be willing to overlook your “right” not to be a caregiver.
I think you know better than we do how far you should carry your protest if you need to protect your ability to live at home.
As an adult you will make many trade offs. It’s probably too soon to know if this is one you will look back on with appreciation. I know that’s hard to imagine now.
Does GM wear pull ups? Is she getting changed often enough? Is she alone for most of the time? It might be that she needs more time than your family has scheduled for her. You may have noticed that your GM is declining. It’s probably not what she envisioned for her old age to have her grands be cleaning her up. For what it’s worth, I appreciate that she has you as she isn’t able to help herself. I know it’s hard and I’m sure you will never forget this time. You seem to live a full life. That’s great. I’m happy for you. We are often asked to do things that aren’t our job. That in and of itself doesn’t change the fact that your GM needs cleaning up.
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PeggySue2020 Nov 2021
The 18 yo OP has already stated that she has been tasked with cleaning up fecal incontinence since she was a minor. She barely is an adult now, unlike anyone with a 97 yo mom.
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"Dad, I have cared for Grandma a very long time now but the time has come that her needs require more than I can give. I am an adult now & need to plan my future studies. No-one else can study for me but there are many other solutions for care for Grandma.

You will need to replace my help by (insert date) ie 2 weeks notice. It is not my responsibility to pay for this. The responsibility lays with Grandma's adult children. My help was a GIFT. But my gift must now cease.

I suggest it is time to reassess the whole care plan for Grandma. Her needs have grown & changed, so the care plan must grow & change too. (Dementia is a degenerative disease - will continue to get worse).

The new plan should suit EVERYONE in the plan. Not just Grandma. And also not just YOU" (meaning Dad)
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Reply got duplicated.. never mind.

I did want to ask - what's Dad's temper like?

If he is a wild one, take care! Saying NO to a parent is a healthy & normal part of growing up but if there is any danger in doing so.. pls speak up & act with caution.
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Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope.
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Your father's mother is his responsibility, not yours. Your grandmother needs to be in a facility - the fact that "she won't go" is not really the basis for deciding that. Unfortunately, the women taking care of grandmother are only enabling a bad situation. She is dad's mom and his responsibility.
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Your grandmother is not your responsibility. I don’t think your dad should expect or require you to care for her.
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Absolutely, irrevocably, 110% NOT your responsibilty.

Dont let anyone use the old ''in our culture the women care for elderly relatives'' BS either.

It sounds like youre quite intelligent and have a great life ahead of you. Don't let it get derailed by this.
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