My name is Joshua. I'm 20. I work part-time and live with parents. I found this site by chance and signed up to ask this: is it elder abuse to NOT provide the elder with a cellphone ? Now currently, he does have one, but he can only call 911 in case of emergency. But that's not good enough for the elder, he wanted me to buy a brand new phone. I said no. Had the cops called on me about 5 times. Out of two visits, I've been threatened with elder abuse if I don't provide the elder a phone with access besides the 911 number. Are the cops in the right? Because I'm tired of being threatened by both them AND the elder about this phone business. I'm very, very tired.
And yes, there are two sides to the same story. I am just afraid those who takes my dad's side will only cause more trouble than there already is. They would want to hear me and my mom's side because they've already decided what they view us: the wrong ones.
It is not like I care what they think, I am scared the trouble they may cause.
I am not being, "Mean and hateful," as my Dad had pointed out. I am just being cautious, and so is my mom. I assume we don't have that right?
Then we really are going to get into some forms in trouble. I fear that, too, which is the WHOLE reason I found this site by accident-quail my fear a little by talking about my problem, NOT to talk crap about my Dad.
But it's clear what I have to do, whenever if my mom agrees or not. The question is now....
….when is the best time? I already know the answer to half of that inquire: not much.
Also, has an update to those new to my problem, he has a cell phone, but the device only allows someone to call 911, which my dad had done five time in less than a week to try and get me and mom in trouble. Two of those cops out of the five that came were cool with what we've given them. So....
And hey, me and mom are not sitting around. We work. Me in the mornings, and mom starts in the evening. So, he is NOT home alone, only when mom picks me up from work.
We have no help, my dad is the aggressor, and we have the right to protect ourselves. And I know elders have rights and they are well defended. But I've already said what's going to happen. My dad says he's ready to leave. The HOUR me and/or my mom finalize a residence for him, I'm going straight to Target.
And P.S, while I'm not LEGALLY his care-taker, my mom is, BUT I still help out whenever I can, because my mom gets tired, she is 57 years old, and yet, works 8 hours at retail.
If I was a cop and you played that little blerp to me, I would ask you if that was his response to you and mom refusing to get him a phone.
He is completely bed ridden, how would you feel if you only had interactions with 2 people that obviously find you burdensome?
Did it ever dawn on you that you are here on AC doing the exact same thing to him that you say he will do to you? Talking crap without hearing both sides of the story.
You are very young and there is so much that it is difficult for you to understand, we have all been in your shoes. You can not begin to have any reality with getting older and loosing your independence. That must suck air.
No matter what has transpired, he is your dad and you have been warned and threatened with charges. Bite the bullet and get him a phone. You might find he is easier to deal with. As far as what his friends think, who cares. They are his friends of course they are going to side with him. That's what friends do.
Even though it has been really hard, please try to have some compassion for his life. Kindness towards him can help defuse some of the animosity that you feel towards him. Try it, can't hurt.
I am sure you know that it takes two to have an argument or fight. If you do your best and keep silent when he is grumping or yelling, it is just that, him grumbling and yelling. No fight, no argument.
I can tell you that law enforcement will almost always be an advocate for the underdog in these domestic cases. He is vulnerable and has no one. You and mom should think about the repercussions of keeping him isolated and fighting with him all the time. It is easier to be quiet then get out of jail. Just my opinion.
The fact that your dad will throw you and mom under the bus is NOT a reason to deny him a phone. You are isolating him. This WILL be seen as elder abuse.
So, he calls friends and family and accuses you of nonsensical things?
Big deal. Does he have dementia? Does he have a mental illness?
Then get him evaluated for that.
And another thing, the reason why me and my mom are so worried he'll cause trouble by having a cell phone(even a landline) is because his "friends" have not seen his ugly side. To them, he's a handicapped gentlemen, and that we are the 'bullies' and the 'wrong one.' He's already got to my sisters and a few others(possibly our landlord, too) against us. Well, I have an audio recording of him cursing me out so if they ever try and confront me or my mom and try to tell us off, I'll play it.
"F you, you piece of sh!t," is one of the things on the audio recording. I have my evidence. It's not much buuuuuut, better than nothing when I point out that HE is the aggressor, handicapped or not, to whomever accuses me and my mom of being the 'wrong ones.'
Recently, he has been threating to 'get' my mom, as my dad put it, on neglect. So, as of yesterday, I've been taking pics of the food I feed him and logging it into a little notebook along with every little thing I do for hi., including the time and the date. Like this morning, I emptied his bucket of urine, shortly after another argument between us.
So, your thoughts...?
And keep in mind, you may have evidence, but of what, exactly? He is a nasty man, but that is not illegal, elder abuse is. Keep in mind that the law is not necessarily fair.
Your mom should talk with his doctor and tell the doctor about his abuse, and get an order to admit him to a long term care facility. You don't say (and may not know) what his insurance is, but your mom can call the local Medicaid office to see if he is eligible, or if he is already on Medicaid ask the doctor to recommend a facility. This shouldn't be your burden to carry alone, and your mom will have to make these calls.
Stay the good young man that you are and keep us updated. You have friends on this site and we want to be here to help.
Please don't think of just walking away, as that will be considered as abuse, even if the thought of it sounds good. As difficult as he is, try to put your self in his place and imagine what life would be like. He's probably terrified. Even though this doesn't excuse his nastiness, it might help you cope with it a little better.
You are 20 years old. You live with your mother and your disabled father in very limited accommodation, if you don't mind my saying so. I am sure that your support is invaluable to your mother, and I am also sure that the hours you put in are important to your Dad's care.
But this is *crazy*!!! What the heck? How come you have been led to be actually anxious that you have such a clear responsibility towards your father that you could be at risk of neglect charges if you don't meet required care standards?
How long has your father needed this care, and how long have you been sharing the burden with your mother?
It's not that there's anything wrong with helping your parents, of course not. But there is something terribly wrong with the obligations you seem to have been handed like this.
Basically - who passed you the buck? And what support do you all three get from outside the family?
Well, my parents never married. So, common-law would be the right term, I guess. So, in short, we have no help and no resources.
But I am looking to change that and I've been doing lots of online research on both information and resources with elderly/dishabilles care and such.
The reason I have too is because my mom is in her late 50s, in other words she's not computer savvy.
Has Dad always been depressed and been abusive? If this is the case there is little chance he will change now especially since MS is a progressive disease.
If he had not picked on needing an expensive cell phone as something to demand it would have been something else.
Of course he does not need it. He can perfectly well communicate with a simple flip phone if he wants to talk to people.
I would have thought a cheap laptop would have suited his needs better.
It does not matter who paid for the original phone, you can pick them up for a few $s and reload the minutes. I use a well advertised senior plan than costs me total $21 a month with unlimited calls.
Is Dad calling you and/or Mom at work and causing problems? I am not quite sure what the issue is. You can certainly turn off your phones when you are working.
Did one of you just get an expensive I phone and he feels entitled too? Well he is if that is the case he has income comming into the house too.
I totally understand that the two of you have had enough of this abuse and just want to walk away but you do have responsibility to someone who is totally unable to care for themselves.
Clearly you are doing the best you can and he is not making it easier being totally helpless in bed . I know you have to work but it is definitely not safe to leave a helpless person of any age alone for any length of time. What happens if there is a fire.
Don't delay get in touch with any social service that could possibly help. His Dr. Eldercare in your county, Catholic Charities, the VA if he was a veteran anyone you can think of. If they can't help they may know who can. Get on the Internetand look for any MS resources. This is going to take work to get your Dad into a situation where he will be properly looked after.
Just moving out is not an option. Keep that in mind.
Point is, my Dad is never home alone. The only time he's alone is when my mom drives me to work or to my doctor, because I don't have a driver's license as of yet. With the latter, he would only be alone for an hour plus some minutes. And we always tell him when we go out.
And Josh, I don't think you can claim that your father is not at risk of isolation because he has a t.v. to watch.
And lastly, the last thing I want, no matter what happens, is to be charged with some sort of elder neglect, because even though I am not legally his care-provider, I still live with him, so I still think I would be at risk if the worst-case scenario ever occurs.
So, I'll work with my mom on either giving him a landline, a flip phone, or one of those phone where you can program it so the phone can only dial certain numbers, if they still exist.
You call this man Dad. Is he your father or Grandfather. Has his illness effected his ability to make informed decisions? Does Mom have POA?
Is he living with u or him with you?
I would start with Office of Aging. Approach the situation that with you both working you are not able to give or afford the care he needs.
I'm really sorry to read of your and your family's situation.
Does it have to be like this? Is "either he goes or we go" really the only option left?
I'm just wondering if you or your mother are in touch with any MS support groups, I suppose. Did you get in touch with the social workers, what's going on there?
Anyway, it's been quiet and peaceful at the home for the last few days since I've posted this; been five days since the last police visit. But Dad is still expecting a 'good' phone. "A smartphone," he says. I ignore him in regards to the phone stuff and let him say and think whatever he wants, because as long as he's not threatening, harassing, or bringing the cops over here I'm actually really, really happy. And a quick note, in regards to the possibility of 'isolating' him, he does have a t.v which he watches all day, everyday even BEFORE this whole phone business started; he loves his sport channels. So, he does have some form of entertainment. I plan to lend him one of my books-I like to read-so he can have more enjoyments to his days, I guess.
Lastly, what we(me and mom)plan on doing.
Two things: either we get him out somehow or we are leaving. If we leave, we'll quickly alert social services so they can send someone else to take care of him, so we won't be charged with abandonment of an elder.
I strongly prefer if we can get him out somehow and into a nursing home; moving would be pain. It's quiet now, but sooner or later, my dad is going to start in again.
Me and mom are trying to get in touch with social workers so we can see if they can do anything for us or help us out in finding my dad a home, me and my mom have sh*t incomes, after all, just enough to eat, pay bills, and internet.
If no one can get him out for us, then we are definitely moving and we are getting ready just incase we cannot get him out; I am even bringing hom boxes from my workplace for our stuff already. We are done with the verbal abuse, and to be rather honest, we are done taking care of him. I, for one, am, quiet. But in the meantime, we watch his hygiene, he gets fed, and we make sure he doesn't fall off the bed, etc, etc, etc,etc,etc.
So......I suppose that's it. Again, thank you all for the advice. It was all, quite helpful. Those policemen spooked me, because I do not want anything on my record. Who does?
And my dad is not demented, he's just stubborn and a fighter. Oh, boy! He is a fighter! He may be bed-bound, but that mouth of his.....oooohhhhhhhh boy....
In Arizona repeated calls to 911 for no emergency reason can get you charged with wasting public resources and it is pretty serious.
If your dad is abusive, and threatening you and mom because he didn't get his way, is abuse. May be time to get him placed in a facility.
You are a good man to be helping your mom with this difficult situation. My hats off to you.
Just be sure and try to not give him all of your young life, many people feel entitled to be the center of the universe at everyone's expense, encourage your mom to get him help or placement. No one deserves to live with abuse. Between her and you, you can change this situation and not have to deal with a tyrant.
Let us know what you get figured out.
Hugs 2 u and mom for not throwing him to the curb.
Cover your own behind by getting him the burner phone. Then just sit back while the police wear a path to your door.
I live in California, and your situation may be seen as preventing your father from having the ability to communicate with others at his own will. This would be considered socially isolating your father and yes, this is seen as a form of elder abuse.
If it were me, I'd make the situation clear to the cops, 911, etc. and tell them to control Dad. Good luck there... Seems there is really no clear path to follow legally to deal with this. So I'd make it clear that he had not been declared incompetent, had rights, and therefore they should deal direct with him, and leave me out of it, since I have in fact no enforcement power. If it were a question of false accusations I would act to protect myself - talk to a lawyer, Area Agency on Aging or similar and all else failing, finally separate myself from Dad so that no accusations could be made. Accusations are very serious business. I don't think the family is trying to isolate Dad, just protect him from himself.
Is Josh the Elder’s Caregiver? If he is, why is a 20 year old caregiving and financially responsible for the Elder?
Am I missing something here?
I'm sure you are thinking, "Might as well that that new cell phone," but as you've guessed earlier, there is more to the story.
The only reason he has that one phone that only calls 911 is because a nicer cop had told us that was good enough, least he had something in case of an emergency. I'm burned out, if I miss anything, feel free to let me know and I'll gladly clarify.
And why why are you responsible for buying anyone’s phone!?
Really, need more info why he can't have a cell phone.