Is it alright to have a first meeting with siblings about our Mom, without all their spouses?

Maybe completely off the subject, but if you mom is tattling/trashtalking/making stuff up about her care, it may be time to say "mom, sorry, this isn't working out anymore; you have two choices. Live with one of the brothers or go to a facility, where we can all visit and tend your needs".


You sound SO burned out; you will NOT get your brothers (or SIL's) to understand how much you are doing, or that mom, with dementia, is mis-representing what is going on.

Please stop killing yourself and feeling resentful.

I also attempted a "sibs only' meeting about mother's care 3 years ago. I specifically asked for no spouses and YYB specifically brought his. Now I understand their marriage dynamic, they are joined at the hip and neither says or does ANYTHING that other doesn't first approve. Also this SIL has mother living in her house, so I am sure she felt entitled.

EPIC FAIL.

Right out of the gate, I started the meeting, and we were going to first each take 5 minutes voice our concerns. YYB jumped into and onto whomever was speaking and yelled at us. Then he stood up and 'took the floor' so to speak and the rest is one of those family historical moments when you realize you're never going to all get along, never.

Nothing changed. Mother did not receive and never will receive the kind of quality care she NEEDS in her home. Brother initially banned us all from even seeing her, and my YB who has POA and all the legal power, just sat there. Doesn't DO conflict.

Our family walked away, completely fractured. My YYB does not speak to me, in fact, Mother asked me if I enjoyed my gift from her and I said I had not received one. I told her if she gave it to YYB to deliver, I would not be getting it. She does not see the fracture and for that, I am glad.

I was fabulously depressed over this for quite some time....but I have given up. My other sibs are not real 'hands on' people, unless asked, and Mother doesn't see that she needs.

She and YYB have a very sick intertwined relationship and it's really just sad.

Since you were planning to set things up and THEN include the inlaws--I think that is smart. I'm sorry it went badly. My other sibs' spouses were not the least interested in mom's care and it was just this one SIL.

I did this mtg with a prayer in my heart that we could all come to terms on getting mother in home care she needed ( and needs far more, now) and it failed so badly.

BTW--I have a MIL who is in the last stages of her life and I am not included or asked to be any part of her care, nor is my input wanted or asked for. I would NEVER attend a mtg where her kids try to hash out what to 'do' with her.

Rebecca, I'm sorry you are going through this. I can tell your mom's behavior (saying untrue things to your brothers about you) and her increasing care needs are depressing you and burning you out. You even said yourself you are feeling a sense of burn out. Girl I get it! The depression that can set in with this can be overwhelming. I've been there and in my duress I would react emotionally and come away worse than I was before.

I see that happening here. You wanted some attention from your brothers to help you deal with mom. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I would feel the same way! I'm sure you never intended to hurt your SIL's feelings, but that was unfortunately the take away. And unfortunately it's a valid take away as they are the spouses of your brother. Next time include them, it's not worth the drama not to and their main concern is probably fear that they are going to get volunteered for something they don't want to do.

At this point I think it would be a good idea to just be honest with all of them. Tell them you are depressed and burned out, and why. These people (siblings and spouses) care about you, it's best to let them know you are struggling and then accept whatever help they can give you. The SILs will likely stop being angry when they see that you are actually hurting pretty badly.

The other thing is to work on your own solutions to the depression and burnout. Therapy helped me. Coming here and reaching out really helped me. A little self care can go a long way to help your mental health.

Eventually you will have to figure out what your role will be with your mother going forward, and it's much better to do that when your not crippled with depression.

Good luck and know that you are not alone. Come back often and let us know how things are going.

Well, it would not bother me in the least, not my circus, not my monkeys. I have found that many men are very weak when it comes to their parents especially their mothers, their idea of caring is to let the women do it, like their wives, sisters, and so on.

My husband tried to pull that on me...nope, this is your problem not mine, I already had enough dealing with my family...pass.

So with that said, in order to get some support for you, I would include them. A meeting needs to be structured, so that is remains on a business level, not an emotional one. If you calling the meeting, get organized and stick to your outline, otherwise it will become a complete fiasco.

Rebecca, I understood the stress of being the one on the scene. And your driving to your parents once a week could quickly need to be more than once a week. Are you and your brothers all equidistant from your parents? How is it that you became the one who does the caregiving?

I was the local sib - 3 brothers out of state. My mother didn't appreciate what I did for her. She expected me to be at her beck and call because she gave me her car (blue book value). She did not like when I set down strict boundaries about when I would be her driver. She insisted on going everywhere with me -- it would have been so much easier if she'd have let me do her shopping for her when I did mine. I was never paid for gas, even.

And everything took HOURS...but my time wasn't worth anything, as she told me. Of course she had no idea how long everything took. Yet she would defend the brother who didn't come for nearly two years as being too "busy."

I sent my brothers an email every time I did something for her or took her anywhere, and made sure to include how much time it took. I'm not sure they even read the emails, but the case could never be made that they had no idea of what I was going through.

Rebecca, how far away from your mother do your brothers live? It sounds like your mother's need for care is increasing.

Do you have her POA and health care POA?

Ok, my take here. You know if anything is going to get done, it will probably fall on the wives to do it,, even visiting your mom more often. I speak from experience as "a wife". My hubs would not visit his mom in MC unless I planned it, insisted on it, and drug him there. My Fil lives with BIL and Wife. BIL has been retired for years and SIL just retired this year. She would come home from work and hide out in her bedroom... leaving BIL to deal with dad.. which he did not ..just gave him dinner and retreated as well. Now that SIL is retired she is better at interacting with FIL. Maybe not as stressed? When MIL was being placed in MC, I went to all the meetings and the ones AT the MC once she arrived. I am the only one with medical experience, and I worked PT at a MC/NH, so my input was needed, although maybe not always appreciated.. LOL And my dad was in a MC. So it goes to show you may not know how much they may help, and perhaps they have some information you may need. And you will need their support on this journey

Did you ask your siblings before the fact if they would like their spouses to be present ?

Can you have a do over? Seek a second chance?

I believe that the spouses should be there; I would limit it to the spouses, and not grown children. Truly, in a marriage, generally and under best circumstances "we are one".
I DO understand you wish to make it something with the brothers; I agree that the women tend to take over "the chat" often and that "men allow that and are more or less used to it; I am certain that isn't ALWAYS the case, but it is my experience in any meetings for 77 years, and often working with families in those meetings.
NOW, we get down to the nitty gritty. What is it you expect out of these meetings? What are they FOR? I think that you indicate you are the hands on-live in caregiver? And it sounds as though you do not wish to be any longer. Perhaps this is all getting tangled in discussion and semantics. You may have a plan to ask for more support. Almost certainly you know that hands on support would be coming often enough from the women, the spouses? If it comes at all. I think perhaps this is not going to "work" but I can't know until I know what it is you want.
IF in fact, hands on daily caregiving is now something you do not wish to do, I think that is the issue, and I think it should be spoken right out, made crystal clear, gently done; just to say that you cannot any longer handle it. Does ANYONE, spouse or bro, have any suggestions that might help, or are you looking now at placement care. If you are, then you are down to who has the POA, who wishes to participate without a lot of argument in chosing the care and etc.
You may be looking at a situation where you are not going to see a lot of support or caring or help with ANYTHING, and you will need to make your own decisions, making it clear to the family as you go along what those decisions are and why you are making them. This includes of course, your Mom, if she is able to understand and participate, even minimally.

Now see, I understand where she is coming from. When Mom and Dad had their 50th, I planned it. I called my one brother and asked him if he was willing to share in the cost. He said yes. I got a call from his wife later asking me why I didn't ask her that question when she answered the phone. I said, because its my brothers parents. He is a big boy, if he felt he needed to discuss it with her, he could have done that and called me back. In the 20yrs they had been married, she never went out of her way for my parents or my brothers siblings and their children. It was always her family. The other SIL I get along with but she has a tendency to take over and my other brother allows her.

I too may have asked just her children be present. Mom may not have appreciated the DILs knowing her business. Depends on the relationship she has with them. Hey, she may not have wanted her own sons to know.

Men tend to allow the females to do their thing. I can see why u wanted their undivided attention. If money or care was brought up, they are big boys all they had to say was "I need to run this by my wife". Really, if the SILs have not gone out of their way by now, will they? Really, its the son's responsibility to help with Moms care. We have to get away from "its a women's job". No, I don't expect them to bathe or toilet Mom but they can come get her for the day, Take her to dinner or lunch or shopping.

I have been there and I didn't apologize. When my SIL took over helping Mom with Dads funeral flowers I said nothing until it got to the grandsons flowers. I asked to see the catalog because my daughter asked me to pick something out in her place. My SIL was mad the rest of the day. I am the oldest, the only daughter and the one who stayed in the same town. And my SIL overlooked that. She got happy. And we r still close.

You do what u need to do to mend fences. Tell them u needed your brothers undivided attention. If they can't understand that, then oh well.

Just chiming in to support the suggestion of apologizing to the SILs. I differ in opinion about meetings: I vote for everyone all at once, with an agenda so that everyone knows the goal of the meeting and the conversation stays on track. Don't try to solve every issue in one meeting. No wasted time. More like brainstorming. It would exhaust me to call everyone individually (but yes to doing this to apologize).

I took up the care cause for my MIL since she had sons and my 2 other SILs were not very involved. Having the agenda was truly helpful. The more people, the more complicated it can be but make sure everyone knows one of the goals is to keep things streamlined and have people participate in ways in which they are comfortable. My out-of-state BIL was happy to contribute financially because he couldn't do anything personally. Also, come to meetings with info researched, accurate info, price sourced, options, etc. People will really appreciate this and takes away excuses for not helping. Never make a spending decision and then ask for money after the fact.

Also I recommend sending out a group email whenever you do things for your mom that everyone should know about. This keeps everyone in the loop with the same info; it lets family know how much work goes into the care; it gives family the opportunity to offer help without you having to ask. They can never say, "I didn't know..."

For those who just don't really want to help...you can't make them. That's their choice, they are not obligated, they may have good reasons, and you will need to just walk away from that or resentment will build and eat up your emotional reserves. Good luck!

"I really just wanted it to be with my brothers only for our first meeting." If all you wanted to get out of that first meeting was to hear your brother's opinions that could have been achieved by calling each of them individually and asking frankly: "What do you think we need to do about mom?"

I suspect that you are not bothered by your husband having meetings about his mom without you because you have your hands full with your own mother.

Understand that your brothers are married and they make decisions jointly with their wives. The choices made for your mother will affect everyone - you, your spouse, your brothers' spouses, kids, etc. Caregiving must work for everyone involved. If you want your brothers involved, it behooves you to include their wives.

I agree that you have alienated allies. Swallow your pride, call each of your SILs to apologize, and then ask them individually what they think about your mother's declining health. Consider inviting their wives for coffee and cake to your home. The sooner you make peace with your SILs the sooner you will have your brothers' support. If their wives aren't onboard, your brothers won't be either.

😡

Rebecca, I think you've put your finger on it. The point about excluding SILs from the *initial* meeting is not that their input isn't valued; it's that their being there will pretty much guarantee that mother's actual children, your brothers, will gaze out of the window while the women talk about women's work, and still be permitted to think they've done their bit. How to get them to involve themselves?

If I had the answer I would share it. I tried, I failed. One SIL very much acted as my brother's deputy and my efforts to explain that you cannot deputise being your mother's favourite child led only to damaging conflict and did nothing to increase his participation. The other was much easier and nicer to deal with, but then again neither she nor brother were around to speak of.

Do your SILs resent time their husbands give to your mother? Are they being protective of their husbands, as they see it?

It might honestly be simpler to work round the lot of them. What sort of thing would you hope they'd take on?

Rebecca, I think you may have made a tactical misstep in excluding the SILs. You’re married, so you probably discuss your Moms caregiving with your husband? Your profile says you visit her once a week...you probably come back and discuss her condition with him? He may give you advice or you agree on visits or money spent on her? So to exclude the SILs from plans which may include caregiving duties or money that they may need to contribute...the brothers probably wouldn’t make any decisions without their wives, and would go home and talk to them anyway. You say that they don’t do much anyway, but that’s their choice. If my husband committed to something in a meeting to which I wasn’t invited, there would be problems if I don’t agree with it. Their attitudes may not have changed at this meeting, but at least the cards would be on the table. So in my humble option, I would try to backtrack, apologize for the faux pas, make amends, and try to regroup with the entire bunch.

There have been numerous posts here about the pros and cons of including spouses in care plans.

I am not married, so I do not have a spouse to include, but I would never exclude my sil from a discussion about my parents' care needs. When my step dad was dying she was an incredible support and help.

You have in the past asked your sils to help with Mum, then excluded them from the meeting where you were discussing Mum's care. That would upset me too. You expect me to step up and help with caregiving, but not have a say in what that care giving may entail.

Or do you expect your brothers to decide what roles their wives will play?

You say you are burning out, yet you are cutting off your nose to spite your face by not including your strongest allies in the discussions. You have hurt your favourite SIL, perhaps permanently damaged that relationship.

How do you reconcile that you want help, but not from your sils?

Who cares is Mum talks about you to your siblings when you are not there? Why is that a problem?

You appear to want to control everything, from who has a say in Mum's care, who provides it, to who Mum talks to and everything in between.

You have 8 potential allies, 4 brothers and 4 sisters in law. 8 people who can help with Mum in some manner. Yes, this also means 8 differing opinions on how Mum's care should be provided, but so many here are having to provide care to their parents with no help at all.

I understand being the oldest and feeling the weight of everything on your shoulders, but you have 8 people who can take some of the burden off you if you are willing to give up some of the control.

Some people want to be included because if there will be monetary issues, that may be a family decision.

If you are burning out, you may have to let others help.