If a person is making self-destructive decisions, when and how do you intervene?

Welcome to the site!

It’s a difficult issue. Suggestions could include:

1) Getting him to a doctor’s appointment, with prior information to the doctor about the issues. Sometimes people will listen to ‘a professional’ though not to a family member.

2) Contact whoever is hiring him. ‘The heavy construction industry’ is not usually a one-person job. A Corporate employer deserves to know the risks, because there are liability issues for them. Getting the sack a couple of times might make him realise that he is simply too old to be doing that job.

3) See an advisor about financial planning, preferably with him but even on your own. You both need a clear picture about finances for the future, and it might make him less anxious about the need to earn more.

4) Stop supporting this behavior. Don’t rush to get him out of the car, fuss over him, make him rest and all the other ways you probably show your concerns. This behavior isn’t sensible, and it’s just possible that he loves the fuss and the ‘martyr’ feeling. Difficult though it is, stop providing it.

I hope you get other good suggestions, but this might be a start. Yours, Margaret

Here's the thing: should he kill or maim himself while driving, he very well may take others with him. Everyone else on the road should not have to pay the price for his refusal to accept reality. On one hand, he does sound like a good man with good intentions, but sometimes that's just not enough. His neurological condition suggests that he may have some dementia going on that is interfering with his reasoning. Probably add into that the fear of losing a major part of himself if he stops working. Would he adjust his ways if you could get him in for testing? Would a diagnosis make any difference? I'm so sorry for what you're going through. It sounds like **** for you and for him.

My first thought is your DH is lacking insight into his health concerns.

My next thought (like Margaret) is he prioritising earning & providing over his health, safety & common sense.

Third, that he just loves to work. It is what he does. His identity, self-image is tied to it. He may get a lot socially from work too, hanging out with the guys.

Maybe, at a calm time, over a relaxing dinner.. ask him WHY he wants to keep working?

If money, see what can be done. Get some financial advice. He may be surprised to find he can retire after all!

If it is his love of working, or staying social with other guys, being part of a team, I would encourage him to join a men's social group instead. Check out elder activities in your area. (Do *Men's Sheds* exist where you live? Sheds of older guys busy tinkering with tools 😁)

Or definately take a lighter job, closer to home, for shorter hours - even if not well paid.

Or even volunteer at the local hardware store to direct customers. Local, tools, social, & helpful.

Find out his WHY & try to find a safer substitute.

I'm afraid he's going to have to get seriously hurt before your husband stops working these jobs, to be honest with you. If he's in such horrible health, physically exhausted, with bandages all over his arms having near-misses in the car left and right and is STILL driven to do hard labor, its going to literally take an act of God or a bad accident to stop him. You can't convince him either, so something else will be necessary. Start playing the lottery. Maybe if you get lucky and win some money, he will no longer feel compelled to earn money in this fashion to provide for you. Maybe suggest you downsize your home and save money that way?

What a terrible situation for both of you. I can't imagine him feeling the need to push his body to THIS degree for money. At 77, he's supposed to be retired and relaxing which is becoming more and more impossible for us on a daily basis. What a sad statement that truly is. Wishing you the best of luck with a difficult situation.

Your hubs is a man in deep denial. Are your family finances so thin that he feels compelled to continue to work? If so, this would be important info to provide because it changes what suggestions are given to you. I have a very stubborn mother who is often in denial about being 93 and has unreasonable expectations about her health, causing her to want to want me to run her to doctors all the time, which I've stopped doing because that's a boundary for me. I'm 63 and I still work running our business. I have had to sit her down and look her in the eye and ask: "Do you think you'll live forever?" Then wait for her give me a serious answer, because a rational person will say "no". Then once the conversation is centered around reality, procede to discuss what we need to in order to move forward and make wise and productive decisions. If you can't get him to see his doctor, search online for the average lifespan of someone with COPD -- who is NOT taking care of their health -- and what quality of life awaits them. You can also research stats about when seniors fall and break a bone or cut themselves and develop infections, even sepsis. You can probably find good info at Mayocliniconline.com, since they are reputable and people can't argue against their data. But then offset this info with how he can ensure a better quality of life, as it may not be "too late". Plan a discussion with him, don't allow him to leave or dismiss it without getting answers. You can script out what you wish to say. - I greatly love and appreciate your sense of responsibility to provide but our financial planner says we are in a good position for you to retire tomorrow. - You continuing to work endangers our retirement years, which are shortened and impacted by your COPD and by daily putting yourself (and maybe others) into dangerous situations. It is only a matter of time before you have an accident at the job site and then go directly into a facility because I may not be able to care for you completely myself. And what kind of retirement is that? Not the one I had imagined for us. No one goes to their deathbed and says, "I wished I'd spent more time working and less time with my family." No. One. - If he has not created a PoA, Advance Healthcare Directive, and Will he MUST do this asap. You will also need to lead the way and create one, too. Go together to the attorney. - You can talk through the cold realities of what happens if he is disabled from an injury or health event tomorrow: everything in both your worlds changes completely and becomes a stressful crisis. With COPD his body's ability to recover from anything is compromised (not to mention covid!) and will take much longer. Your hubs throwing himself into work is a way of distracting himself from his failing health and mortality, but it also gives himself a sense of purpose. He can't imagine "who he is" aside from "provider". Your husband would be invaluable at any given church (like mine) that needs experienced, able-bodied people to help maintain and manage their buildings and grounds, for example. You could give him an ultimatum if he doesn't retire, but never make a threat you're not willing to carry out. FYI I work with a women who was my employee for many years and she has COPD. I am familiar with her realities. Also, my eldest son has a masonry company so I know how had the work is -- and dangerous. Is your hubs a contracted worker? Would he even have Workers Comp or Disability if something happened to him. Is he paid in cash? I cannot imagine who would hire a 77-yr old in his condition because he is a liability that no legit employer would want on the site, as he may be endangering his co-workers as well. He's had close calls driving? Does he care that he can injure/kill others? My uncle went through a red light and caused the death of his own wife and dog. Fortunately his victims in the other car were not seriously injured. Don't enable him by driving him to work.

He's a huge insurance liability on the jobs he's doing. Who's hiring him at 77 years old?

Maybe he could take in some work at home. My dad used to buy antique lamps at estate sales, rewire them, then sell them to antique stores for a tidy profit. He didn't need to support the family on that money, thank goodness, but he loved being busy.

Some people are 'lost' when they stop working. If he doesn't have hobbies or other activities that he likes, it's not only a loss of status not to be working and earning money, but also there is nothing for him to do. He may not be motivated to look for hobbies that interest him. It does seem like he is overextending himself. That's hard work even for a healthy younger man. The close calls with driving could harm others, and it does not seem to be responsible for him to be driving. He's lucky he hasn't hurt himself more seriously with his falls. Can you talk to his doctor about this, and try to get an official medial opinion? Does he have skills to be a handyman, or something that he could do as his own business close to home, and on his own schedule? Maybe if you offer this as an alternative and help him find customers, he might accept this. The Small Business Administration (www.sba.gov) has mentors and courses that can help him learn how to find customers. I've seen handyman ads on social media.

WorriedSick73: Quite possibly, your husband's mental capacity is diminished. What he thinks he can accomplish is actually nothing to be "proud" of. His health history is staggering. To earn a living is one thing; to put yourself AND OTHERS, who are on the roadway while he is barely operating a motor vehicle, is putting yourself in peril. Perhaps he needs to see his physician posthaste for a cognitive evaluation.

Does your total monthly expenses exceed your combined Social Security incomes? If not, what can you eliminate from your budget to do so? Your husband may insist on working to prove to himself he can, regardless of his failing health, to not dwell on it. Have you considered his applying for social security disability? As for his "close calls" going to work, that could at some point involve someone else getting injured with him responsible. Consider having his doctor or other trusted friend reason with him.

Dear Worried,
If you are caregiving for a friend in your home, is that at your expense, or is it supplementing your income? If it is supplementing your incomes, is that at the going rates, and can it be increased? What about you, wearing yourself out?
Maybe a change is in order for everyone?

Your husband is 77, and from what you wrote, he needs to retire.
He is a liability to the contractor who hires him.

You ask, when, and how do you intervene.

There are ways if you cannot reason with him and he is a danger to himself and others. It is by tough love, and you may not like to do it. But no one wants their man to die working themselves to death.

1) Stop enabling him to go to work in every way possible. Don't make it obvious. If he cannot get out of the car, call 911 for an assist. Document, have him evaluated or transported to the ER when needed. Get his doctor on board with a viable plan.
2) If he needs to be licensed to work, contact the licensing board anonymously with a letter from his doctor.
3) Have someone else, or you, inform the jobsite supervisor or contractor of his condition and that he is a liability. (maybe after your husband goes home, you are there). Sad. They can order a physical to determine if he is able to work.
4) Encourage him to become self-employed and work as a handyman in your neighborhood, small jobs.

When?
Hoping it is not already too late.

Encourage him to semi-retire, and support that by severely and immediately decreasing the budget and spending.