I found out my grandmother is paying my aunt $6000 a month for her to care for her. Is this legal?

The key sentence for me is where you (grandchildren, I assume) attempted to talk with your grandmother about going into AL and getting financial assistance as a veteran. This might have preserved more inheritance, but was obviously not how your grandmother chose to spend her remaining years. She's made the decision to stay home, your aunt is providing 24/7 good care and receiving payment for putting her life on hold doing darn hard work. Living into one's 80's and 90's is expensive - home care runs $20 hr., my mom's NH costs $7K/month for a semi private room.

I have a cousin who moved in with her dad when her mom passed 15 years ago. Her sibling is off doing his thing, but has noted that living with her dad, she is able to afford a good school for her son. She's not living rent free - she's paid and paid in sweat equity and loss of her own life.

This arrangement seems to be working for your grandmother and your aunt (her caregiver). We read too many posts on the forum from grandchildren who are trying to do 24/7 care, and still get their own lives started. In your family, the elders are taking care of your grandma, and you are able to just visit and love her.

CM raised a good point, the $6K to Auntie plus all her other normal expenses - food, taxes, utilities, outside caregivers plus sundries adds up to a much higher sum. Fair payment amounts for a family caregiver have been debated on the forum before and range from nothing (how dare you, your parents raised you after all) all the way up to full compensation for lost wages and lessened future pensions. I do understand the unfairness felt by the OP's branch of the family when they seem to be getting the shaft while the others will be tucking away the family fortune, but unfortunately I can't offer any amicable solutions. Spending all grandmother's money by paying outsiders rather than family will just leave everyone's pockets empty, that may be fairer but isn't necessarily a smarter solution.

Your aunt is not sneaking the money. She has someone’s permission to make that amount. That’s only around $9 per hour. Not really a lot of money, especially when one is on the job 24/7. It’s only illegal if she’s stealing/not paying taxes or neglecting your Grandmother.

My mom is spending more than that on 24\7 caregivers in her home. She was told what she’d have to pay because she had no idea what a fair wage was in 2016. It’s what she wants to do because she hates Nursing homes. There are records kept because Medicaid will eventually be applied for and she will have no choice but enter a NH.

I just read Rainmom's post. Grandchildren are not entitled to grands money. It all depends on how the will is worded. It could say "I am leaving my estate to my 3 children. If before my death one or more of my children passes, then my estate goes to the surviving child/children. No spouses or grandchildren get anything. Then there is a trickle down effect. There are 3 children and one dies. The one who passes his share goes to his children.

The POA's responsibility is to carry out what is best for grandma, without family discussion, and without intent to preserve other family member's inheritance.

Your aunt is working and living with your grandmother full-time, as in round the clock - acting as grandmothers caregiver.

I think, in just about anyones
estimation, it’s fair to say Auntie has put living her own life aside - for the time being in order to care for her mother. Agreed?

Why? According to your suspicions it’s in order to stash all of grandma money away so that Auntie, Uncle and another living sibling can share the inheritance without including their deceased siblings children.

Seriously? Every day one can read here about one sibling getting stuck with all the caregiving. That’s not unusual. What would be usual is for the one person doing all the heavy lifting, stashing her compensation and then later splitting all the money she earned - with two other people who did not share in the work load.

Is your Aunt really that giving and generous?

Honestly - that has to be the
most convoluted conspiracy theory I’ve every hear of here on AC. No
offence, but it is.

Just out of curiosity- just what
level if care does your grandmother require? If she is needing the assistance of bath aides- I thinking it significant. Diapers? Dementia?

Haven't read all the responses but thats 200 a day. If you paid someone 10 and hour 24/7 it would be 240 a day. Aunt has to cook, clean and be there 24/7. A NH would cost 10k a month. Aunt is making 72k a year. Hope she is taking out SS and paying Federal and state taxes.

Kate, I've just read your explanation.

So you think your uncle is intentionally diverting funds? Essentially, you're calling this arrangement fraud, yes?

It certainly is cheaper to pay your aunt $6000 a month than to pay for a nursing home.

But the cost of maintaining your grandmother in her home is not $6000. It is $6000 + her routine household expenses + the hired caregivers + whatever figure you put on the potential earnings of the capital represented by the home.

You have to set against that the question of your grandmother's wishes. You were talking to her about moving in to a nice ALF with good support, but you don't say how she reacted to this suggestion? Your grandmother would be quite an unusual person if she didn't prefer to stay in her own home, as long as possible.

And in any case I'm still not sure it's worth your while to pursue this. What figure do you think your aunt should receive? Unless you pitch it insultingly low, it's just not going to make enough difference in the long run to be worth the difficulty of challenging what she's paid; and come to that, split three or four ways, the fraud you suspect would hardly be worth the bother and the jeopardy to your wicked uncle, would it, not really. And besides, if he'd been up to anything really nefarious why would he have troubled to warn you to manage your expectations?

It's certainly legal, it's between your grandmother and your aunt. You also have the assurance that at least one third party is aware of the arrangement and has approved it, so it isn't the case that your aunt is finagling this out of her vulnerable mother or anything like that.

$6000 a month would be a handsome salary for a humble caregiver, is that what worries you? But as others suggest, you try it and see if you still think it's generous. If that sum is what your aunt during her own career perhaps considered to be a respectable figure, and especially when you also factor in the cost of alternative types of full-time care... could be your grandmother is getting a bit of a bargain.

As for the rent! - again, try living in yourself. There's many a live-in caregiver who is happy to pay almost any price for the occasional night away.

"My grandmother told us the sum she pays my aunt"

I think this is the crux of the issue, your grandmother knows and agrees to the arrangement, she is not being forced to do something against her will. Maybe she would be able to use her veterans benefits to pay for care in a facility but she would much rather live in her own home and pay her daughter to be her caregiver, it is her money and her decision. And how Auntie chooses to spend or divide the money she is earning is completely up to her.

Amen to that. Does it all boil down to money and splits??? Please, these are people! They lived, loved, worked, saved...it is not about you and what inheritance you may, or may not get.... Make your own way.

For clarification, my father and my uncle are both deceased so we are successors. The POA sat us down the other week and said Grandma’s finances are diminished and to not expect anything when the time comes. The POA went on to say that my aunt will be paid and they met with an accountant who said it’s a fair payment. At this time we did not question anything and didn’t know the exact figure she was paying. Prior to our father and uncle passing away, we attempted to speak to my grandmother about going into assisted living. She is a veteran and would receive great assistance. My uncle, the POA, said no, he would help care for her. My aunt, who has been out of the
pic for a few years, moved in and the POA did all this with out discussing it. My grandmother told us the sum she pays my aunt and we were in shock, considering my aunt also gets a nice pension. We suspect that the money is going into an account for the three remaining siblings so it doesn’t have to be shared with the successors of her deceased children.
the POA has significant control over the situation.

My dear; my advice to you is to volunteer to move in and care for grandma around the clock for 5 days, so that Aunt can have a break.

At the end of three days, please come back and tell us what you think Aunt's time is worth.

If Grandma were paying privately for in home care, she'd be paying $25. per hour for each and every hour. $600. per day. $4200 per week. $17K per month. And no, live ins do NOT pay rent.

If Grandma was in a "good" nursing home, as my mom was, she'd be paying at least $12K per month in the Northeast.

Yes, I understand that your concern is that your inheritance will be diminished by the amount that grandma pays for care. The executor is saving you a TON of money. Get over it.

The confusing bit is about ‘executor of her will’. If Grandma is still alive, the will is not in effect and the future executor has no current powers. Or is the ‘executor’ also guardian or POA? Did the ‘executor’ talk to anyone else in the family about this, even if none of them had any legal power to make the decision? Did Grandma agree, and did she have capacity – or did she just do as she was told? At a minimum, there should be a carer agreement and some financial records so that the payments will count as ‘spend down’ in case Grandma has to apply for Medicaid in the future. And Aunt should probably be declaring the income for tax purposes, as Medicaid almost certainly cross checks with the tax department. It may be that the arrangement is in everyone’s interest, but it would be a very good idea to go through the mechanics of what has been done, to make sure that no mistakes are being made. Where are your parents in this? They should probably be the ones to take it up.

In home, 24/7 care in my area would be about 12k a month. A nursing home about the same. It is necessary to have caregivers come in to give aunt a break. Thank your lucky stars that aunt has the courage and dedication to provide the care.

Room and board? If there was an agency caregiver there they would also receive room and board and paid about double.

What can you do to assist with grandma's care? I suggest you leave this all alone. Grandma is receiving great care and you should be grateful. You should not concern yourself with any of this. Sounds like the POA or trustee is doing a fine job. An executor does not come into play until after death.

Leave it alone. Since your grandmother is getting good care in her home from someone who loves her and whom she loves - that is worth it’s weight in gold.

And yes, it’s likely cheaper than a nursing home. A good nursing home will run $6,000 - $10,000 a month AND there will be no one-on-one care like grandma is receiving from her daughter now.

The only three real concerns you should have regarding this set up - in my humble opinion- is that your aunt is able to care for your grandma round the clock without killing herself - it’s a tough, tough job. Next, is your grandma able to afford this care for however long this situation is likely to continue. And - is there a caregiver contract in place. Should grandma out live her money and need assistance by way of Medicaid, whomever is handling her affairs will need to show that the money was a legitimate caregiver expense and not gifting.

Really - you are lucky. Don’t go spoiling it or your relationship with family by fretting over money that isn’t yours.