I can never please my mother. Should I set boundaries?

Dear "Hummer,"

I'm sorry you've spent your entire life trying to please parents who can't be pleased. You need to realize that even though your dad has passed away and it's just you and your mom along with B and SIL, that won't change. First of all, we really need to be comfortable and accepting of ourselves and not try to please ANYONE - this will only lead to feeling hurt, unloved and unaccepted.

Boundaries are a necessity in every aspect of our lives whether it's with family, bosses, co-workers or friends. So yes, it's is quite fair to set ground rules and actually they need to be set. It will be so much harder now because they weren't established early on. It's like raising children, you can't let them do whatever they want, then becoming problem children and then trying to set boundaries - it get's to a point where they will totally ignore those newly set rules and run roughshod over you. Same in this situation - you will really need to stand your ground as if your feet are in concrete to pull this off.

I get the impression your mom has been catered to her whole life and that's why NO ONE can please her. So it's not just you and I'm sure when you were younger, you took it upon yourself to believe it was "you."

Your mom never seems to be satisfied or happy for that matter. I like the two rules you want to set if you are going to start cleaning her apartment at the request of your B and SIL.

I tend to agree with you, it would be good to get her into AL but, your hands seem to be tied since you're not her POA and I don't know what type of relationship you have with your B and SIL in regards to whether they would listen to your advice/suggestions or opinions.

Good luck in however you decide to handle the situation!

I would not clean your mother's apartment, no way. I'd offer to pay for a cleaning service to do it FOR her, whether she likes the job they do or not.......b/c we all know she is not going to like WHATEVER cleaning job is done for her, including yours. So what's the point? It's not a 'suggestion' you're offering as much as an ultimatum: either I hire someone and pay for it or it doesn't get done.

You can set down all the boundaries you'd like........but that is not going to stop her from complaining. My mother has turned it into an art form, in fact, then when I ask her to stop, she'll say I'M NOT COMPLAINING. In other words, a no-win situation

How you plan to handle YOUR no-win situation is entirely up to you. As long as you don't expect compliance or appreciation from your mother, you'll be all set!

Good luck!

Usually we get the ones who are doing all the caregiving work posting on here. So it's a switch that it's someone who hasn't been helping and now is being asked to do something and doesn't want to.

BUT!!!! YOU are the one who wrote here, so YOU are the one I'm concerned about. There is no reason why you should start cleaning her apartment. You know how it will go, and I admire you for not even wanting to try it out. Set the boundary now and stick to it.

I also think your brother and his wife shouldn't be doing all for her, but they are not on this board and so they will have to learn about boundaries another way.

Obviously, your mother needs to be in a living situation where she gets more help from people on-site.

What is your relationship with your brother and his wife like? Is there any chance they could come around to seeing that NONE OF YOU should be doing all the caregiving work to uphold the charade of her "independent" living?

There's nothing wrong with giving the housekeeping thing a go. If it doesn't work out, then you know this isn't for you and steps can be taken to find another cleaner.

I would suggest that Mom NOT be present when you clean. She may object to the way you are doing something and precious time would be spent dithering over how to clean what.

The few times I was truly able to get mother's apartment CLEAN was when YB took her away for a few hours and I opened windows and got out the bleach. A LOT of junk got thrown away and altho mother couldn't put her finger on what exactly was 'wrong' she was upset over my removing items, cleaning under them and returning them. I also did throw away her throw rugs and dead plants and took all her old books and puzzles and donated them to the Sr Center. (Something she herself would do, but b/c I did it she didn't get the credit!)

We quickly discovered that mom didn't WANT anyone to clean. She was perfectly happy with a semi-organized mess--and when YB found her digging through the garbage cans after I had left--well, the cleaning ended.

You ABSOLUTELY can and should set ground rules, or you or she will be upset. My daughter has a housekeeper and she does specific tasks, and no more. Making a 'to-do' list and the having her OK what she wants done seems to help.

I haven't cleaned for years for her, but boy, do I want to.

Good to stay out of the fray, as it were. It just brought me sadness and anger. Not worth it.

Thanks.

She does belong in AL. My grandmother was so proud of living independently in her own house and never realized she hadn't been alone for the last two years before we moved her into her niece's home.

It's time to have a heart-to-heart with your brother, POA or not. Too many people think AL, memory care, or whatever the next level of care is somehow a step down toward the grave. Quite the contrary -- it enables the person to have the help they need at the level its needed, and it often makes their lives infinitely better.

If I'd kept my mom in her first nursing home, she'd be dead by now because they didn't really do much for her. I moved her to memory care which covers all level of care from AL to skilled nursing, and she's barreling along very well at 91. I truly didn't think she'd live to be 86 under my dad's loving but limited care, then the first nursing home gave her maybe an extra year. Now I don't know how long she can keep going, because she's getting excellent care.

If your mom needs AL, she needs AL. It isn't some kind of personal failure on her part or anyone else's. It is what it is, so bring up the topic.

Absolutely. Say 3 hours a week once a week or whatever? If that doesn't work, offer to hire a cleaner. If none of that works, oh well, you tried. You will be trying, and if it doesn't work you will say that you have tried. If they feel she needs a higher level of care, then they are there to take care of that as her POA. Good luck. The good thing is that you already KNOW you will not live up to her expectations; but then she hasn't lived up to yours either, so all's fair, hee hee.
You can always ALSO say that you are quite certain, given history, that your housekeeping skills will not live up to her expectations. That you would rather say, do shopping with a list, laundry, or other chores on a weekly basis. You could ALSO say that you are willing to HIRE in help, but not to DO it yourself, as you feel you have already learned the lessons of being "not good enough" and don't need a repeat on them. I feel bad for your brother and SIL as well, but they have made this choice. We can't make choices for others. Only for ourselves.

She should be in Assisted Living not IL!
One of the reasons is for her safety.
IF something should happen to her the staff in IL are not allowed to help her get up, if she should fall, they are not allowed to help her with any ADL's In AL she could get that help if she needed it. Without waiting for your brother or sister to show up to help.
Does the facility offer cleaning service / house cleaning? If so that is the way to go.
But yes you should set boundaries.
If you want to take on the job of cleaning you can establish your rules for doing so. Mom needs to be out of the room so either brother or sister in law goes to pick her up and take her for a drive. You can go when lunch is served if that is convenient for you. But I think it would be much easier to have the facility provide cleaning service. If she will not agree to the "rules" or boundaries you want to set then you are really under no obligation to clean her apartment. (You can come and do my place, I will gladly leave while you work)

Your Mom has a Dementia. If your Mom was hard to please growing up, your not going to be appreciated now. People who suffer from Dementia can no longer reason or appreciate. They become like small children and self-centered.

Don't clean for Mom, clean for ur brother. It must be hard to have to keep hiring someone.

Can u clean while Mom is at an activity? One person living alone should not be too dirty. The dirtiest places would be the bathroom and the Kitchen. Her bedroom and L/R shouldn't need too much. I love the Swiffer products. The dry Mop and the dusters I use all the time. Comet bathroom cleaner I have used for years. Swiffer also has a wet mop. You don't have to do deep cleaning everytime you go. I use an electric broom for vacuuming rooms that aren't used that much. Only using my reg vacuum for deep cleaning.

Boundries are OK but may not work for a person with Dementia. Think Mom as a bad client but u need the money. Let what she says roll off your back. Get earplugs or earbuds and listen to music. Unless she is a hoarder should not take that long to clean.

Like I said, do it for ur brother. Be glad ur not the POA with the responsibility he has. He puts up with Mom a lot more.

Tell her what you’re willing & able to do, then tell her that the rest will be hired out, done by bro, whatever. TELL HER that, if she fires anyone, she will go without the help she needs. I had to face this very dilemma, when Mom realized I meant it, she stopped ranting.
My Mom did not have dementia; I can’t walk in your shoes there. But if you don’t take care of yourself first, you’ll be no good to anyone!

No. Either do it, or don't it, but don't set ground rules which are antagonistic to start with.

It's not unreasonable for your mother to want her home cleaned the way she likes it cleaned. Can you afford to pay for someone for her to fire? I'm being a bit flippant - what you're actually looking for, of course, is someone who is prepared to do things EXACTLY how she likes them done and is good at finding out what that means.

It's always a challenge, a client like this, but there comes the glorious day when s/he scans the room, narrow-eyed, and there is blessed silence, and the wise worker adopts an innocent expression and does NOT say "well? Anything I've missed, your ladyship?"

By the way. The list of things your mother can do is not bad for a lady in her mid-90s. Long may she continue.

Don't set foot in her apartment yourself, no matter how much you would like to support your brother and wife. That would be a genuine hiding to nothing.

If she's not capable of living independently she should not be in Independent Living. Set big, big boundaries. Great Wall of China big. She needs to be in Assisted Living. Don't help her maintain an illusion of independence, it's not safe for her and it's not fair for you.

I am probably going to give some advice that differs from others.
1) I think that your Mom is doing alot for herself. Is she ambulatory? If so, she's leaps and bounds ahead of many.
2)It's a positive that she does participate in some activities.
3) I would suggest that you clean her apartment, at least for now.
She may fire people, due to lack of trust. As people age, they want to be independent and find it difficult to trust (unfortunately for a good reason).
Could you eventually bring someone (cleaning person) with you to "help you" and let them establish a relationship with Mom, then gradually let them take over.
3) I also suggest that you bring lunch/dinner over once a week for a social time. You could make a favoite food or puchase something. Bring enough for her to have the next day. Can she use a microwave?

Best wishes to you and Mom.

Sounds like my mother. You can offer to clean her apartment, but perhaps get a cleaning person so you don't have to do it. Better to pay for one then do all the work yourself. You mom lived a full life into her mid 90's. It is best that you
take care of yourself and not get too involved in every aspect of her life. I run a business and my mom is 82 and very time consuming. She wants tons of attention which I give her on the phone but it is just never enough for her.
If you have your brother taking care of her then let it be and yes, count your blessings.

It sounds like everything else is being done for your mom and you should be willing to step in and clean her Apartment.

I think it great that your mom can live by herself in her own place, it's the best thing.

it's awesome at her age she can still dress, feed and toilet herself.

Having her out of the Apartment would be a good idea, as long as you can schedule a time when she will be at an Activity at her facility but usually those just last an hour.

When your mom has a Dr's and would be an excellent time but I'm sure your mom needs someone to come once a week.

Of course talk it over with your sister and see what times your mom is usually gone from her room.

I think you're being a little too extreme in saying the first time your mom complaines that you will quit.
I'm sure you did a lot of complaining when you were growing up and she didn't quit on you.

Wok things out as it's not too much to ask to do a little cleanup once a week.

Wold you rather do laundry, grocery shopping, fixing her food and taking her to Dr appointments?

Hi..
I wouldnt even do it, if you're gonna go in with that attitude. She will def. complain.
You will quit. END OF STORY

It's so challenging to set boundaries with a parent, even as an adult. It just seems to go against the traditional parent-child arrangement where the parent is the one telling us what to do, and we are expected to do it, or risk being labeled "bad" or "ungrateful," etc.

I struggle with guilt with my husband's parents - he does a lot for them, but it is never enough. I have largely removed myself from the equation, which is probably not the most productive approach, but I am tired of jumping through flaming hoops and still being criticized.

When I do assist, I set ground rules. And if the ground rules are violated, I again remove myself from the situation. My biggest feeling of guilt comes from knowing that when I remove myself, it adds to what my husband feels he has to do - but he also needs to start setting some healthy boundaries.

I think it would totally be fair to set ground rules going in - I also think you should be given the option to hire someone to clean if you can't do it - as long as her place is clean, that's the end goal that matters.

Why haven't you ALREADY set boundaries with your mother?
I'm thinking about your brother and SIL -- they have been carrying the load for a long time. Good. They are now asking for specific help. Why can't you help them and your mother with this simple request? Cleaning doesn't take all day. Wear headphones, do it while she is at one of her activities. OR.... decide that this could actually be some quality time with your mom. Play her kind of music, ask her about her early life. Take some cookies and have her make some tea. You won't have her for long..........

Setting boundaries with a parent is very difficult. I had to do this with my mother. Our relationship seems similar to yours.

If I may suggest, think about what you can and cannot handle with your mother. Set kind and appropriate boundaries. Explain them to your mother, brother and SIL. Helping might alleviate some of your guilt, but remember you cannot change a person.... meaning, your mother is not going to make an effort at her age.

If the cleaning doesn’t work out then maybe you can negotiate with your brother for other duties.

Good luck,
Nancy

If it were me, I would do it to help out my brother one or two times a week.
You already know she is going to be critical no matter what or who. So, knowing that, let it roll off your back and don't take it personally.
If you go in setting yourself up with the attitude it's not going to work out, then there's no point in offering your help. Your brother will see through, "well I tried".

Absolutely help and go from there. It’s frustrating for family members who carry a heavy load with hardly any support. Put yourself in your sil shoes!! She helps so why would you not.

Yes you should set boundaries, Did they ask you or tell you? It sounds like they figured this out without consulting you. To begin with "they" aren't in charge of your time and energy.

My mother was narcissistic and I had to keep very strong boundaries. to survive emotionally.

You can't please a narcissist. That is part of their nature, She will end up being critical of you as she has with the others. Please set boundaries of what you can and can't do and won't do, knowing she is as she is, Apparently she has the money to hire cleaners if she needs them. Narcs want servants who will jump and ask high high on the way up, who will make the narc the center of their world as you bro and sil have. It is not healthy. Please be wary of being sucked into this.

You could do it once or twice a week and tell her if she gripes too much you will quit.

Boundaries is a good plan, but I have found when I try to put up boundaries it results in a lot of child like manipulating behavior from my mom, I am trying to learn to keep the boundaries while putting up with the lousy treatment from her.

Let her pay for a cleaner. It’s not your responsibility how many she fires. You already sense she will be difficult. Trust those feelings .

Independent living provides apartment cleaning.

Boundaries are more often about you changing, not them. Sometimes others will change in response to you setting a boundary and sometimes they won't and will work hard testing the boundaries you set. In any case you have set up limits that are healthy for you. Look after yourself and keep them. If their behaviour gets too abusive leave.

Yes, absolutely set boundaries or "ground rules". You are already aware of difficulties you may incur based on past experience. Overall know that you do not even have to accept the request for you to clean so that can be one of your boundaries right now. If you do accept communicate your boundaries and be prepared to back off as soon as you start to see it going off the rails. Setting boundaries is one thing, enforcing them is entirely different.

What could you possibly do that the IL facility does not do? Except for feeling guilty and being manipulated?

If your Mom has dementia, just go in and clean. Doesn’t matter if she’s home. Doesn’t matter if she likes the way you clean. It needs cleaned and you’re the one doing it.

If she fusses, just keep cleaning. “Yeah, I know you don’t do it this way, but I’ve got to get it done, so I’m going to do it this way.”

Let everything else roll off your back. Dementia is a beast, you’re going to have to develop a tough shell. It will get worse as it goes. I hope it goes better than you imagine. Hugs to you.

Put on head phones and listen to great music while you clean. When you have cleaned to your satisfaction, you are done.