Pay, has your mom had a bad experience when being taken out of her familiar surroundings? There aren’t many details in your post. Why do you feel these outings might not be a good idea? Does Mom have dementia? Has she had a difficult time recovering from these outings? Is she in a care facility or living with you? And finally, what gave you the idea that the outings are not safe?
I ask because I had a bad experience when bringing my own mom out of her care facility. When we would be out of town on Thanksgiving one year, I asked a mutual friend of my mother’s and mine if she would have my mom to her house that day so Mom wouldn’t be alone. Mom was so out of her element and upset that she wound up in the ER two days later with chest pains. I never brought her out again.
What sorts of outings are your family taking her on that could be unsafe? Does Mom have physical or mental limitations that they are disregarding? Has Mom had “meltdowns” once she returns?
Gladimhere is right, you could be investigated if your family complains that you are refusing them access to Mom. We’ve had several posts about that. But if you are truly trying to keep Mom safe, that’s another story. Have you voiced your concerns to your family? Was there an occasion where Mom may or could have been injured because she wasn’t supervised by them? If so, share your side of the story with the Ombudsman.
Why are they not safe? You could be charged with abuse if you continue to isolate mom. Would her doctor back you up in restricting others from taking her out? Always remember this is about what is best for mom.
Campers are hard enough for someone w/o dementia to navigate; they're small, close, with little room for maneuvering. The cramped space could aggravate her mood, and seriously disorient her.
As healthcare POA you can make these kinds of decisions for Mom IF she cannot make them for herself. Are you making other healthcare decisions for Mom?
Is she competent to make decisions for herself? Does she want to go? Then she gets to go.
Like other posters, I'd like to hear where Mom is living, and what kind of outings you deem unsafe.
No matter what the circumstances, the best outcome would be for family members to meet and discuss what is in the best interests of Mom. You can explain your reasons for your decisions. Perhaps there can be compromises. OK, these kinds of outings are perfectly OK, but these others are off-limits.
Since an ombudsman has been involved I take it there is some adversity in family relationships. Is there any chance of a family meeting smoothing things over? Would having a social worker or clergy person or some objective outsider at such a meeting help?
Taking your elderly mom out camping is probably not a good idea in my opinion. Especially if it will disorient her when she comes back. Suggest to your family that they take her somewhere else. Somewhere more safe and public.
PAY29, I also vote "NO" to the camping trip. Not a good idea as you already realize. I have been a camper for many years, and there are just too many things that can happen.
If one has a camper with no bathroom facility on the camper, then Mom would need to use the camp ground restrooms. Easy to get disoriented as to where the camper might be. One has to be very careful when walking, lot of things for anyone who isn't paying attention to trip over. And heaven forbid, if Mom decides to go out for a walk on her own.
How far away is the nearest hospital? Add that time to the 20 minutes it takes for the ambulance to get to the camp ground. Time for the relatives to decided on plan B as to another idea to spent time with Mom.
I'm adding my 2 pesos here. I've taken your sentences and have added to them.
"She just was realized from the hospital a week ago. [She had been in ER 5 times since March 31]" OBVIOUSLY (to everyone but your family) your mom is not well. Does it make sense to take her out in the woods when she's ill? Given the information you stated, you can calculate her next ER visit (43 days divided by 5 trips to ER=8.6 days ......the next ER trip/admission is the night of May 14th. This is not advanced calculus. Can they do math?
" She was hospitalized for passing out"... Passing out in the woods would not be a good thing. Calling "The nearest ambulance is 20 miles away." would be a long wait while she remains passed out. Like was said above, then how long is the ride to the hospital? Then a new hospital and more confusion.
"...and terrible outbursts." She's not mentally stable or emotionally well managed. Do they really want to be awakened at 3 am by blood curdling screams because she's hallucinating or scared? Would they be able to calm her with what they have available in the woods?
"She has issues with orthostatic blood pressure." So it would be just great (tongue in cheek), while hiking down hill, sitting to rest, she gets up, has a drop in BP to the point of passing out and falling down the hill? See scenario above.
"She has a very difficult time when she comes back from outings. She thinks she should go home, staff has difficult time redirecting her." This is completely normal when Alzheimer's patients are taken out of their normal setting. Is it really FAIR to your mom to pack her off camping so your FAMILY can feel good, then have mom so wacked out for the next few days that she can't be reoriented? Well, THEY don't have to worry about that. That's the (underpaid) job of the aides at the facility. And it's your MOM who pays the price and has to feel bad.
"She was found outside of facility after outings." THAT should NEVER happen. Failure of staff and security to provide for her safety. Ask about an ankle bracelet alarm. Or tell admin. to have someone manning cameras at ALL times. Confusion again due to the confusion from being taken from familiar surroundings.
Your family need to educate themselves about dementia/Alzheimer's. They are dangerously ignorant! And it's your mother's safety that HAS to be first and foremost.
Be a hard a** and refuse to let her go out camping. No judge in the world would even try this case in his court. A sick, elderly, demented woman out camping does not make sense. I'm with you. You are saving your mother from her uninformed family (who probably have good intentions but little else.)
A picnic in the local park is a great idea. Go along and observe how they handle her. If not correctly, then put your foot down for good.
Agree, 100% camping is not appropriate. Your family members need an education in dementia. What other sorts of outings have they suggested or wanted to take mom on? Picnic in a nearby park would be a great compromise.
You have authority and responsibility to make decisions in your mother's best interest. You've done that. Enforce your decision.
Family complains that you won't let them take her in a camper? Let them complain. You still have the authority and responsibility to make decisions in your mother's best interest. Don't let apparently ignorant family members deter you from you responsibility.
DeeAnna we meet with them the day she moved in. The facility says it is up to the Health Care POA the problem is if I say no they family members will go to facility director and ombudsmen saying I am doing something wrong again kind of a vicious cycle. I have no problem with the spending time or taking her on outings, I am even willing to give up my time with her for them. It just has to be safe
I ask because I had a bad experience when bringing my own mom out of her care facility. When we would be out of town on Thanksgiving one year, I asked a mutual friend of my mother’s and mine if she would have my mom to her house that day so Mom wouldn’t be alone. Mom was so out of her element and upset that she wound up in the ER two days later with chest pains. I never brought her out again.
What sorts of outings are your family taking her on that could be unsafe? Does Mom have physical or mental limitations that they are disregarding? Has Mom had “meltdowns” once she returns?
Gladimhere is right, you could be investigated if your family complains that you are refusing them access to Mom. We’ve had several posts about that. But if you are truly trying to keep Mom safe, that’s another story. Have you voiced your concerns to your family? Was there an occasion where Mom may or could have been injured because she wasn’t supervised by them? If so, share your side of the story with the Ombudsman.
Is she competent to make decisions for herself? Does she want to go? Then she gets to go.
Like other posters, I'd like to hear where Mom is living, and what kind of outings you deem unsafe.
No matter what the circumstances, the best outcome would be for family members to meet and discuss what is in the best interests of Mom. You can explain your reasons for your decisions. Perhaps there can be compromises. OK, these kinds of outings are perfectly OK, but these others are off-limits.
Since an ombudsman has been involved I take it there is some adversity in family relationships. Is there any chance of a family meeting smoothing things over? Would having a social worker or clergy person or some objective outsider at such a meeting help?
If one has a camper with no bathroom facility on the camper, then Mom would need to use the camp ground restrooms. Easy to get disoriented as to where the camper might be. One has to be very careful when walking, lot of things for anyone who isn't paying attention to trip over. And heaven forbid, if Mom decides to go out for a walk on her own.
How far away is the nearest hospital? Add that time to the 20 minutes it takes for the ambulance to get to the camp ground. Time for the relatives to decided on plan B as to another idea to spent time with Mom.
"She just was realized from the hospital a week ago. [She had been in ER 5 times since March 31]"
OBVIOUSLY (to everyone but your family) your mom is not well. Does it make sense to take her out in the woods when she's ill?
Given the information you stated, you can calculate her next ER visit (43 days divided by 5 trips to ER=8.6 days ......the next ER trip/admission is the night of May 14th. This is not advanced calculus. Can they do math?
" She was hospitalized for passing out"...
Passing out in the woods would not be a good thing. Calling "The nearest ambulance is 20 miles away." would be a long wait while she remains passed out. Like was said above, then how long is the ride to the hospital? Then a new hospital and more confusion.
"...and terrible outbursts."
She's not mentally stable or emotionally well managed. Do they really want to be awakened at 3 am by blood curdling screams because she's hallucinating or scared? Would they be able to calm her with what they have available in the woods?
"She has issues with orthostatic blood pressure."
So it would be just great (tongue in cheek), while hiking down hill, sitting to rest, she gets up, has a drop in BP to the point of passing out and falling down the hill? See scenario above.
"She has a very difficult time when she comes back from outings. She thinks she should go home, staff has difficult time redirecting her."
This is completely normal when Alzheimer's patients are taken out of their normal setting. Is it really FAIR to your mom to pack her off camping so your FAMILY can feel good, then have mom so wacked out for the next few days that she can't be reoriented?
Well, THEY don't have to worry about that. That's the (underpaid) job of the aides at the facility. And it's your MOM who pays the price and has to feel bad.
"She was found outside of facility after outings."
THAT should NEVER happen. Failure of staff and security to provide for her safety. Ask about an ankle bracelet alarm. Or tell admin. to have someone manning cameras at ALL times.
Confusion again due to the confusion from being taken from familiar surroundings.
Your family need to educate themselves about dementia/Alzheimer's. They are dangerously ignorant! And it's your mother's safety that HAS to be first and foremost.
Be a hard a** and refuse to let her go out camping. No judge in the world would even try this case in his court. A sick, elderly, demented woman out camping does not make sense. I'm with you. You are saving your mother from her uninformed family (who probably have good intentions but little else.)
A picnic in the local park is a great idea. Go along and observe how they handle her. If not correctly, then put your foot down for good.
Family complains that you won't let them take her in a camper? Let them complain. You still have the authority and responsibility to make decisions in your mother's best interest. Don't let apparently ignorant family members deter you from you responsibility.
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