I have been caring for husband for many years and its getting difficult. Now he wants to give other relatives cash?

Thank you for the responses. Life does get tricky doesn't it. Just to fill in some gaps, I do have my SS check deposited into my own account. Which, when he gets snarky accuses me of having access to my account and he isn't on it. I pay my car insurance and car payment out of this as well as other things which leaves me with next to nothing were I to try to get by on that. I do have a retirement fund but that isn't going to get me too far if I dip into it right away. Besides I could be working if I wasn't doing round the clock care because he can't be trusted to not get himself into a situation. He didn't attend the funeral as he has pulled so many outrageous behaviors over the years (been together for ten yrs) that my sister wouldn't allow it, and honestly I was just as relieved. She thinks all his problems are personality but I am sure there is a dementia component, plus he has burned every bridge and has no one left to care unless he pays them basically. I'm frugal but he doesn't want for anything. Heck he opened an Amazon acct and charged $900 worth of stuff including 13 harmonicas and he doesn't even play. Then accuses me of being a control freak. I won't go into the vehicle purchases which I have now had to get involved with the selling of. But he isn't all bad, of course, just impulsive and I always find out after the fact. He is much easier to care for with less autonomy. And keeping the car keys away is another fun game. I tell him that as soon as he gets a note from his doctor saying he can drive, I'll be happy to turn them over. That always works till the next time. He is in rehab for the next two glorious weeks, so limiting my visits changed his tune a bit and I have access to the accounts again for the moment. He accuses me of biting the hand that feeds me. Projection much? I am looking into getting more legal control of the situation too. I do have a condo that my daughter lives in that I put in a living trust just before hubs and I got legally married. We have been together ten years but I was always concerned about his spend thrift ways. We made things legal about a year ago in part so he couldn't toss me to the curb on a whim if he thought some scammer was madly in love with him. Think Russian brides. I'd better stop here, my life is so complicated!

Ladys, Please open your own accounts now, in your name only. Auto deposit your social security into that. Don't spend it.
That seems to be how your husbands treat you, his money is his. Why would you GIVE him yours?
Separate from him financially. Build your own credit, now. Protect yourselves!

Hi SophieBird - Your situation sounds even more complicated than mine although my husband was pretty hopeless with money throughout our marriage. I am trying to keep his relatives away and considering putting money in our current ac in to another account gradually just for me to pay for care disability aids etc. When I had my cards stolen this week the bank asked me to ask him to confirm that he was the main ac holder . I wish I knew how to get control as he seems to have some resentment towards me. Always saying how hopeless I am ! I am doing everything for his personal care house and garden all the paperwork etc etc. He says one minute he is thankful for all I am doing the next minute " you never concentrate - your mother said the same"!
You do need to rant Sophie but find out also what can be done for you to get more control. I am sure others on this site will know what is possible over there in the USA. Hope you get some helpful answers. You are being treated so unfairly like you say unpaid help. Will you have any rights over the house when he dies? Perhaps to stay there during your lifetime.

hm, Sophie, interesting, not sure I knew you could be an authorized user with a debit card on someone else's checking account; I just found out - I think, or at least I didn't remember - that I am one of one or 2 - yes, he has more - of hub's credit card accounts, not that it does me any good to find it out now, since they're maxed out, which is actually how I found out, when they got past due and they started calling me and they could tell me since I was an authorized user, but not on his checking, which is our main one; he transfers about what you get into "mine", which is actually "our" joint one, so here lately he's been going back in and taking it back out to cover these overages, etc. on his credit cards. I knew this was coming; he finally reached the point he couldn't get another credit card to cover the payments on the ones he already had. Now he's somewhat getting upset because a lot of these was from giving money to - yes, somewhat different I'm getting the idea from your situation - "our" son, who - and how many times have we been through this - was supposed to give it back when he got his big tax refund, which he only partially got from claiming his sister-in-law and her baby, who stayed with them a little while last year, but thought she was going to get the money - and might have had she continued to stay with them, but the otoh, think that's why she left, when they started saying they weren't, they were reimbursing themselves for the support they'd given her, which is really how it's supposed to work - but it doesn't look like it's working that anyway - again - but especially when he's using it to buy a new vehicle, another whole situation. I'm sorry about you losing your mother - but did you happen to get anything from her? I lost my dad a couple years ago and was already there since had gone up there when he'd gone in the hospital before he passed, didn't get too much grief then for the expenses; did your husband not go to her funeral with you? mine did come up later and we were provided a meal by his church, and actually didn't hear too much till later when some things happened with son's job, but that wasn't even till after we actually made another trip - together - to his cousin's funeral - but I did begin to get that that it's "his" money thing, too. I somewhat feel the same way, especially as it's now beginning to catch up with us, but was just saying that I did get some from dad; however, only because of something I'd done for him to get him out of a situation he'd gotten himself into, which I actually was only able to do because of something someone else did for me, which turned out in doing they actually did something to someone else that's now giving them problems, which are also coming to a head the end of the month so......I've heard so much of these situations of - I'm assuming - 2nd marriages, where the one spouse - or maybe both - already has a house and the other one just moves in with them - did you have one of your own as well? and they're not put on; we're actually concerned about hub's mother's situation along those lines as well, although, in one sense, she does still have her own house she was living in before, although - or maybe good thing - it's been placed in a life estate with ownership to her daughter; we do know new hub has given some of his land, at least, just not sure about the house they live in, to his grandson - well, even he's a step one belonged to his first wife. I'm assuming he's not making - or at least hasn't made - you POA?

I am in a similar situation. My husband has his checking acct and I have debit card in my name to use against this acct but it isn't joint. He has some issues going on that keep me guessing as to whether it is dementia or personality. I have had access to his acct because he was and has been party carefree about over extending himself financially. I finallly got things settled down and no more late fees coming in etc. Anyway the other day he locked me out of the acct. He eventually put me back on so I can keep on top of finances. Right now I am making less than $600 a month on SS. I guess what I am wondering is does he have any additional legal recourse against me if I make withdrawals against his acct that I am only authorized to use but not a joint acct? If I am only authorized to use his acct and he becomes overdrawn etc, would I be held equally responsible to cover any loss because we are married even though not joint acct holders? Am I making any sense? His financial irresponsibility terrifies me. He talks about leaving money to his young grandsons, a thoughtful jesture, but their parents have more money than they know what to do with, live far away and his daughter maybe calls on Father's Day for 5 min. It is beyond frustrating to hear him take offense w me for using "his" money for costs for me to attend my mother's funeral. And believe me it was a low key deal. Gas money and pizza! I feel like his unpaid help who over stepped my bounds. Additionally "our" house is only in his name and his daughter is on his will. He is definitely someone who has always been in control of things and is having to relinquish some of that autonomy. But it is going to be me who bears the repercussions. Maybe I just needed to rant and there aren't any real answers.

If he is of a sane mind, not much. It is his money to do with as he pleases.

oh, Rosmarin, so so sorry - it's a good idea to keep those numbers with you - but then if they took your whole purse, guess wouldn't help, unless maybe keep them in your vehicle, if you had driven; is a trolley like our "buggys"? they're advising us here to strap them through the handles - like we really do it, though, but maybe we should - but understand about the whole being distracted thing; the evening before I was leaving to go with my granddaughter out of state - several states away, flying - to the hospital - I dropped my bag or something, anyway wound up losing my bank card, with no time to do anything about it, so just had to be up there without it; thankfully, there was a national chain drugstore in the hospital I could write checks to, but no getting any cash, so just had to make do with what they sold.
Glad your husband hasn't said anything more about any of this; again, maybe interesting isn't the word but would be if the nieces would help; that was supposed to be the original plan with hub's aunt and uncle but somehow just never quite works out so maybe what's happening now is, but it's not what aunt, at least, wanted, at least not for herself; unc doesn't care and this has just depressed aunt. When you say take charge of the finances, what exactly do you mean? you already said you've hidden the checkbook, right? Was it today - maybe not, if you got out - that you were supposed to talk to those people? did we figure out if it's the same; anyway, the one program not really sure how income wise it is, but the other one has a triple limit than the usual one for income but even at that, yes, they're over the limit; is that what you mean or is it an asset thing? which, if they and/or you are talking about the typical, yes, they're still over that as well, but not sure; it gets so much more complicated if you're talking about a couple, like both you and them, than an individual. I'm glad what I said was helpful; this morning was quite stressful and I tend to do that when I am; are you wanting to use the money he was wanting to give away for care? seems I got that idea; wish they would; something I've not been able to either get across or understand; there always seems to be something else they - even her, but she always says it's him - need to use it for; we were getting quite concerned about both their cares and I somewhat still am. Not sure if interesting is the word here, either, but that difficult and complicated time is just related to the elder issues and that's not even what I was stressed out about this morning to begin with, and certainly then not what happened in the middle of all this or after that, but does have to do with dad dying and what they talk about the vultures sweeping in after that; wonder if those nieces will or maybe not if you actually give them something.
I'm glad you're able to still get out and have your little "vacation"; I think that would help aunt so much if she would; just don't understand what's going on now that they have the more help.
And hope the places CCTV was on; know when was involved in a similar situation found out they have them almost more just for show; at least they said they're either not on or they don't have actual tapes in them - goodness, then, what good do they do?

Yes Countrymouse the place has CCTV and they are going to look through it.
Thanks for the sympathy! Now I am going to be ultra cautious even when
going round my friendly local store .

Oh no! - that's all you need. I hope whatever lowlife lifted your purse finds out just who he took it from and feels appalling about it. Does the shop have any cctv?

debdaughter - What a difficult and complicated time you and your family have had! It was interesting and helpful to hear about your experiences. I think the government ( local government here) funds care only when you have very little left! Probably the same over there by the sound of it. I really need to take charge of the finance . I dont want to give anyone who is not working for me £6K for each niece) which is quite a lot of our savings. Hubby has not mentioned this again (yet ) after I went nuclear the other day .
Now I thought I would mention I just went to local store ( for my " vacation"!) and my purse was snatched from the trolley. As if I needed any more stress! My friendly store let me have the groceries free and one of the assistants ran me to the local bank who were useless! No staff and everyone waiting in a long line. In the end I raced home to get the bank`s stolen card number. So watch out everyone - you can be a target especially if you look distracted which I am sure I do. Not just in the city, I live near a small town.

they did refer us to a very knowledgeable private elder attorney but we didn't talk to him about coming to the house; at the time I think she wanted to talk to him herself, privately, about her concerns about her financial situation when he's gone, like we're talking about here, but at the time things had gotten to the point she didn't feel she could leave him to be able to do that; that was before she/he/they'd started getting this more help and that's just been recently and she hasn't said anything about it now since; she seemingly has just found out about some of this other situation as well herself

countrymouse, is it actually a primary caregiver's duty to see that the person they're taking care of has a will? because neither of them, certainly not him, do, and she's been wanting that to be taken care of, though it somewhat seems at this point as if there's not much left to will, although I think she may be more concerned at this point about what's left after they're both gone, but she's only talked about the lawyer they have somewhat through Adult Social Services - which is that a term you use over there? - that I don't think will come to the house, she talked about that back when they could still have gone, but I think that was before she'd begun to realize how little apparently he wanted her to have to do with anything and how much he was already turning over to this other person, so, who knows, maybe he does have one that she doesn't know about.

actually 4 - we've contacted Adult Social Services and they called recently and said they could provide - though not sure they can on top of the other route that's now already giving them the every day 4-5 hr. help, especially since I think they said they could pay for only 20 hrs./mo. but otoh, they said they could only do that if they were already getting help like they're getting now, which they weren't at the time, but also I think that was only if they were paying for it, which they're not; is that like this Citizens Advisory Board you're talking about, do you think?

again, don't know exactly how things work there in the UK, but here there are 2 different routes; well, in one sense, 3, but with one of them, they - or, technically, he, but some of it does help her as well, or at least him getting it helps her - are getting care every day now for I think maybe 4-5 hrs.

either he didn't realize you have to give POA to your wife, that she can't do anything even with "your" stuff, even if you are married, or he doesn't want her to be the one to be able to; he's always somewhat controlled things there as well, like yours, rosmarin

We think he may have given POA without wife knowing about it but re the public assistance, not sure how it is in the UK but we have private companies here who are willing to go ahead and pay a caring company to go ahead and come in and provide care while waiting for all the approvals to come through from the govt to pay for it with the understanding that they will be reimbursed when that happens but one of the stipulations for that is that nobody else have access to the account it will come to that could take it before they can get it or it be sent to them, so aunt was advised to at least, even if she didn't take out the funds from the joint account, to open a separate account, though now that I think about it, that was mainly, if not only, to have an account, that didn't have anybody else's name or at least that no one else had access to, not her own separate account, because she couldn't get the funds, unless she made sure she got them immediately upon deposit, but then that was the issue with the other person; I think we didn't realize the situation between them at that point

I'm not seeing the VA thing; maybe that was on another post and also I forgot about the check thing; was he going to just write and send them checks; that's something hub's uncle's never done, so she didn't have to worry about that angle of it, the problem being that's what she does, on top of, or maybe now that the retirement money's gone, though why, with the concerns she's expressed, I don't know. Anyway I believe I did see something about getting some type of public assistance.

that's what my parents did, as well as put all their assets in joint account, which upset my uncles because, like you, Rosmarin, possibly half of it was money that was left to her both by her mother when she died and also from the sale of her family's farm after her dad died, plus also her share of her uncle's estate, who died without any children and her dad being already gone, plus also her share of her aunt's estate, who also died without any children and her mother already being gone but somebody, not entirely sure if it was her or dad, then did the same thing, in giving a lot of it away, just know that by the time mom needed care the money wasn't there and she hadn't been able to go to the bank by herself for quite some time by then but also know that she - and I am wondering in this case how, Rosmarin, he wants to actually do this - is he wanting you to take him to the bank to do it, since he can't get there by himself? and what will he do or how will he act if you won't? that's exactly what was going on with hub's aunt and uncle, only nobody believed her, and I didn't either, until I took them somewhere, somewhat along the same lines, only not sure I realized it either until an incident happened along the way and I saw it for myself, that she was scared to not do what he wanted, though that doesn't seem to be quite your situation, but as part of that he practically drained them of all "their" finances to take care of her after he's gone and even to take care of him before; they didn't have a million either; actually I say "their" because, as I understand, even though this specifically (again, as I understand) was his retirement, the only reason and way they were able to still have it is because she funded their expenses out of a business that she had; had she insisted on keeping "her" money separate, like he did, as in I don't think she had access to this retirement account; not sure she could or he could allow her, since it was something set up by his company, but if she had, then if he had to use that for expenses, he wouldn't have had it to give away but he never considered that and she never really considered there could be a problem, even after also, besides their own expenses, she helped him buy a farm! I was somewhat wondering about children, as in their case, they also have the joint account, which also has their son's name on it, which the statement has this retirement account on it, so he's been able to see what's been going on with it, such that it was drained to the point of all that was left was what they'd said was to go to pay for their funeral, not sure if they'd told the bank that or not, but they said they would not let him have anymore of the money, but somebody else (the person who'd been being given the money?) also saw the bank statement and saw where that money was no longer there got him to tell them that he'd given permission? how? for possibly that other person on the other account? or maybe actually on that one as well - and nobody knew? - to withdraw that money and place it somewhere else? to keep it from being taken? though how? not sure but don't understand how, though really don't believe that's the case here, in liz's case, there can't be an elder abuse charge, if the money wasn't used for mom's care or more specifically if sis used it for herself, since that's exactly what's going on in this other situation of mine, but in this case, I believe the money's just been parked in another account for their funeral; I'm just concerned about between now and then; and I know, rosmarin, you're in the UK and I'm just another US'er but seems like something was said on here about the VA, though not sure if that was specific to your situation, but along the lines of when the money was used up, but that's not quite - or hasn't been - the same as the public money, at least hasn't been here....

Or, look on that £6K (?!) figure as the opening of a negotiation - you can be supportive of his wish to make a handsome gesture towards his nieces without its being quite as handsome as that.

Yep thought there had to be a trigger in there somewhere Rosmarin - it is too random if not. CAB will help you and they don't have to be as tightly to the line as perhaps some professionals have to be. I think it is a finely drawn line - is this a random expression that is indicative of something deeper and underlying or is it his real solemn wish to give the money to them. If it is the former then you need POA finance immediately or to draw the cash out and put it in your name and then record all spending - forgot to mention that earlier (and keep all receipts - I now have carrier bags FULL of them) if it is his solemn wish then try to get a lawyer to explain to him that the best way to do this is to have the solicitor draw up mirror wills- his leaving it all to you in the first instance and then to be gifted as stated should you die within 30days You draw up a will stating exactly the same only to him.

I am sorry if my response regarding joint accounts seemed harsh, it was not intended to be towards the original poster. Typical ugly American, I assumed she was in the US. (You know, the center of the world).
In any case, perhaps a nerve was touched because one of my sisters was on a joint account with my mom prior to her passing and she wiped the account of everything but $600. There was 5 figures in there, and as executor, there is nothing my other siblings and I can do about it, even the DAs office and elder abuse investigator said my sister did not break any laws. My mother had to absorb the fact that one of her 3 daughters took the majority of her money about 6 months before she died with me at home. My mothers money is gone, I have the bank statement with the date and time sis transferred all mom's money into her own private account. My point to the poster was that she needs to worry about herself, as caregiver first and not long lost relatives when the inevitable happens. The original poster sounded very, very concerned about finances, and again, here is the US, joint accounts are just that. However, I do believe that the caregiver in the UK should protect her assets and financial future. I am glad to read that she is getting UK legal advice to protect her future. If Rosmarins husband is making irresponsible decisions, I hope this can be stopped and rationalized since she is the one being hurt a bit by him giving money away. She is the caregiver and more importantly, a caring and devoted wife. We all know as caregivers that you have to take care of yourself first before you can take care of a loved one. I can imagine it must be difficult for her with the financial worries looming in back of her mind at the same time she is doing all medical, emotional, and psycological care. I wish rosmarin nothing but the best. Take care and god bless

OhJude It seems he is thinking back to when his older brother got divorced and he helped with the daughters for a short while many years ago when he was still a child himself. It could be memories of happier days. However his brother was never very responsible and would never have lent him money. Getting down to the nitty gritty I shall get more advice tomorrow. Half our money was left to me by my mother when she died but we put all our assets in joint names never thinking there could be a problem! Just when I thought things couldnt get any worse!

Kathy- We certainly have far less than one million dollars! I dont want to deprive him of anything but need money for his care as well as probably mine, I already told him I will give the nieces money in my will which I am getting drawn up right now. I do think his personality has changed and he isnt thinking straight. I dont intend to ask the hospice anything about finances but the Citizens Advice Bureau are usually very helpful so will be calling them tomorrow. And yes care is extremely expensive over here too! Many thanks for all replies.

In terms of cash gifts A person can only give 3000 pounds a year to a person or persons. That said a POA cannot do that in England unless they have good reason to. Let me explain....if I have given a gift of £3000 to my son and to my daughter every year as birthday gifts then a POA can gift that. If I have NEVER gifted before then the POA cannot because the POA cannot rationalise why they are doing it. However POA rules don't apply here but in the UK you cannot spend down either without someone asking questions. So wife is in a bit of a cleft stick. Hubby is asking for something that is not the norm, appears to be irrational and wife is rightly concerned. If hubby has any form of mental incapacity then it is likely that if he doesn't or perhaps now can't make her POA then he will become a ward of court at which point things will become expensive and difficult. In all honesty I would, if I were her, draw all the money out and put it in a private account to protect it. However I would also say that if he does still have mental capacity and can rationalise WHY he wants to gift that money then it should be released to be gifted, assuming that it comes from his share of the money.

My real concern is that perhaps he feels he owes that money for a perfectly good reason that he doesn't want his wife to know about (maybe he borrowed some money from their father or similar and didn't tell you and now wants to make things right) Then you do fall into difficulty because he will NEVER explain why he wants to gift it.

I think Kathy's idea of enacting his wishes in your will rosmarin is a fabulous idea but I note he is refusing that and wanting to do it now while he is alive. I would get a medical opinion on his state of mind and then take action accordingly but I would protect that money first....just in case

I think with or without brain mets, that persons with end stage lung cancers may show grandiose delusions or impulses of behavior lacking in judgment. If he didn't do those things before he got sick, I wouldn't let him do it now. The way to prevent it may seem passive aggressive (don't take him to the bank, hide his checks, don't mail the checks, do drain the joint account maybe) but if he is close enough to death to be on hospice you can't be passive about allowing him to drain assets you likely will need when you survive him. Maybe you can keep a list and have his wishes carried out in your own will from assets remaining after you die. Those nieces might get their check someday! If you have less than $1million dollars for yourself, you could easily spend it all on barely average care during the duration of your lifetime...at least in the USA.

LizDevine, you state that you "know law". Do you know English banking laws on joint accounts? That's the topic under discussion, not banking laws in the US.

Oops, one more thought, what are the tax ramifications of giving them cash? Maybe you could stall him on that thought.

My father had Mesothelioma before it was really diagnosed. The cancer traveled to his brain and destroyed his rational thinking. This may be what is happening to your husband. Talk to his doctor about this. I have no knowledge of English laws regarding money, I hope someone from the UK can help.

Whoa whoa Liz hold fire sweetheart that last post was a bit strong and CM is one of the most supportive contributors and in this particular instance is also British which is for once actually required - hear that CM we are wanted!!!!

Just for clarity and I AM SPECIFICALLY TALKING UK HERE
Joint accounts belong to both parties: the real disadvantage of them is that unless cosignators are arranged any one of the joint account holders can and very often has in the past withdrawn all the money.

Where CM was coming from is that in the UK if wifey took ALL the money and left him for whatever reason with nothing, the fact that he has a terminal illness could in theory, given his age be regarded as financial abuse. Our laws have stood us well over hundreds of years but somehow we never got to grips with banking laws!

It doesn't actually matter HOW irresponsible he is being if he has the money in the bank and wants it for his chimpanzee he can have as long as it is there. The money isn't hers either or rather it is all hers if she gets to it first and all his if he does! The only way she can stop it is to drain the account or request a change of mandate which would stop all spend on the account. If she TOLD the bank that her husband had mental disabilities the BANK will freeze the account (IN UK) to protect the vulnerable adult from financial abuse,

No Countrymouse, if you are on a joint account, then you have every LEGAL right to take out the money. The money in a joint account belongs to the wife, in this case, just as much as the husband. If her husband is making POOR decisions, completely blind to how his decisions may affect his wife negatively, then HE is being irresonsible and the wife should step up and stop it. It is not theft, feel free to google joint accounts. The $$$ in any joint account is co-owned by both authorized signers. The only unethical actions I read here were done by the husband. Where did you read "his own money"? It is not " his own money", it is HER own money too. I know finances, I know law, and I know and practice ethics. Please explain how the husband spitting away his wife's money, money that is hers and this wife needs to survive in the future, the wife who was his caregiver for years is ethical? It isnt HIS money, it is just as much HER money. Google what a joint account is. Educate yourself pls.