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My Husband and I agreed to have my disabled Father come to live with us 7 years ago. He is 72, diabetic and has lost both his legs (below the knees) due to self neglect, not managing his blood sugar levels etc and smoking heavily. He wanted to come and live with us and we converted our garage into an annex attached on the side of our house (he paid for the conversion with some of the money he got from selling his house). We live with a link door in-between. The problems have arisen over the last 18 months as its become apparent he is a serious alcoholic (1/2 litre bottle of vodka per night) and watches pornographic films for hours throughout the day with no attempt at keeping it discrete. This behaviour is obviously unacceptable especially as I have an 11 year old son who is in the vicinity of his Grandfather. Despite all this I still feel terrible guilt at the thought of asking Dad to leave. I have given him an ultimatum, he keeps his behaviour private or he moves out. He adopts a very passive aggressive behaviour and just sulks rather than discussing the situation. I feel very upset and trapped.

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Hi all thought I'd update you with a final post re our situation.
My father has begun formal counselling with a male therapist who deals in all his issues, looking back into his life dealing in trauma loss, dealing with the subsequent addiction issues etc. He's disposed of ALL offensive material and it's a huge relief to be able to come home without a feeling of dread and be able to go into my garden without fear. He knows he has run out of chances and this really is the last chance saloon! I hope it's not too late to finally set him free of these issues and he can be happy for how ever long he has left in his life. My Husband and I have dug really deep to try and help him and if it doesn't work out we know we've done all we could of. I have no expectations but hope for the best. Many thanks for all advice and I wish you all the best with your families too. X
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Idea
Would like to see you handle all this privately Lena.
Most people know that if the authorities are involved, they will most likely take your son out of there first.
In the United States, we have motels that will take monthly rentals.
Pay one month, put your Dad there, call to report a vulnerable adult for emergency placement. It no longer matters what Dad paid to remodel.

Hoping the entire suitcase is now already gone, right? Keep his letter, give it to authorities to protect yourself.

You will come to reconcile this in your own heart and mind after time.
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That argument of sex vs violence in films is as old as dirt! I'm a huge film nerd so have heard the theories beat to death.

I agree there is some validity to the argument. But there's a huge difference between a tastefully produced love scene in a film - with a plot and meaningful dialogue- and that utter demeaning garbage they put in porn films.

Like you said - it's a poor excuse made by an ill man.
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Well. If it were me, that would be it. Out.

He can't defend conditioning an 11 year old boy to think that porn is a normal part of domestic design on the grounds that Grand Theft Auto is worse. And that is what your father is doing, whether intentionally or not; and if he not only can't see that but actively argues the contrary - Byeeeeee!

Nuts to what your colleagues would say - what, like none of them has alcoholism, domestic abuse, crime or teenage pregnancy in the family?

Pretend you're a client. What would tell her to do?
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Thanks Rainmom I'm
All about being direct and appreciate your message. I can't thank you enough for being honest I just need to have people to talk to as obvs can't discuss with friends (who have met my father). Please be as honest and direct as you want. You are echoing my inner thoughts it's just reassuring to hear someone say this isn't normal, you aren't being unreasonable. I thank you sincerely
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I haven't mentioned another dynamic to this but I am an Occupational Therapist and work for the local authority so any referral would be dealt with by my social work colleagues (as if it couldn't get worse!)
I know they would be confidential and compassionate but still it's my area of work. Additionally I've just found a letter he wrote on my coffee table obviously intended for us to find stating his thoughts on the issues. Largely slagging off my brother, for things he did as a teenager? Also trying to defend the open viewing of hard core porn in the presence of children vs films in the cinema like Winter Soldier that contain some violence? Bizzare and scrabbling for excuses? He is a very ill
excuse for a man.
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Lene- sounds like you are getting a grip on the situation so anything I say now is probably not needed - but I'm gonna say it anyhow - sorry!

As others have pointed out - having the sound turned up so loud was a passive aggressive middle finger to you. There is no plot to follow, no dialogue required - heck, even the background music in these films isn't worth hearing!

Yes - your probably dealing with a mental issue and/or an addiction so dad will tell you whatever he thinks you need to hear to get you to leave him alone with his "drug" of choice. Don't buy into him saying he'll stop. He won't.

But the biggest "red flag", "writing on the wall" or "wake up call" has to be your brother remembering as a teenager- seeing dad drunk and watching porn. That could easily be your son!


Don't let your guard down - follow through with your plan of action. This is hard - this is heartbreaking- but it's also a keg of dynamite- it just has a long fuse. But that fuse is burning towards disaster.
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If he were living on his own, it wouldn't be a problem. A man can watch what he likes in his own home.

But he's sharing a home with his - your- family, and he had no idea that playing porn at top volume in the middle of the day could be a problem?

Ring social services and chat it through with them. You might as well start the ball rolling - after all, if a sheltered placement does come up you won't be forced to accept it if it's no longer necessary - and meanwhile they might have useful suggestions to make. Like day care or support services for him, service user groups who could widen his social circle, anything to give him a bit more meaning in life, really.
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Hi country mouse Well it's local authority run unless you can buy privately. This essentially means he has to wait to be assessed by a social worker (around 2-3 months) then goes on a waiting list for a flat to become available.
My Husband spoke to him today in length this morning and gave him a long letter to keep and read in his own leisure. He has said he had no idea this was a problem? Thinks it's normal to watch such material throughout the day etc. The man is in denial! He has agreed to never watch this stuff again in our home and throw it away (hundreds of DVDs that fill a suitcase btw) but my husband said to him he believes This is an addiction and more about control and urged him to receive counselling. He has reluctantly agreed but I'm doubtful he'll see it through. I've sadly lost all respect and empathy for what used to be my Father. I can only hope for a separate form of living until he passes away then it will be over.
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Dad sounds depressed, to me. I have a brother that does the same thing. It's like giving a drug addict an ultimatum. Doesn't really work and the person actually needs treatment. Medication might help. Then everyone can rest easier. Just my 2 cents.
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Well if he wants to wreck his own life that's up to him. Just don't let him take yours and your family's with him. To be honest, I'd start looking for sheltered accommodation regardless of any promises - then he can wallow as much as he chooses without doing anyone he might still care about any harm, and you won't be stuck permanently in the role of Bad Cop. What's the provision like in your area?
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Country mouse
You are right he's a very passive aggressive man. Plays the victim so he wants us to force him out so he can say we threw him out. Also he is quite hard of hearing but due to the content most people try to keep the volume low to avoid embarrassment of anyone hearing it! He sent me a txt message later on saying he wants to carry on living with us but it was my decision. I replied saying NO it's your decision, Im not behaving this way you are.
Luckily my brother is being v supportive and has offered to help as much as possible. He also shared experiences of finding Dad drunk watching porn at home when he was a teen, this was after I'd left home. I clearly didn't know this before agreeing to take on dads care at my home after he lost his legs. It's. Been a very difficult time for us all.
Can't reiterate again how helpful this site and all of you have been just to have someone to talk to.
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Lene, I'm just a bit puzzled - why does he need to have the sound turned up so high? 'Cos it's not for the scintillating dialogue, is it.

You don't suppose he's, subconsciously even, *trying* to get you to kick him out so he doesn't have to say he wants to leave?
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Thank you so much. I have done it! The utter tipping point came when I came home from work at lunchtime yesterday to collect lunch and there was blaring loud porn audio from dads annex. I could have had a work colleague with me, been collecting my unwell son from school anything but The point is I should be able to walk into my home in the day without this! It was like he was saying sod you I can do what I want.
I called my brother agreed he needs to go (but where?) so my Husband and I spoke to him calmly gave him 3 clear options 1) he disposes immediately of all material (btw it's all adult stuff not underage! I would go to police myself otherwise) and if this occurs EVER again my husband and brother will remove him and his belongings to a Hotel or whatever.
2) he makes steps to move out over a set time frame with our help.
He has promised to dispose of the material all of it at the local dump. My Husband will be checking this later today and If hasn't he's out at the local council office claiming homelessness I'm afraid this sounds harsh but my son and my family are the prioryans always will be. Dad has blown every opportunity in life up to now and now treats his own daughter like this!
ive tried for 7 years to manage this situation and I'm exhausted but I finally feel free.
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Lene07, Your answers are amazing with a willingness to share so a solution can be found. Can you create a more separate space? Tough love looks like this:
1) Remove doorway access indoors to your living space. Plaster it over, making it a wall. Hoping the add-on was a permitted legal unit, the separation will protect you from legal liability if someone calls APS or CPS, because his activities may be illegal with children in the home?
2) Instead of curtains, use a window film that allows light but not visibility into the room from the glass doors. Someone once suggested covering the glass by gluing on sheers or lace onto the glass for privacy.
3) The internet-cancel your subscription. For legal reasons, don't share internet access with porn. If he views child porn, who will get arrested when the authorities come and break down the doors? Share less and less.
4) Never leave him alone in the same room with any child, even if the child is just visiting.
5) Remove the DVD and t.v. or make sure it's broken, send it out for perpetual repairs.  Alter the dvd's so that they won't play properly (big scratch?).  Thus, making it more expensive for Dad.  He may get the message and want to move.
6) Have caregiving help come in to help Dad, you stay out of it, drawing a line in the sand.
7)  Ban your son from shopping at the local liquor store that sells porn.

This is really a difficult time for you! So sorry you are going through this with a beloved family member.
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Hi Jean thanks I appreciate your comments. I have spoken to my son about Grandad's drinking and there have been the odd occasion when he has been clearly v intoxicated and it scared my son to see him like that. They receive education on porn and the dangers etc at school. I will also have a Frank but sensitive conversation about it with my son.
We have curtains up in his room which looks out into the garden but he doesn't pull them which is the problem. I think I wouldn't really care if he kept it entirely private and was just doing this when no-one was in or we were in bed etc but it appears to have become an addiction i.e. Doing it throughout the day most days. As he's long term diabetic with severe neuropathy and I'm not being crude here but I'm not sure he's capable of having a full sexual relationship (if you know what I mean?!) hence why he watches it for hours and hours.
Re the 1/2 litre bottle of vodka a day and diabetes well he's clearly not helping himself.
I hope to get to a place of acceptance about this and try and remember the person he once was. I think it will take time. Many thanks to all who have offered advice it really does help.
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Why don't you insist on curtains that will block the view of anyone in the garden? You've already had granddad lower the volume. Your son does not go into his apartment.

It is probably obvious to anyone around that your dad frequently gets drunk.

I'm not sure I agree about booting Dad out of the space he has paid for. But even if that is what is going to happen, it doesn't sound like it can happen immediately. In the meanwhile, I don't think you should pretend to your son that granddad's behaviors aren't happening or that you approve of them. This is a good opportunity to talk about the risks of alcohol abuse, including the addictive power it has on some individuals.

Have you ever explained to your son why he isn't allowed in granddad's rooms? I can't imagine an 11-year-old who hasn't at least heard of pornography. This is a topic he could understand. Granddad is watching this and you do not approve of it. It isn't because it is about sex -- sex can be a very good and loving thing -- but because it is about cruelty or disrespect to women, etc. Maybe his dad could talk about the reasons he doesn't want him to watch such unhealthy portrayals of sex.

And the other topic very appropriate right now is the concept that you can continue to love someone even if you don't approve of all his behaviors. Even if you have to protect yourself from those behaviors, you can continue to love the person and wish him well. This is an especially important topic, I think, if indeed granddad is going to be moving away.

I don't think you should be protecting your son as much as educating him, and preparing him for making his own decisions someday.
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Hi country mouse
You are right it's v complicated by the fact he paid for the building of his annex on my property. I have tried to put myself a million times in his shoes and I think he believes it's his space he can do what he wants. Which I get but he has a complete lack of respect for who else is around and can hear or see what's going on. My son just happens to be v well behaved and honestly doesn't go into grandads flat (anymore since I realised what was going on) he's luckily the kind of kid that does what he's told. My husband had a really stern word about the volume of the porn and said we could all hear it!! Dad has since muted or turned it down but even so if my son is playing football in the garden and sees grandad watching this crap as I did andvhave done on many occasions it's detrimental to his wellbeing and memory of his grandad. I know he's probably depressed etc etc and he has a car, access to go out he watches sport with my brother sees his other grandsons who are 4 and 6 and goes out to lunch with friends so by all means is not stuck indoors.
I also didn't mention that I've had 3 heart operations myself. I work part time and this is putting me under stress I don't need.
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Hi Sendhelp, we are in the UK. Things are a little more complicated in terms of placing an elderly person in assisted living. Unless he could buy a retirement flat (which he couldn't) he'd have to go via the local authority and be on a waiting list for an extra care or sheltered housing flat. Given the circumstances I would expect a higher priority so should not be long but as you probably imagine there's a high demand for accommodation. I'll keep you posted. Huge thanks again.
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I must admit, sadly, that I think it's pretty naïve to imagine that a typical 11 year old boy hasn't seen more porn by now than all of us put together. It's *everywhere* online, and they start a lot younger than 11.

Which is godawful, I know. I'm not happy about it. But just think of the spam emails even we female fogeys get - wanna hook up tonite? I am cute 24 yrs old just waiting to c u ;)

And I think primly "I'm sure you're NOT waiting to see me." And hit Junk. But if I were a nine year old boy I wouldn't, and then what?

None of this makes it okay for your father to be setting a diabolical example for your son. His having paid for the annexe complicates matters. The alcohol complicates matters. His having no legs and a lot to be depressed about and not much access to more constructive pastimes complicates matters.

Are there any well set-up facilities nearby for people who aren't especially old? If you've got a better alternative to offer it will make it a heck of a lot easier to move him.

How is your son appearing to handle the home situation? Please don't tell me he thinks Granddad is cool (wail!).
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Come back, let us know the results of any actions you are able to take.
There is no condemnation if you are unable to do something to get him out right away. You and your hubs should be in agreement on how to move forward.
Spring break may allow you to send child to a camp or retreat until you decide what to do. I wouldn't advise allowing a child's presence while these changes take effect.
You can start a new question if you need to.
Exploring placement with others on this forum who have been there may help you. Have you heard of six-pack homes (six beds)?
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Thanks to rainmom , sendhelp and geewiz for your responses. I'm so glad I found this site just talking really helps. You are all right and have reiterated what I knew deep down I have to do. All the best to you all here.
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A person using the same wifi access point in-house can view just about anything-never underestimate an 11 y.o. with a computer.
Find that assisted living place today, move him tomorrow.

You are actually permitting criminal activity in your home with children present. If you called 911, they may arrest your father, or maybe even yourself. Well, this is not going to happen, but you get the urgency.

Forget the embarrassment, place Dad right away. You take Dad on an outing...In the meantime, ask your hubs to remove t.v., internet, computers, dvd's, dvd player, any weapons, magazines from Dad's room, don't even try sorting...put them in a storage locker. When he gets angry, tell him he is moving anyway in the next few days, you are just helping him pack up.
Be strong, try not to avoid or delay the inevitable. I understand how you are embarrassed and angry, and protective of your son.
You are a Mom! You go for it Mom! You can do this, your home, your rules.

Sorry that your Dad is very ill.
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Lene, illnesses do terrible things and it is often hard to see the parent that used to be there. My thoughts are with you and I am sending hugs your way.
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My dad has an assisted car (hand controls instead of pedals) so he drives to local shops and buys his own shopping/vodka etc. He watches the porn on a DVD player. I had no idea what we were taking on when he moved in. Really was just trying to do the right thing and take care of him as he was not coping alone at home.
My Husband is very supportive but he is at the end of his tether and as angry and disappointed as I am. The worst thing is just this Monday morning I went in saw my dad to check how he was said I was going to plant some stuff in the garden which is just outside his patio doors which have no net curtains and I looked around from the garden he had hard core porn on! I was feet away from him in full view! I flipped and went in calmly Gave him an ultimatum. To get rid it get out. My brother supports my decision. I've also spoken to his GP re his drinking. I feel like I e lost my father and as awful as this sounds just wish he'd pass away. I know that sounds terrible but he's not the man I used to think he was.
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Give a time frame for move out date and stick with it. In the meantime, how is your dad accessing supplies of vodka? Can you stop deliveries of same? Can you use parental controls to limit tv stations that dad is accessing? Is he hooked in to your TV access? Good luck this is NOT a healthy situations for anyone.
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It's a tough position to be in, that's for sure. As you clearly understand- your son is the priority.

I appreciate that you're keeping your son away from your father - but never underestimate the cleverness and the determination of an eleven year old mind. Chances are he's got an idea that there's something going on in grandpa room that he's not supposed to know about or see. That's just makes it all the more irresistible to the young inquiring mind! I was a terrible snoop at that age, that's for sure. God forbid he finds some porn,  shows it to a friend when you and gramps aren't around - and the friends parents find out about it. That is a potential poop storm of epic proportions! And what about coming across grandpas booze?!!  The temptation?  Nothing like a drunk 11 year old!

You know what needs to be done - bite the bullet and forge ahead! Your son and and future female friend, girlfriend or wife, will thank you for it!
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Thanks for your replies. I am appalled, embarrassed and disgusted that my own Dad behaves like this. My number 1 priority is my son and the more I think of this the angrier I get that he has put me in this position. I keep my son well away from my Dads living space but you are all right it's time for him to move out. I'm saddened that it's come to this but his loss and he has choices on how to behave. Thanks again for replying.
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Also you could end up investigated by child protective services for abuse. Not a risk I would take with my child. Pornography with under age child? Possible under age pornography on computer? Federal jail time? Sorry dad nope.
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I'm a pretty liberal thinker - but I was also raised by a hard core - no pun intended- feminist. Have you ever seen what today's pornographic movies are like?!! A little naked hanky panky is one thing. But the rank, disgusting, disrespecting, mistreatment of women in porn these days ought to be illegal.

First amendment and all of that gives the right for that garbage to be out there - but seriously? With an 11 yr old boy in the house you owe it to him and any future relationship he may have - to demand an end to the porn - PERIOD. Get your father into assisted living. If you had toxic mold growing in your house, you would get it cleaned up and not risk exposure to your son. Same thing.
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