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I need suggestions on how to show in detail the daily living expenses for my love one. I am told all expenses should be for her care and I don't know how to show the expenses like utility and groceries since we do that as a family?


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Marty: Since the list is for a non-contributing sibling, why then should you even prepare it? Is it court ordered at this juncture?
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Reply to Llamalover47
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Just make sure the account numbers, credit card, ATM numbers, and any confidential numbers (Driver's license, Soc. Sec. number, Property tax, Medicare, any health insurance, car insurance acct. numbers) are redacted from any receipts openly shared with a sibling. imo.

The goal is to prevent CC use by another person, or to prevent having the ability to open an account in the elder's name.

Yes, even a sibling.
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Reply to Sendhelp
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Everyone has given you good info, but if I hear correctly you have an accusative and buttinsky sibling. I can imagine what your private thoughts might be - and I find myself thinking them on your behalf - whether you are really thinking them or not. So, tongue in cheek - why don't you invite said sibling over for a detailed "look-see". Just for one month's expenses. During that month, split hairs and make the reporting as detailed (and boring and long) as you can. Present it to said sibling and MAKE them read it and discuss it with you. I am guessing that if presented by you with an offered opportunity to "help" prepare every month's report - by handing the sibling all the receipts and having them do the report along with you - they will soon tire of it, and leave you alone. JUST A THOUGHT - AGAIN, TONGUE IN CHEEK, BUT WHO KNOWS - IT JUST MIGHT GET THEM OFF YOUR BACK FOR GOOD. It would be a pain in the neck to do this, but I think you would be rewarded in the long run with peace in your life.
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Reply to pollinatorlady
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I haven't read all the answers so hopefully I am not repeating someone else.
Before my mil moved in with us, we had a lawyer prepare a rental/care agreement. My mil pays a reasonable amount for rent and board, as well as transportation to doctors,and etc. We came up with the amount of $900. She had been living in an independent situation that provided 2 meals and housekeeping services 2x per month plus as needed for about $1500 so we thought $900 was very fair.
I have not had to keep detailed records but I do keep receipts for anything out of the ordinary, for example, she eats yogurt and has a nutritional shake everyday. We do not share these items so I use her debit card to buy them and the shared food or household items come from the rent/care. Hope this might help.
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Reply to anonymous571675
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Marty30 Jan 31, 2019
Thanks for the input
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Ooo, Marty. I feel for you.

I have just flashed straight back to being taken to task for overtipping my mother's manicurist. Deep breaths!

1. The sibling, unless authorised to make such enquiries, can (as my daughter would put it) "sit on this and spin."

2. However. In the interests of family harmony and transparent governance, you may find it more helpful to respond positively.

3. Is the sibling asking out of a pure spirit of enquiry and with a view to making constructive suggestions? Or, is the sibling harbouring suspicions and bent on giving orders?

4. Not that it matters, except that the latter is harder to keep your temper with.

5. Either way: basic maintenance expenses such as utilities, entertainment, groceries etc you show as a proportion of the household budget. Individual purchases are most easily recorded if you use a dedicated credit card for the purpose; you can then offer statements to the inquisitive sibling if s/he still wants to know. Keep receipts, of course.

6. You may also freely mutter to yourself "think you can do better you're welcome to try" along with any epithets that spring to mind; but do try to do this step in private. The important thing, after all, is to make the sibling sit down and shut up.
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Reply to Countrymouse
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Oh, a sibling. I would just do it monthly. Then divide it by the days in the month for an average daily or even weekly.
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Reply to JoAnn29
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Marty30 Jan 31, 2019
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Do you really have to show daily? Really, do you have to break down a pkg of depends that she uses x amount a day. Why not monthly. It would be so much easier. Meds are a monthly thing so ur breaking it down to 1 pill a day at $1.00.

Monthly would be so much easier. If you need to show utilities then you take the monthly bill and divide it by how many live there. Same with food. Her prescriptions are usually monthly. Buying her clothes, new shoes, glasses, they need to know this daily? I would not want to be the person who has to look at this statement. All the person has to do is take the monthly totals and divided by 30/31. Thats the average daily expediture.

Again, who is requesting this info.
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tacy022 Jan 30, 2019
I did because the elders believed that the 200 per month they contributed for food, toiletries, cleaning suppies, etc. was too much to spend and they complained about financial exploitation because they thought it should cost 50 to 100 monthly.
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When it came to food and utilities, my accounting was more complicated. When I went to the store, there were 3 receipts mine, community and theirs. The community food was in an inventory account and costed out based on meals daily so if I used a cup of flour, it was adjusted to who consumed what. Phone, cable and internet...I paid internet but charged elders for all phone related expenses because I had no access to a landline and cable was split based on charges (the bill ran between 800 and 1000 due to phone calls to Europe and just pressing buttons which caused pay per view charges so it wasnt chump change). A meter was put in to monitor power usage in different areas.

I dealt with idiots though so my records were given to family and the elders to show what that whopping 200 a month paid for. Most agencies do not expect as much detail.
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Marty30 Jan 30, 2019
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like you it’s a sibling questioning the expenses but will not contribute to anything...
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I agree that figuring out what proportion of utilities and groceries are down to your mother can be tricky.

As a rule of thumb, say she's living with you, spouse and 2.1 small children, then 20% of the shared household bills would make sense and normally satisfy the standard civil servant or tax official. She is one person of five, therefore she contributes one fifth of the total.

Of course, this is pretty broad brush. She may eat a lot less food but be very heavy on the heating; her bathing and laundry may be well above average, but on the other hand if you have teenagers showering four times a day and running the drier for a single pair of jeans (mea culpa, sorry mother) perhaps her share pales by comparison.

You could, if you want to be punctilious about it, go back three to five years, look at what your bills were before she moved in, and see if she's had much impact on them that isn't accounted for in other ways. You'll probably find it just confirms your original ballpark figures, but then that's reassuring too. By and large what authorities are looking for is a reasonable estimate, not GAAP professional standards.
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Marty30 Jan 30, 2019
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the calculation is for a sibling
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I was advised by experts that in order to quantify living expenses for such items as utilities, mortgage or rent etc. you take the total cost for each item and divide it by the number of people in your household. That resulting fraction represents the legal share of costs attributable to her care. I have been doing that for years on annual reports to agencies, and it has never been questioned as to authenticity. Of course, you need to keep accurate records to back up your accounting. I keep all that info in a separate file in case ever questioned. I even keep all grocery receipts and do the same thing. Total cost divided by number of people in household, represents the amount of the food bill attributable to her care. And, yes, I keep a separate account to document where her other expenses are documented. All of this works for IRS and Medicaid reporting.
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Reply to pollinatorlady
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pollinatorlady Jan 30, 2019
Replying to myself, but actually there was one thing I did not clarify in my reply above. Those to whom you must account for your expenditures on behalf of your loved one are not looking for EXACT figures. Does she actually use an equal fraction of your housing and food and utility expenses? Most usually the answer is NO. But nevertheless dividing total costs by the number of people in the household to determine her share is accepted as the norm. I did it years ago when I sheltered 3 young children, and I am doing it again for my sister-in-law who is dependent on us for her care. It is really a no muss, no fuss method of accounting. Just keep receipts for if you are ever asked to provide documentation. I never have, but still keep all receipts.
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What is the list for? Income tax prep?
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Reply to Llamalover47
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Marty30 Jan 31, 2019
The list is for a sibling
who is wanting to be sure mom’s money is being spent only for her care... but meanwhile they’re not contributing to it in any way
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This depends a LOT on the circumstances.
If this is for court because you are a Guardian ALL expenses must be reported and accounted for.
If this is for tax purposes the best thing to do would be consult the person that prepares your or your loved ones taxes. And if you are paying for things from your funds find out if this person can be declared a "dependent"
If this is for Medicaid, again check to see what can and can not be included.
There is such a wide variety of reasons that receipts must be kept it is difficult to say...this is why and what needs to be reported and or saved. (one of the reasons Elder Law Attorneys can charge so much...and why Tax Prep is such a big business.)
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Reply to Grandma1954
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Marty30 Jan 31, 2019
Thanks
the list is for a sibling who wants to know if mom’s money is being spent solely for her care
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Groceries and utilities are not what they’re talking about. They are talking about prescriptions, medications even if they’re over the counter if ordered by the doctor. Supplies, and that means depends, pads, skin creams, etc., parking fees for medical appointments, non-emergency medical transportation if used, Dr. visit co-pays, medical expenses not covered by your insurance, any hired caregiver expenses. if the property is in her name then the taxes paid for the mortgage, The tax accountant fees, your DMV registration that is registered in her name that little portion that’s a tax write off. All this information can be put together in an Excel spreadsheets. I would make a separate spreadsheet for each category. You can submit that to your tax accountant. Keep all receipts of everything you are claiming in case there is an audit. Contact me if you have anymore questions, I did this for five years . Good luck
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Reply to Lizhappens
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Lizhappens Jan 29, 2019
Reading other peoples answers, I should say it depends on what state you live in. Download from the Internet your state and federal Tax laws regarding this. I know in California the writing off of the utilities and the room would not fly. Again good luck
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When I did mom's care I kept a separate credit card for her expenses & found this very helpful - I used it for items purchased solely for her use & wrote across it :FOR MOM" in permanent marker - luckily it was different colour which helped me keep it separate

As to utilities then I would take the number of people in the house & divide the bill by that number - so if electricity bill is $200 a month & 4 people live there then it is $50 per person

The same for food [include cleaning products] as there are items that are just for her while other items she doesn't eat & it evens off - this assumes she has no special diet & if that is so use the credit card for those purchases - her depends etc should be an expenses for her only

Keep all those paper bills - I saw a woman who did this with a short accordion folder [from dollar store] with a separate slot each month so this would be an easy way to buy 1 each year & store away at end of year - copy utility bills & keep them here too - if anyone questions you later you will look organized & they will readily see you as open in this matter

Rent for the room can be harder to figure out - 1 way would be to check going rate in your area then take your mortgage payment & divide it by the number of rooms in your home minus service areas [kitchen, bathrooms, hall, laundry] so 'living areas' so if monthly payment of $1500.00 with 5 rooms [3 bedrooms, tv room, & living room] would equal $300.00 per month -then compare those figures to see if they are close if not then seek professional help
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Marty30 Jan 31, 2019
Thanks
for the great information
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Also, my Dad has his own car and I have mine and when I go get stuff for him I use his car and when he runs out of gas I fill it up and put the receipt in the January 2019 receipt envelope. In 2017 year when I was caregiving for my Dad I was using my car to get stuff for him and me and starting seeing a huge gas bill and went into debt and realize I was not being compensated for gas to get stuff for my Dad. So to now I use my Dads car/gas to get stuff for him and this has even out the expenses.
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Marty30 Jan 31, 2019
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If your love one has a credit card and you sign up with the card company to also have access to it in order to buy what is needed for them that would be the easiest to keep track of exactly what the expenses are each month. Also, if your love one just like to give cash to you in order for you to buy stuff for them set up a 10 x 12 catalog envelope and write at the top January 2019 receipts and whenever you buy something for them just throw in the cash receipt in the envelope. That is what I do and it works great. If you are using your own credit card set that credit card to be used only for your love one and use another credit card for your personal expenses. When January is over just file away the 10 x12 envelope and start with a new month.
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Reply to Deniese
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If this is for the court cause you have been apppinted guardian, there should be a set format / document that is to be used along with a how-to handbook given to you. The format will be pretty specific to how this court runs and will likely have a required precisely done final page that is an “orders” paragraph with signature. You can call the administrative assistant for the judge to ask for it and for a sample of how other guardianship have done this. You may have to actually go to the courthouse to get it as the sample may need to be redacted of financial info (like the wards bank account # or SS# or other financial #s).

If this is for court, you have to, have to get it filed by whatever time frame is required.

Courthouse staff I’ve found is super knowledgeable and helpful. & if you have to go to CH, try to go in AM on day judge is not in session and take low bills cash just in case there’s a xeroxing charge or other fee.
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Reply to igloo572
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Marty30 Jan 31, 2019
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it’s for a sibling who is wanting to know how mom’s money is being spent
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Wild guess here you are a Guardian for you loved one.
If this is the case often the court will tell you how much of each bill can be expensed. If this was not spelled out then I would divide each bill by the number of people in the house. (this would include gas, electric, internet, lawn service, plow, paper) Any expenses that are hers alone would be hers alone for example wipes, gloves, ointment, disposable briefs would all be her expenses.
When you drive her to any appointment the mileage, and gas can be charged to her as well.
Save EVERY receipt, bill even if it is from the drive thru when she wanted an ice tea. (I still find myself saving receipts and my Husband died 2 years ago!) If you are a Guardian every 6 months the expenses will be presented to the court. Not sure how well they look through them but I did not take any chances I just turned over the paperwork, the bills, the checks I wrote from his account. There was never a problem with what I submitted.
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Reply to Grandma1954
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Marty30 Jan 31, 2019
Thanks great information
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For the utilities and groceries you divide the total expense by the number of people living in the home and allocate the product to each person.

If groceries cost $500/m and there are 5 people in the home then you would expense $100 for Mum's share.

Same with utilities. Unless she does not use one, such as internet, then you would only divide the ones she does use. If however you need the internet to do her banking, and other tasks, then I think it would be reasonable to include her share.
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Marty30 Jan 31, 2019
Thanks great Information
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Who are you trying to show daily expenses to? Does she live in her own home?
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Marty30 Jan 31, 2019
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mom just moved in with my husband and our 3 semi- adult children ( that’s what I call them) :-) last year and I’ve had to get help to help me care etc. And now one of my siblings is wanting to know how her money is being spent
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