How to handle the vultures (aka absent sibling) circling after parent's death?

She actually handled most of the finances all through their marriage and they got on fine - though they'd both tell you he was a saver and she is a spender. Since she's handled everything up to now there aren't any advisors involved - outside of her house and car all the assets are in cash in the bank. The executor is a cousin of my father's - mom did ask the lawyer about changing it (I think to me) but he said there was no need, so she didn't.

Yes, someone please tell me to just fly off into the sunset and hope my mom is well looked after by my sister! Looking at past behaviour I'm not convinced she would be.

Guess I'll go back to my original post in that you'll have to let it all go. Take it all in and find a healthy way to express your anger and frustration. Best thing to do is take the best care of you and let chips fall where they may.

Hmmm, yes, what CM just asked. Shall I be awful and tell you to go back to your old life and let mom and sis muddle through the next bit on their own?

Incidentally, I would have mom's cognitive faculties checked out by a specialist.

Oh boy. Glasker, has your mother ever had to manage money before? Because from your description she's sounding a bit of a financial air-head, if you'll forgive me - like someone who's suddenly had the brakes taken off her spending. Who is advising her about handling her money going forward? And who is your father's executor, by the way?

Unfortunately things came to a head today unexpectedly, except it was with my mom rather than my sister. She was talking about the vacation and how awesome it was gonna be for all of them and I asked her politely not to talk about it. Things went on from there (I didnt get into it but she kept going with it with me just sitting there) and she's spent the morning being upset and angry at me in equal measure. She said she can't change my sister (true) and that she knows my sister does nothing (true)...but they still deserve a nice vacation. She has also called one of her friends to tell them how jealous and unreasonable I'm being and how she doesn't want me here at the house anymore. I'm actively househunting and jobhunting now, double the work.

Does therapy help you to remove yourself when the situation is just awful? I'd love to move back to my home but that's overseas and when my mom's condition worsens I won't be a car ride away - and that's the factor I always agonise over.

Glasker, I don't mean to be unkind but it won't do. For whatever sentimental reasons - and I find it hard to imagine that someone who managed finances as well as he evidently did was not fully aware of what commitment he was entering into - your father *did* guarantee your sister's mortgage and that guarantee must be honoured. Your sister needs to get her head out of the sand and be candid with your mother - not to mention grateful to your late father - about what he did for her. It might make her squirm to admit the full extent of it but she might at least have the grace to acknowledge his generosity. If your mother is financially secure - her house bought and paid for, a comfortable pension income - then the life insurance should do what it was supposed to do and cover the mortgage. Depending on the terms of the policy that could even mean "ker-chinggg!!!" for your sister, which might be a bitter pill for you to swallow, but then that's life. It isn't always virtue that gets rewarded.

You don't have to approve of it, but if his life insurance policy underwrote the mortgage then she's not in trouble and she won't lose her house. Which is a good thing (oh yes it is!) that your mother at least will be relieved to hear. Save telling your sister exactly what you think of her principles for later; for now, get this muddle sorted out.

I guess my point is that even with no vulture circling, money has a way of drying up if you treat it like a renewable resource, even when no one is out earning a paycheck. I think this happens more often to those who are in the habit on relying on the earning capacities of others. In any event, it's galling that your mother doesn't get that she thinks that you are the untrustworthy one. Going to therapy will allow you to see the dynamics that are in play and allow you some measure of stepping back and seeing your place in the picture. At least, it did that for me.

A small cation are tale. My ex mother in law was set up quite nicely with my late father in law's pensions, money invested, house paid for, trusted financial advisor. She has 4 brilliant and loving sons. She continued living her modest life, except that she loved to travel (India, China, Vietnam, Cambodia) and insisted on paying each grandchild s first year college tuition. She called my ex one day to say that while all her friends were moving to the local Jewish community's newly built senior community, she wasn't , because she wasn't "eligible". We thought she meant that she had too much money. Early in 2008, she called to say that she was down to her last $250,000, and she was getting worried. My ex checked and realized that the "trusted" financial advisor had all of her money in very safe, but very low performing instruments that weren't producing. Money was then transferred into stocks just in time for the crash.

Someone needs to look after this stuff in an active manner.

Also apologies for the name change - was having trouble logging in on my cell phone and opened a new account.

Thanks for all the input - it's comforting to hear that I'm not the one being unreasonable here (as my mom would say I am). Financially my mom is set, her house is paid for, my dad's pensions tranferred to her, and even without the life insurance she has a lot of cash in the bank as my dad was a saver. So her day-to-day expenses are covered by the pensions and she has a fair chunk in the bank for other things (house repairs, vacations etc.). The life insurance was in place since my parents bought their own house 40 years ago. When my dad went guarantor for my sister he hadn't yet retired as the guarantor had to have a full-time job. From what my mom has managed to get out of my sister he would be liable for 'only the first 60k' (yes, my sister said 'only'!). The reason my mom said she asked me to handle my dad's financial affairs was that she didn't want my sister to know how much money was involved.

I don't have POA in relation to my mom, no-one does. I don't think she'd take kindly to the suggestion, even if it's just a formality to protect her in the future. Now that things have started to sour a little once more between me and my sister I think my mom is suspicious of my motives, and I'm sure my sister is sowing some seeds in that regard. My mom raised the issue of the vacation with me last night and when I said 'where was she the whole time dad was sick' I got a reply that it's hard with a baby (keep in mind neither she nor her husband works and both are fit and healthy). It's hard with a baby but obviously the whole thing was a piece of cake for me because I don't have a baby right?

I'm researching counsellors locally so hopefully will have an appointment later this week or early next week. My gut feeling is to bow out of this now and let whatever is gonna happen, happen. My mom and dad were blind to my sister's ways for years before this even though she's upfront about the kind of person she is. She's become best friends with a spinster aunt of ours in the last 12 months or so as she's hoping she'll get left an inheritance - and she's quite open with mom about it!

Glasker, go and see an independent financial adviser. Take with you the details of your father's life insurance policy, paying special attention to when the policy was taken out in relation to when your sister arranged this mortgage. Was there just the one life insurance policy? How is your mother off financially apart from that? - what about her own home, for example: is that all safely paid for?

Yes, you're being put in the middle of a very dysfunctional relationship between your parents and your sister. It's unfair to you, but you have to protect yourself and your own emotional state. I'd be furious that my sister was getting a vacation after I did all of the work. And her tactic of getting upset and shutting down any discussion of the mortgage stuff is what a child does. She throws a tantrum and your mother lets her!

I'm not sure that your mom has all of her cognitive abilities. If she does, then she's deeply enmeshed with your sister emotionally and can't see the forest for the trees. Just be sure to protect yourself in all of this. It sounds like it will get a lot uglier.

Glasker, there are two trails here. One is protecting your emotional and financial well being. The other is protecting mom. Sounds like she and sis have some kind of enmeshment/enabling thing going on, and you are easily thrown under the bus by mom when it suits her purposes.

In your shoes, I would make sure MOM'S lawyer sees the lay of the land and get back to your career. These folks are only going to take you down with them. There are too, too many stories on here of nice people who tried to do the right thing. Then evil sibling manipulates easily cowed, possibly demented parent into saying she's being abused or exploited by the "good" kid.

I've learned that when someone is confronted with something, or just asked something, and that person becomes defensive and flies off the handle, they usually are hiding something. They have done something that isn't quite right if you know what I mean. Rational people do not act that way. I don't understand how a vacation is in the plans when such things as mortgages need to be figured out. I don't know, sis, if I were you, I might try to find a way to tag along on their little vaca. Or see about cancelling it all together. Sounds like a lot of confusion is going on and fear on your sister's part and she may be emotionally manipulating your mother who then gets so entangled, she doesn't know which way to turn. You say your mom is o.k. in terms of her decision making but I really wonder if she is. I agree with my3kidsok statements. And please, don't let them leave the country together. I don't know how it runs in the UK, but is there some social services agency you can contact or an elder attorney, etc??

Also are you the POA over your mother? You need to get all these things done somehow. Its tough i know, you may have to do some manipulating yourself to protect her and your parents assets.

How could you not be fuming! Oh i would be. If i were you i would get a piece of paper and document all this. The money youve spent. Keep track. The money your mom is giving away too. Can you get bank statements?

Cognitively mom is ok. My dad's death has hit her quite hard and I guess she's a little foggy emotionally, but her decision making skills seem unimpaired. She's changed her position now, apparently I'm jealous of my sister.

I actually feel like this is my fault - there was a lot to sort out after my dad died and various difficulties with the hospital, insurance company etc. My mom asked me to sort it all out and let me do it (and some of it was very difficult as there was some question over the cause of death after he'd been interred without autopsy). I did it because I felt she couldn't and because she asked. And after all that she drops a few thousand bucks taking them on vacation. In a weird way it feels like total slap in the face to me in so much as my mom would let me cut myself in two to help her out and then the ones who do absolutely nothing get a vacation to reward the fact they did nothing to help anyone and in fact made things more difficult. I should have left it all flounder but my conscience wouldn't let me even if I wanted to.

Is your mom cognitively intact? It sounds as though there are longstanding issues between your sister and parents that are going to result in your mother's impoverishment. Two thoughts, either mom is competent and would benefit from seeing a psychiatrist or therapist to sort out what's going on, or if mom is slipping cognitively, she needs legal protection from the vultures.

@Countrymouse I think my mom and dad do feel sorry for her for some reason. She's always played the helpless one if you know what I mean, even though she's smart and could really do anything she put her mind to. The guy she's married to is really not the kind of guy anyone would wish to be married to - she was talking about leaving him just after the baby was born and my parents (and me!) offered her help in doing so if that was what she wanted. He doesn't cheat or beat her or the child or anything like that, but you wouldn't want to hitch your wagon to him if that makes sense? My dad had also given them the entire deposit for their house as a gift and was fuming that if they broke up this guy would walk away with half his hard-earned money.

My parents were/are hard working people, not something-for-nothing people. They were frugal and worked incredibly hard for a lot of years for what they now have. So her lifestyle choice that they both remain unemployed because it's more comfortable to be on welfare didn't sit right with my parents. However they would give them money so, as my mom would say, they don't end up homeless and living back with them!

Regarding the mortgage, that's what the argument yesterday was about apparently. Totally out of character for my dad but he never kept a copy of exactly what he signed. I was living away at the time but according to my mom my sister sold them a story about him being a 'temporary guarantor' and because butter wouldn't melt in my sister's mouth he signed it with no legal advice. Then when the letters started to arrive from the bank keeping him informed that they weren't paying the mortgage he got really worried about it and when I visited home he would ask me what he should do and could the bank take his house etc. I told him he really needed to get a copy of what he had signed, but every time he or my mom would ask my sister she'd fly into a tantrum and start crying/screaming about how unfair it was and they were putting pressure on her etc. which is also what happened yesterday.

When I took my mom to the lawyer so she could get my dad's will and just discuss any formalities I told her she needed to ask his advice on what might happen with my sister's mortgage. There is a kind of urban legend here that the bank has x number of years to purue a deceased guarantor before they can no longer come after the estate, but nothing concrete really. She had to call me in to discuss it with the lawyer as she couldn't get her head round it - and the lawyer said we really needed to see what my dad had signed but that alerting the bank to the fact he has passed away was probably not the best idea (in case they decided to automatically call in the loan and pursue my mom). He said my sister's lawyer would have kept a copy with the house purchase and to ask my sister. Which my mom did yesterday, which then led to my sister's meltdown, and my mom buying them an overseas vacation to make everyone feel better.

I am so with you. Or was..after my sister husband stole 3 figures out of the bank, my sister denied it. She took no part in helping with money, care. Just shady behavior. I decided she made her choice. So the locks on house were changed. Dad did agree however. It was eating me up. 8 months later its gotten easier. They say time heals all wounds. I dont think it will ever be healed. But at least idont dwell on it every single day. Best wishes

Ah. I'd missed that bit.

Is the mortgage provider in the UK? - because as far as I (dimly) remember, life insurance is a requirement and you may find that there is a claim under that policy. When you say he co-signed, was he a guarantor or was he a part-owner of the property? I think you'd better suggest to your mother that she takes a closer look at this - she may need professional advice.

You said your dad co-signed on their mortgage. I'm inclined to think that his death may change the terms of that mortgage. If the co-signer is deceased, he couldn't pay if they didn't.

My condolences on the death of your father, and the troubles with your sister. Who knows why people do things that they do?

Glasker, is there something going on in your sister's life that might make your mother feel sympathetic to her?

If you weren't on close terms before your father's death (my condolences, and please remember that it's very early days for you all) it's extremely difficult for you to confront your sister candidly and ask her what she's trying to accomplish. I imagine - do you suppose? - that her view is that she and her husband are "rallying round" to be supportive of your recently widowed mother. In the ideal world you would look her in the eye and say "you do not accept money from her. Are we clear?" Actually, you might give that approach some thought anyway. She needs to know what her behaviour looks like to the outside observer, because it's not pretty and she needn't think nobody's noticed.

I'm gonna look in to counselling, I think it's the only way for me not to go stir crazy at this point.

They visited today and my mom had some kind of argument with my sister, all I heard was my sister screeching at my mom, and now my mom has booked and paid for a 2 week all inclusive overseas vacation for all of them to go on in a couple of months. I guess my sister and her husband need a break from their hectic lives of doing nothing. Taking deep breaths!

Your mom is putting you in the middle. She is complaining about your sister to you, but won't let you do anything to change the equation - so you're powerless. That's not fair to you. Mom may not be playing you two siblings against each other, but what she is doing is having the same effect.

If mom won't stand up to sister, she either needs to find someone else to complain to (friend or other relative) or you need to get counseling, so that you can manage being in the middle. You're in an impossible emotional position right now. No wonder you're feeling rage and feel like you're going to explode. I would too.

You'll have to really let go of this situation. Otherwise, yes, it will infect you like a cancer. Love of money = root of all evil. Come to terms within yourself about money and envision your Mom giving everything to your sister and bil. Totally not fair but not within your control as you have said. Then let it go. Perhaps you should sell your mom's house and have her live with you if your care for her is real. Not suggesting that it isn't, just pointing out what is really important here (as I know you already feel).

They live on welfare - here in Europe the welfare is quite generous so between unemployment and allowances for their child they make a tidy sum. The husband also does odd jobs and gets money under the table for that so to speak. My parents probably do help them out financially but that's none of my business really.

I've been thinking about bereavement counselling anyway which is kind of where this came from - as I realised that more of my upset in a way comes from what's going on at home as opposed to the fact that my dad is gone if you know what I mean? Not that I'm not sad and missing him, but I could see myself in my head walking into a therapist's office to talk about that and ending up talking about my sister!

I hear bells going off in my head. Mom may not "be the type" to play you off against each other, but she's certainly talking about her sister to you, and it seems she does the same to your sister.

Mom hates confrontation? So what she does is she gives the message to one of you and he's it gets resolved. But what actually happens is you guys end up seeing the other as the bad guy.

I would suggest that getting yourself some therapy might be a wise investment in your own future.

Mom seems to have all her ducks in a row so stop fretting about it. Let BIL knock himself out mowing the lawns he"ll probably get tired of that soon so enjoy it while it lasts. As a matter of interest what are they living on if they don't have jobs?

Regarding my dad's will everything went to my mom so there's no automatic interhitance for us kids. There is life insurance involved and my mom had spoken of maybe giving us some of that when it comes through, but I have no expectation of that as it's my mom's money and she can do whatever she likes with it. Give it all to animal welfare if she so chooses!

I think my sister may feel like I'm pulling the strings and there's a risk that somehow I would manipulate my mom into changing her own will. That wouldn't happen (from my perspective at least) as my mom is in full control of her affairs and her/my dad were always very clear that no matter what things would end up 50/50 between the kids. Her and my dad were very black and white about such things.

The husband is going to show up later to mow the lawns. You know, the lawns I mowed all the time my dad was too sick to do them. He was gonna let himself in while my mom and I were out the other day so he could do some DIY - so my mom locked the house from the inside leaving the key in the door and we went out the back way! He doesn't have a key to the back door ;)