So I created a post several years ago, and wanted to look for help based on the current situation. My father-in-law had a debilitating stroke a few years ago. He can't walk on his own, barely talks and has a feeding tube for nutrition. He has been in a nursing home the past few years, and recently he ended up in the hospital with a UTI. My wife now wants him out of this nursing home, and wants to move him into our home to take care of him. Here are a couple things to keep in mind.
Our house is not wheelchair accessible, bathrooms/hallways are a bit tight.
We have 2 small children that live in the house, she wants to put them into one room so he can have his own room. Or put him into the oldest one's room, he's not pleased with that idea as you can imagine.
No one in his family cares much about him, including his estranged wife and 3 other kids. He has a sister who wishes he was dead. My wife is the only one who wants to take care of him.
My wife is a nurse, and she is under the impression that she'll be able to handle his care 24-7. I know it's going to take 2 people to get him to the bathroom or to change his diaper.
He has no income besides Medicare, about $800 a month, and the nursing home has been using that for the past few years.
Now I've expressed my opinion on the situation, but I don't think she is taking anyone else into consideration. She has already closed his account at the nursing home, and he will soon be release from the hospital. I'm pretty sure she is just going to bring him home. She does not discuss any details with me. I told her that this decision could possibly break apart our family, and she is willing to go that route, BUT we are living on a combined income so I don't see how she would be able to do it on her own, much less with both of us on board. Me personally, I think he has had no quality of life in the past few years. No one has gone to visit him, including my wife. I don't see any way for his condition to improve as it has gotten much worse over the past year. If it was my father, I would have a talk with the immediate family about removing the feeding tube and let him pass. I know that is a hard decision, but lying in bed all day and not seeing anyone ever is awful. I've asked other family members on her side if they would be able to take him in, and of course no one will, they all have excuses. I've asked if they would like to move him to a different facility in their area/states, where he can be closer to them, and no one has stepped up. The facility he was at was a good hour or so from us, it was the closest one available.
Does anyone have any knowledge of what Medicare/Medicaid would cover for caregiving at home? What I saw was 35 hours a week, but not for long term. My wife said that she could be his caregiver, and they would pay her X amount of money, but I didn't hear any other details with that option so I don't know if we could afford that route. My wife would have to quit her current job, so we would be losing half of our income, and with the way everything is costing right now, we can't afford to do that. So I guess, my question is a couple parts. 1, how do I convince her that this isn't an option? Even if money wasn't an issue, I honestly don't think she could handle it. She brought him home for a holiday last year, took care of him for 2 days. After the 2nd day she had to take 2 days off of work because of the exhaustion. 2nd question, does anyone have any real life experience dealing with Medicare/Medicaid for home health care, at home care giving, so I have those facts ready when I try to have a discussion with her? Also note, this has been a very hostile topic, and has caused some knock down drag out fights, some occurring in front of our youngest child. I have told her numerous times, that I do not want this to cause these fights in front of the kids as it's harming them mentally. We've had some issues now with our youngest at school. Please help!
This makes her see what she is asking and doing. It, also, serves as a legal document in the event you end up in divorce court you aren't paying her spousal support. Because she will obviously do whatever it takes to get her own way and she will cry she can't work and you must help her. I have seen tactics like this from women that were setting their husbands up to get fleeced in divorce, so cover you and your children's back on this.
I would encourage you to have the two little ones share a room and give the teenager his own room. Being a teenager is hard enough without living in a room with a dying person. If anyone should share a room with grandpa it is your wife. No comprise on that one, even if you have to share a room with the little one's, the 14 yo freshman gets his own space.
Honestly, I would never marry a person that would put their own children in this kind of situation. Her actions are reprehensible towards her 14 year old, what picking a deadbeat dad wasn't enough punishment, now he gets booted to said deadbeat because she has guilt. Has she always had self-centered characteristics?
I am totally serious in protecting you and you children for divorce. May you never need it but, if you do, you will be ever so thankful to have it. Pictures are good too. We always say, documentation is salvation in court! Then we do everything in our power to avoid the courtroom, all while documenting everything.
Prayers sent for your family and yourself. This must feel like a lead balloon in your head and heart and on your children. May she see the light before she does irreparable damage to all.
It sounds like she is being completely driven by guilt. I wonder what has brought this on? Has she recently found religion or changed churches? Or does she have a new friend who is maybe judgmental? I've had more than one friend inform me "I will never put MY parent in one of those places!" Yet, each of my friends who makes that statement
a. Never spent much time around a sick elderly grandparent and has NO IDEA what is involved
b. Never spent any time around elderly people in a NH environment
I think your wife made the "one month" comment to save face, as someone or something has maybe helped her to see that it is going to be difficult as heck.
Whatever you do, DO NOT ever cave in and help in any way or the "just help me with this" floodgates will open.
Quietly do some research on other nursing homes within a 100 mile radius of you because she will NOT be able to handle him and she will be counting down the days to send him elsewhere.
"But if my father dies without me doing this a large part of me will die. "
"I will never recover from the guilt"
"I’m saying that if I don’t do this the kids will definitely lose their mother"
How do you interpret those statements? And trust me, I'm not doing anything to help her out with him, I can't. My main focus is work and kids.
I am going to start researching other nursing homes within a 100 mile radius, that is great advice..I want her to find one that is suitable for him, so she has a plan of somewhere to send him when she fails.
The feeding tube alone I would not care for my Dad. I also would not be changing his diapers. Now a trach , no way would I care for him but then she is a nurse.
Your wife does not have to be a Nurse working in a hospital. There are insurance companies that hire RNs to go over claims. My daughter is sort of a Salesman now using her expertise.
So sorry you are going thru this. Its a shame she is allowing her children and you to suffer for a man who seems at deaths door.
1) ‘Money is the issue or isn’t an issue’ – 'think separately'. Married couples plan house purchases, new babies, employment options, etc etc, around money. ‘Separately’ is rarely an option.
3) If ‘sick leave was completely caused by 2-day care for her dad’, quitting the care for dad, not ‘quitting job to focus on home care’, is what’s logical and reasonable. She didn't need sick leave after every 2 days at work.
3) Many many nurses have posted how the job is easier than home care - less emotion involved plus going home to your own life after work. No it’s NOT ‘a bit contradictory at reasoning level’. It’s already been explained many times.
4) Sure, kids share rooms all the time. However I have NEVER heard of a 14 year old being expected to share a bedroom with an incontinent old man who needs regular diaper changes.
Freshi, your ‘someone’ is in care, so your experience is limited. Even more limited if you aren’t on a tight budget and don’t have small children. Your idea of thinking logically’ is your own ‘want’, not your own ‘need’.
You said to me that "your ‘someone’ is in care, so your experience is limited. " Can I ask you the same question ---- is your experience unlimited? Everyone's experience is limited cos everyone's situation could be different. That's why his post attracts close to hundred comments from different perspectives. Do you think your suggestions can really solve his problems? Did you really understand the contradiction behind his reasons that I posted? If not, why do we need this kind of argument to begin with?
He can think of whatever perspectives we shared with him in terms of how to CONVINCE her, which means his wife, as a smart and nice person, agrees with his reasons without pressure, which doesn't necessarily imply your thoughts are more helpful than mine beforehand.
As for the room, the OP said two kids can share a room, another option.
You said "Many nurses have posted how the job is easier than home care" Okay you can use this argument only when you assume she doesn't know how to compare this as a nurse herself, doesn't how and when to get help when she is incapable, and at the same time, she is a smart person, described by her husband, that's another contradiction. Do you think a smart person can't figure out the contradictory reasons used for convincing her or pressuring her?
This is a very intricate situation..and I don't think my posts are really providing every detail on what is going on...there is a lot to this story..and I'm realizing that my wife's childhood trauma has a lot to do with it. She has a tremendous amount of guilt associated with leaving her father in a nursing home. Where we live, there are really no nursing homes for long term care, and the ones that do exist are really awful. She is correct that the care he has received has been down right horrible. She is correct that he will probably die very soon if he stays in these homes. Is that a bad thing? If it was me, I would have had a talk with the dad about removing the feeding tube and passing gracefully. But that is their decision.
Many people are suggesting divorce. And divorce will occur if it has too. Things change in marriages, but we have always had a great relationship, have worked hard together, and have built a beautiful family. She is a very good person, she has taught me to not be so negative, and to not talk badly about anyone, which I sometimes have a habit of doing. She is very helpful to others..we have a neighbor who is 80 years old, and needs help every now and then, and my wife is always willing and able to help. I guess her biggest problem is setting her priorities..now let me try to explain HER reasoning for doing this..
My wife is very smart..she knows that his time is coming to pass. She does not want him to pass in these nursing homes, I don't know how she will handle that if it happened. She knows that she will not be able to take care of him..while he may get better care in our house..he will probably get neglected somewhat over time. I want to share a couple quotes directly from her, and maybe that will help give some insight into the situation better.
"Plus I have some emotional baggage that I need to put to rest before my dad dies that is affecting each of my relationships. "
"I’m saying it’s killing me and if I don’t try a last Hail Mary, that our family is already ruined "
So...she basically is saying that she has to do this or our family is ruined...so what are my options.. One, refuse the discharge, and get a divorce..or two allow him into our house, and hope for a miracle. She will most likely get burned out, get sick, and then I'll be the one picking up the slack. He will end up back at the retirement home, and now we are at square one. I think I'm screwed either way, and that is just the hand that I got dealt.
To touch back onto divorce. I went through a horrible divorce from 2014-2017, 3 year custody battle. tens of thousands of dollars spent on both sides...and what was accomplished? absolutely nothing. court orders are not enforceable in our state, so every time the order was broken, you end up back in court where the judges do absolutely nothing. I've gone down this road, and I promised myself before I ever met my current wife that I would never do it again, as it nearly killed me. The mothers have the rights in our county, I know at least 6 other dads that went through the same exact thing as I did, some spending 250k on lawyers. So it's really easy to say, oh go get a divorce and start that process..it will be so much better for the kids...and all it is will be another gamble. You can document all you want, submit all the evidence you could imagine..but that won't change the outcome. It would be better for me to keep the kids in the house, and just keep them busy with school and extra curricular activities and then we can go on weekend trips to friends and family.. Mom will have to stay at home with FIL..and life goes on. Is that the best option? I don't know..is getting 50/50 custody with her better, NO!
Your post just now highlights how you are thinking of EVERYONE in this. Your needs, your wife's need (her guilt issues) your children & FIL's needs too.
However, your wife still has blinkers on - is focused on HER needs only right now. It LOOKS like caring for FIL.. but it may have been kinder for FIL to have end of life conversatiions. For him to decide (if he can) to have or avoid feeding tube & trach. All this saving him in her own home is HER issue driven by HER guilt (based on HER faulty thinking based on trauma). It is good she is starting to see that.
If no good solutions exist, choose the least bad one.
Allowing this 'compromise' for a month.. maybe it IS the least worst.. when you factor in avoiding restraining orders & divorce as priorities. It also gives you zero regrets. Gives your Wife zero leverage to claim you killed her FIL (a real possibility that will destroy your marriage).
A third choice?
Another choice could be have FIL returns to the Nursing Home. Wife can sit bedside there from 7am til 11pm, providing all his personal care needs within the scope of a 'visitor' not an RN. She will be frustrated. Probably rub the staff up wrong. But - can advocate for better care.
On the positive:
1. Your children get to keep their own beds & bedrooms.
The negatives:
1. The children lose a Mother. Until FIL passes. Replacing her care of the children will be costly, with daycare or nanny.
2. No income for your Wife.
If you decide to let FIL in for a month, that's ok. You don't have to think it's backing down or giving in. Call it simply making the LEAST worst decision you could at the time.
Remember you can change track at any time.
The OP will cave on this one month trial. Hopefully it will be enough for her to agree she can't do it.
He should have everything in writing before hand.
So she knows he will not provide any assistance with dad and neither will 14 year old.
Still doesnt solve problem of what will happen to her son with no room. But what's a little collateral damage to a child so she can care for a dead beat father who was never there for her when she was a child.
Something to consider (in addition to Beatty's excellent suggestion)--
Maybe just stop objecting. "Gee, maybe you CAN handle this, honey. I guess you've got all the logistics figured out. I just wonder how the kids are gonna get cared for in all of this. But I'm sure you've got a plan for that. Sounds daft to me, but my job is just to make money. So have at it".
Maybe without pushback, she will be able to admit defeat.
Then there's the matter of the wife's income loss that's likely to force you to file bankruptcy! This situation is not doable and too big a burden for your family to bear. You have to put your foot down hard here, the way I see it, or you stand to watch everything shatter. Your wife is being unreasonable here, plain and simple. She'll need to figure out where else she can take her father outside of the family home to care for him, if she insists on doing so. I guess you'll also have to sell your home since you can no longer afford to live there without her income. She's single handedly chosen to destroy your family's lives with one poor decision!
I'd go speak to a divorce lawyer immediately if I were you. This is not teamwork going on here, but horrible selfish decisions your wife is making that border on mental illness, imo. Who ignores their family's well being in favor of a bedbound elder who's got a trach and is on a feeding tube? Her delusion that she can care for him alone at home when she can't even manage to work her paid JOB is the real issue here.
I am truly sorry for the nightmare your family is being subjected to here. My condolences on all of your losses.
So it's been 3 years since he's had his stroke, but we have only really fought about moving him in over the past maybe year, some fights were big, but there weren't many..because he would go in and out of the hospital, covid, etc. etc..so it hasn't been 3 years of constant battle..hell i would have sold the house and moved to the Caribbean if that was the case.
I'll be having the wife bunk with her father, and remove the 14 year old from his room. honestly, we have a large house..den, office, big bedrooms, unfinished 20x20 attic space..so myself and the 2 kids will be shielded from this mess. She wont' last a week, but see my other posts on what she is saying about she has to try or she can't live with the guilt.
I won't need to file bankruptcy, my house is completely paid off..and I can make more $ if i need to. I've never relied on her income, but it definitely helps to make life easier when she has an income. Now she is claiming that medicaid/medicare is going to pay her $30/hr @ 40 hrs a week to be her fathers RN..she showed me the payroll schedule. Now, if she doesn't make comparable money to her last job, then she will have to go find a new line of work. See my post about divorce and lawyers..not a path I need to take right now... I'm trying to just stay positive for the sake of the kids...we are a few days from christmas, and I want it to be an enjoyable one..we live in a beautiful area..and I'm praying to God that it all works out. Before this ordeal with her father, I never saw her act this way at ALL..we renovated 2 houses together, and if you've ever done that with a spouse it really really tests your relationship, and I'm talking a complete renovation from hurricane destroyed homes. She is suffering mentally..I've made an appointment with a therapist for 1/2, hopefully a professionally can speak some truth to her, but who knows..I really don't trust the professionals.
That is way w…a…y unusual, cause if the person is assessed to need full time care that tends to mean they need to be in a facility that have 24/7 observation. Most States run IHHS with a max # of hrs allowed to be in the 32 hr range. However there are a couple of areas that go above this, like NYC, as costs of care in a facility are higher and availability limited, so doing in home is the more cost efficient path for the State and they can bring in 2 caregivers if need be as they can’t go into overtime.
FilL assessment is the key as to what the State will allow.
Also imo y’all should look into getting him on hospice if he can be deemed eligible. Hospice is 100% MediCARE. It will provide someone coming in for 3-5 hrs 2-3 times a week. Wife will have to butt out of what hospice does as they run their own show so to speak. That might be an issue for her, both for having others providing care (ruins her “only I can do” this illusion) & she would have to accept he’s terminal.
My empathy for your 14 yr old. Getting kicked out of his room over the Holidays and in middle school. That sux’s for him & big time. Redo that 20 x 20 attics space for the kid & asap.
I hope you have a plan for when she becomes overwhelmed & cracks.
She has doctors appointments, there’s only you to watch dad.
Shes watching dad, so you’ll have to go shopping for his diapers, pads and prescriptions.
She just wants you to roll him so she can clean the bed or him without being injured herself.
So, then, accept that you are agreeing to be a shared partner in what will be through the end of this man’s life, as versus a one month max where she does everything all by herself.
Seems your wife needs this to help with some childhood trama. Maybe prove to herself that her father loves her. She just needs to hear those words. Really, with all thats wrong with him, I doubt if he is going to live much longer. Another stroke may do him in. Seems something she needs. Maybe she will agree to Hospice coming in.
If your State Medicaid will pay your wife $30 an hour, 40 hrs a week, you have good Medicaid. This usually is not the case.
I think at this point you need to give in. Your last post says that allowances can be made. Maybe tell her you will agree if Hospice is allowed to come in. If they can give you an aide for more than an hr, thats her down time to spend with you and the kids or just relax. If Dad has any money, hire someone to sit with Dad while u do something as a family, Maybe she will settle down just knowing he is near by and she is caring for him. Tell her that with him there, it should give her time for her kids. Dad does not need her all the time. Have boundries. Time for compromise even if not 50/50.
I would talk to the doctors seeing FIL. Ask what his prognosis is. Ask about Hospice. If they agree, they see no hope for Dad. I think all this will be easier when your aware that ur FIL has limited time on this earth. That this won't drag on for years. You wife needs this.
First update. I created a "contract" last night which has about 10 requirements on it. I've asked my wife to sign it, so we at least are on the same page with alot of the matters associated with her dad moving in. Examples of the requirements would be:
Providing me proof of income from Medicaid/Medicare
Providing me a plan for when/if this fails
Providing me a time to have a zoom meeting with any other involved family members.
Her sharing the room with her dad
Providing me a list of her roles/task with our family
Defining what "failure" will be
Etc. etc..
She has agreed to provide these details. She has said that most likely he will be transferred out of state to either her brothers or stepmoms state where there are more nursing facilities. She continues to say that she just wants to spend some time with her dad before he goes.
I don't see her allowing hospice into the situation. I see this failing fairly quickly and then having to move him out...my main concern right now is having a solid back up plan for when it does fall apart, and then having counseling setup for myself, my wife and then the kids.
I made her well aware that if her income does not meet a certain amount, then FIL is moving out and she will need to find a job that matches her last employer. She is fully capable of working as a nurse, from home or in a medical office. She has student loans for her nursing degree that need to be paid off, and so that will not be left entirely on me. And if she has the endurance to take care of her father, then she can definitely go out and get a job.
I asked her when exactly is her dad getting discharged, and she said she doesn't know yet. One of the requirements in the contract was that I be included in any current and future dialog with the hospital, medicaid/medicare, social workers, etc etc.. I also requested all previous correspondence with those people, as well as with her other family. I will be recording the zoom meeting with her family, and I'm going to be putting them on notice since they need to be involved and start carrying some of the weight of their father. If they don't want any involvement, I'll get a record of that, and they are no longer involved in anything to do with him. We have been dealing with him for the past 3 years, and no one has done anything.
I have asked my wife what HER dad WANTS, not what she wants..And she stated that he wants to spend time with his family and grandkids..I know that he doesn't enjoy being in a nursing home where he never gets any visitors, but he also needs to realize the burden he is putting only on his daughter and her family.
Our 14 year old is flying out for Xmas to see his Dad and family, so he will have a good time. I've already told him that he will NOT be sharing a bedroom with his grandad, and he was excited. Like I mentioned, we have a large house, and I can make him a bedroom out of my office, while I finish out the attic space. It really just needs sheetrock and paint, already has lighting, fan, heating/cooling, etc..we will make it work. Best part is, my wife will have to help out with that, as that has been our plan since we bought the house.
Anyways, I hope everyone has a great Xmas..thank you all for your post, comments and advice..I really appreciate it.
Sounds like that will be quite difficult and may take a long time. What happens in the meantime? (I think FIL will stay in your home.)
I like your idea of defining failure and having her put it is writing.
I would really like to know exactly why your wife is so guilt ridden about not leaving her father in a nursing home. I don't need a detailed explanation of her childhood, I'm just wondering why this is such a sticking point for her. I am assuming he bailed her out of some terrible situation and she feels the need to pay him back?