So I created a post several years ago, and wanted to look for help based on the current situation. My father-in-law had a debilitating stroke a few years ago. He can't walk on his own, barely talks and has a feeding tube for nutrition. He has been in a nursing home the past few years, and recently he ended up in the hospital with a UTI. My wife now wants him out of this nursing home, and wants to move him into our home to take care of him. Here are a couple things to keep in mind.
Our house is not wheelchair accessible, bathrooms/hallways are a bit tight.
We have 2 small children that live in the house, she wants to put them into one room so he can have his own room. Or put him into the oldest one's room, he's not pleased with that idea as you can imagine.
No one in his family cares much about him, including his estranged wife and 3 other kids. He has a sister who wishes he was dead. My wife is the only one who wants to take care of him.
My wife is a nurse, and she is under the impression that she'll be able to handle his care 24-7. I know it's going to take 2 people to get him to the bathroom or to change his diaper.
He has no income besides Medicare, about $800 a month, and the nursing home has been using that for the past few years.
Now I've expressed my opinion on the situation, but I don't think she is taking anyone else into consideration. She has already closed his account at the nursing home, and he will soon be release from the hospital. I'm pretty sure she is just going to bring him home. She does not discuss any details with me. I told her that this decision could possibly break apart our family, and she is willing to go that route, BUT we are living on a combined income so I don't see how she would be able to do it on her own, much less with both of us on board. Me personally, I think he has had no quality of life in the past few years. No one has gone to visit him, including my wife. I don't see any way for his condition to improve as it has gotten much worse over the past year. If it was my father, I would have a talk with the immediate family about removing the feeding tube and let him pass. I know that is a hard decision, but lying in bed all day and not seeing anyone ever is awful. I've asked other family members on her side if they would be able to take him in, and of course no one will, they all have excuses. I've asked if they would like to move him to a different facility in their area/states, where he can be closer to them, and no one has stepped up. The facility he was at was a good hour or so from us, it was the closest one available.
Does anyone have any knowledge of what Medicare/Medicaid would cover for caregiving at home? What I saw was 35 hours a week, but not for long term. My wife said that she could be his caregiver, and they would pay her X amount of money, but I didn't hear any other details with that option so I don't know if we could afford that route. My wife would have to quit her current job, so we would be losing half of our income, and with the way everything is costing right now, we can't afford to do that. So I guess, my question is a couple parts. 1, how do I convince her that this isn't an option? Even if money wasn't an issue, I honestly don't think she could handle it. She brought him home for a holiday last year, took care of him for 2 days. After the 2nd day she had to take 2 days off of work because of the exhaustion. 2nd question, does anyone have any real life experience dealing with Medicare/Medicaid for home health care, at home care giving, so I have those facts ready when I try to have a discussion with her? Also note, this has been a very hostile topic, and has caused some knock down drag out fights, some occurring in front of our youngest child. I have told her numerous times, that I do not want this to cause these fights in front of the kids as it's harming them mentally. We've had some issues now with our youngest at school. Please help!
hugs…hope she realizes family impact.
So should this happen, it’s when a definite decision has to be made:
- he stays at the facility and goes from rehab patient (MediCARE) and segueways to become a LTC resident (LTC Medicaid or private pay or LTC insurance). If he was on LTC Medicaid before, it may make the paperwork easier OR he could face having to have a new LTC Medicaid application done.
if this is a new facility for him, they may want your wf to sign off financial responsibility on him. Y’all are married so should things go bad, it’s joint debt.
OR
- he exits the facility to live at a family member’s home.
Your bride is not acting reasonably. I’d be real concerned that she will sabotage his rehab stay; that she become even more hyper on the “only I know what’s best” mantra. When the patient or family gets like this, the staff isn’t going to try to change their minds. Staff isn’t going to coddle a patient; they’ll be nice but if your not making an effort to participate in the care plan, well in my experience your toast on staying in rehab. They can’t as Medicare is really strict on having to have in detail just how the patient is progressing. MediCARE will cover up to 100 days in rehab but pt has to, HAS TO, be measurably progressing.
Try to have a word with the SW & PT regularly at the rehab / NH as to how things are going so that you and the kids are not gobsmacked to find out that grandpa moving in manana. Good luck.
First off, I want to say THANK YOU to everyone who has posted, whether it's advice or criticism or just well wishes, I truly appreciate. It has helped me tremendously with dealing with this situation. So thank you!
Next, I have my first online counseling appointment today. I think this was really needed for myself, as I've been experiencing quite a bit of anxiety and depression from this. I would like to get my wife involved, and possibly the kids, but I felt that this was the first step.
This is a busy time of year for us, with 4 kids all in different grades and schools, you can only imagine how much stuff is going on. Homecoming, plays, school projects, after school activities...you name it, there is always something going on. Even though we only have 2 of the kids living with us, I'm involved with my other two as much as I can be. I am the one who does the school projects, transportation to and from school, etc...so if I'm not working, I'm doing what a dad is supposed to do.
Update on my wife, and this is sort of a big one. So her work is understaffed like a lot of places are now a days. Well, they have been working her about 7 days in a row, with maybe a day or two off after. She ended up getting completely exhausted, got sick and ended up going to the Dr. where she was treated and is now feeling better. Down side to this is, she has missed work, and is now behind on her charting. So then her work grounds here, so she can catch up on the charting. This impacts us financially as he paycheck will probably less than half of what it normally is. I can't get frustrated with her, as I witnessed how much she had to work, and I wasn't surprised when she got sick. Her work HAS hired on some new nurses to help with the load, and has promised that they won't load up my wife as much as they have (they can't really). Now, there is a small part of my brain that thinks the timing of all of this could be intentional. Meaning, is my wife not catching up in a quick manner, attempting to get fired? Making it where she is at home, and available to take care of her Dad? Not a good option, considering we rely on her income, and if she thinks that Medicare/Medicaid is going to pay her to take care of him, she is wrong. We've all agreed on that on this forum.
So if I was to guess, I'd say FIL has about 2-3 weeks left at short term NH before he gets discharged. My goal is to get some help through therapy and then involve my wife so that everything is out on the table, open communication, full transparency. I'm hoping that the therapist that I was assigned can understand this situation and has some help for the both of us. What I want to avoid, is having my wife think that I am just trying to have this counselor change her mind, or feel like we are ganging up on her. I honestly don't think that anyone is going to be able to convince her, and that the only way she is going to realize that this is going to work is to actually live it out. And while my main concern is the kids, I've talked to them and have been prepping them for this scenario, and I know they won't have to go through much of it as it will fail quickly. I know there will be resentment for her making this decision without considering myself or the kids, and that will need to be addressed as well. I ultimately want to work together to work through this, as I know it's a tough situation, but I'm confident we can get by it. I really wish I had the support of her own family, I'm really disappointed in the fact that they aren't disagreeing with her decision, and I don't know if I'll be able to respect them in the future because of it. Well, I think that's it for now..I'm running out of characters, and it's time to get to work. Thanks again everyone, I promise to keep you all updated.
Also, I haven't read the entire thread, but I think it's only fair that at the very least you demand she have a concrete back-up plan for when this fiasco fails. She can't just go down one day and expect someone else (read: you) to pick up the pieces until another nursing home has an opening for him.
And I agree with MJ that if she cant do her job how does she expect to take care if her father 24/7.
I hope you refuse when she asks for help toileting and caring for dad. Because you know that's going to happen.
She doesnt even have the energy to take care of her own kids.
Whether you acknowledge it or not this thing with her father will forever change your marriage. Especially when you refuse to help her with dad. She sounds like the type of person that will blame you and resent you for not helping her.
I hope you stay single after this is all said and done.
And yes, unfortunately you are 100% correct..our relationship is forever damaged..it's unrepairable, and there is resentment on both sides now.. is it fixable? i dont know...she would have to change in a major way...what happens when dad passes? heck she blames me when he gets a UTI...
But here is the thing..and I learned this from the therapist I was talking to..she probably isn't thinking clearly because she is grieving..before all of this mess..we never had any issues..we worked hard together renovating a house..started a family together...laughed together, loved each other...its really a bummer, and im truly heart broken over the whole situation..i want it to work out, because I do love her.
Your plans sound very good -
increasing communication & maintaining the children as the priority.
Your wish may well be to talk your wife around... but the first goal, done with honesty, may be for you BOTH to have a say. This should avoid her feeling 'ganged up on' as you say.
Then for her to really HEAR your view.
The next aim may be for her to realise if she continues with her current wish, there will be consequences - ones she will NOT like.
Once she GETS that - she will free herself to make new wishes!
Best of luck 🤞
If I would have known that she would be taking care of her invalid father, i would not have married her..I'm sorry..I'm all for helping your parents as they age..but her dad is in bad shape..there is NO ONE person that can take care of him..and she is being down right selfish as she will be neglecting our 5 year old during his early years of child hood.
I like how you've handled most of this so far. However, a lot of your foredrawn conclusions are based on incorrect logic. For instance, you are not losing "half your income". First of all, I seriously doubt she contributes half although I could be wrong. Second, you would be losing "her part of our income but gaining whatever the insurance pays us for care giving." Like someone said, there is too much fluidity in your facts, meaning that you angle facts to frame your point-of-the-day, sometimes using the same facts for several different, mutually exclusive reasons.
You said you lost income when she was too sick from working double time, but you failed to present all the double time she earned! C'MON. We aren't stupid readers, man.
You can't stop the feeding tube because it wouldn't be in place unless he expressly asked for life-saving end-of-life measures. That is HIS choice, not the family's. When you are 90, you'll be grateful that YOU got to decide in advance with your directive or POLST document, what your end-of-life wishes are.
If your wife is an Aries, it's best for her do it. It's the only way she'll sort this out.
If her dad is not obese, or is thin, his care should not be too exerting.
Wherever he ends up, he won't get UTIs if someone puts cranberry medicine in his food, if that is possible. Cranberries prevent bacteria from attaching in the urinary region.
There are a lot of things wrong with most of the responses you got. A lot of the reasoning in the responses is myopic, fear-based, racist (one), and mysogynistic. Many responses violated the whole spirit of marriage, of teamwork.
Being a nurse is very hard work. If she's had it, she's had it. Let her be. Maybe her capacity is not the same as before Covid. Tell her if she wants to change careers, you would support it if it's financially possible. Tell her she wouldn't have to use her dad as the rationale to get out of her job, if that's important to her.
Return the puppy and kitten. Those were mistakes. What were you thinking. They should have waited until after this crisis settles down.
Can't you enlist any niece or nephew as a backup plan? I've never known anyone cared for by their siblings. It's usually by the grandchildren or nieces/nephews.
Don't worry about your bathroom. I've dealt with some really small bathrooms. It can be done. However, it sounds to me like he'll be on piddle pads and disposable briefs. You can order a "commode" for bedside. It is basically a toilet with frame bars to hold onto, & no plumbing. The container is lined (most people do) and emptied. He can urinate into a urinal in bed, and some modified clothing detergent bottles work best.
Feeding tubes I worked with were very easy. I don't know who routes them up the nose and into the whatever. Some people have one that goes directly into the stomach. Anyhow, hopefully your wife can set it up and keep it clean. But the actual use of it is very simple. The food is ultra-purified and kept at room temperature forever. All you do is plug a new sack on, and usually the flow button stays at the same slow flow.
Check with Volunteers of America, Catholic Community Services, Lutheran Family Services and 211 to see if you can get volunteer care givers. Some people give back.
You & she should control yourself around your 5-year old. The issue on that, is not her dad. The issue is that , is y'all haven't been disciplined to argue behind closed doors in a civil manner with a radio on and laundry going. Do it when the child is asleep or out of the house. Or take a drive. It is up to the parents to see it coming, & take precautions as a team. Whatever the issue. The is
The best thing you can do is to get your ducks in a row of what to do and where to send FIL when this happens. I strongly feel that she WILL see the light when she has been sleep deprived for a week or more.
Work on identifying several LTC medicaid NHs because he WILL be going back to one eventually.
Marybost - my daughter is an RN and is almost making 6 figures. Sometimes she has made more than her husband. When he went back to school to get certification, she supported them for 2 years. So, it is very likely that OPs wife makes half of their yearly income. Losing it would be a big thing.
So, my wife's Dad ended up going in and out of the hospital a couple times since Oct. Dehydration, pneumonia, covid, UTI's..he was put on a ventilator, and somehow recovered..my wife put the blame on the nursing homes, and pretty much ended the option of going back. She also put the blame on me as well, since I didn't allow him to move in sooner..and it took her about a day or so to come back around from that fight. Once she checked him out of those NH facilities, I knew that he would have no where else to go but our home. My wife has been sick as well, her health has not been the greatest..been to her endocrinologist, rheumatologist, etc. etc.. going into her health would be a whole other post, but in the end, she's not dying..but it seems she would get fatigued after working 7 or 8 days straight at her nursing job. So, about 3 weeks ago..she up and quits her job, without asking me..just says she can't do it, she doesn't want to do nursing anymore, BUT she is willing to die for her invalid father who now has a trach..and his condition has not really improved. With her quitting her job, it has put incredible strain and stress on our finances, especially right before Xmas. Her communication with me on this is nonexistent, and that's because she knows how I feel about the entire thing. I ended up doing some counseling, but had to quit that because I can't afford it..it seemed to help, but I have been using a couple family friends for my mental health.. My wife has chosen her ailing father over myself and our kids, and my heart has been crushed. I love my wife, and I know that she will not be able to do this, and will most likely get really sick, and then I will be taking care of her. She does not want to compromise at all, and she is ready for a divorce as that seems to be the only way for me to not live with her father. I don't want a divorce, I feel horrible for my 5 year old..he is an amazing child and very lovable..Her other family hasn't done jack shit as expected..i even called her brother and asked him straight up if his dad can move into their home, and he bumbled around but basically said NO...but I dont' blame him, the idea is just insane. My wife also says she will be getting paid $30 an hour for 40 hours a week to take care of her dad, but I have not seen anything to prove any of that. Everything I've read from others, seems like that would not be the case..and I could agree that it seems pretty far fetched.. So now my wife has been spending his meager SS $ on stuff that has nothing to do with him, so she is financially irresponsible. She purchased some cheap furniture, and some other crap that she had delivered to the house, and that pretty much confirmed that he would be moving on in. I guess she plans on making our 14 year old share a room with him..he is very upset about that, and has stated that he will move to his dads..i dont blame him..im hoping the dad will accept him. So now the time has come, either get the divorce or let him move in and let her burn out... Once she moves him in against my wishes...my family and friends will know what she has done, and then resentment will be directed at her from all angles..and that will pretty much kill any of our marriage that is left..once your family and friends feels a certain way about your spouse, well..its' really hard to stay with them at that point..you know once you know how they really feel.. the whole thing sucks..im depressed, stressed, anxiety higher than ever..but she just doesn't care about me or my mental being..she is playing the victim..and saying things like "well if I knew how you felt about the elderly, i wouldn't have married you". but she is missing it..it's not that I dont care about her dad..im not a mean, cruel person...but I put my family first,
You say you don't want a divorce, but sounds like your wants mean nothing to her. As you said, it's pretty much over.... she cares about her father way more than her husband or sons. She never left home, mentally.
You love her, but she has checked out. Sadly, we can't make someone love us. Or regain the love they once had. The lines of "if I knew how you felt about the elderly..." sound like excuses. She doesn't love you anymore and it's easy to pin it on the situation with her father. Is it possible that even if the father wasn't in the picture, she'd still have one foot out the door?
And yes, it's sad for kids when their folks split up. It's rough. No one with a modicum of sanity wants to put kids through it. But I can promise you, your son will be happier out of that house than in the current situation. Kids are more receptive than we give them credit for, and he probably senses something is wrong. He doesn't need to grow up around a family dynamic where Mother ignores him and you. If anything, you don't want him growing up in a situation where he learns that this is the norm for marriage... and thus marries a woman just like dear old Mom.
How would your kid handle grandpa being at home and in such bad shape? It can be traumatizing for a kid to see a grandparent being extremely sick.
In the meantime, with money being tight... if you know of any local organizations or churches that can help you, then ask them for help! A church that truly cares about people will be happy to work with you, whether you're a member or not. It may feel needy on your end, but remind yourself this is to save your kids from a situation that can scar them for life.
Eventually you'll be back on your emotional and financial feet and can pay it forward.
So, she has stated today "Let her just try for a month" and if it doesn't work out, she'll move him back into a nursing home...so I don't think that's a full on compromise, but more of her sort of giving in.. now, i know it's not going to work, not even for a week..
What is a fair compromise? is that even possible in this situation?
There is no compromise with her. It's her way and her buying the furniture proves that.
Keep firm in your resolve and do not give an inch on this.
Mom knows kids need protection, that's why she wants her dad move in, perhaps she has more time with kids this way. She didn't run away. If she goes to work, she can't stay home with kids 24/7 anyway.
1) It sounds as though your 14 year old is your wife’s biological child, and the two younger ones are the product of your own marriage. It might be a good idea to contact your 14 year old’s father, and check if he can take in his son. Even if it’s temporary, it might help in this dreadful impending crisis.
2) You wife’s ex knows her well. If you contact him, he may have useful suggestions. Even a shoulder to cry on might help you! You will need to be frank with him anyway, to explain why his son needs help.
3) Is it possible to work on a time-limited trial run for FIL’s return? W may find quickly once more that she can’t do it.
4) Can you get FIL assessed for Hospice? It might help, even just to get a professional comment on how long he is likely to live. For Hospice to be implemented, FIL would need a discussion about end-of-life care and a DNR. Your W has such strong views that he may never have had the opportunity to think it through. The discussion needs to be ‘private’ with the Hospice assessor, so that W can’t intervene.
5) You are very close to a divorce situation. Getting back from this to a loving relationship will be very difficult. It would be a good idea to consider divorce now, including the financial implications, living arrangements (possible house sale), how you feel about custody, and getting legal advice about all this. You are of an age where you may remarry, don’t forget that.
I hope that things resolve themselves quickly, and send you my heartfelt sympathy. Margaret
1. Yes, 14 yo is step son, but I treat him as my own..ive raised him since he was 6, and i have spent more time with him than his mom or bio dad. He is a good kid, very smart, but suffers from ADHD..but has made a lot strides recently at his first year in HS.
2. Dont' want to involve the ex until it's needed, and honestly..they aren't going to take him in..he has a new family, no room..bladdah blah.. I could do a better job shielding the 14 yo from any crap here..we will be traveling most weekends for his sports team at HS..we are going for 2 days tomorrow.
3. My wife keeps asking for a 30 day trial..I dont think she will last a week..but its in god's hands at this point. My wife will be over it soon when she starts missing our weekend getaways.
4. Not sure about Hospice..honestly, i think he could live another 10 years..but who knows.. I dont think he is any state of mind to make any decisions..wife is the POA.
5. I talk about divorce in another post.. I'm trying to avoid it at all costs..you get a divorce.lose your house, lose half the time with your kids..i wont be able to get full custody..been down that road..its a travesty the way dad's are treated. And just a note, I used the same lawyer that Tiger Woods used in his divorce..
Thank you for your post though, i appreciate it.
It is either that or she finds a studio apartment that she can live with her father alone.
He should petition for a restaining order against his wife. A temporary order where she would have to vacate the home for a period of in my state is 90 days.
She is putting her children's safety at risk. If she has to find a temporary place to stay herself away from her husband and kids, it will give her a chance to get her head together and realize this is insanity.
Your wife sounds like she could use some mental health help. She is not dealing with reality, but it does't sound like she has the ability to step away from her guilt.
Is her dad able to be left alone? What is her plan for emergencies? Is her dad eligible for hospice services?
If she tries,, she will crash and burn. It will be sad, but she will feel better having tried. It may be the only compromise available to you. She may need to prove to herself that it can't be done.
I can't see how your family and friend's opinions come into this at all.
I can't believe your wife thinks dad sharing a room with your 14 year old is a good idea. Your wife sounds mentally ill. What happens to the 14year old if he leaves and moves in with his bio dad? What if that creates a downward spiral in his life and he gets into things he might not have gotten into if he didn't have to leave because of your wife? It is obvious she doesn't care about what this is doing to her child either.
I really don't know how you get past what she is doing even if dad never moves in. She refuses to work now so all the financial burden falls on you. What a mess.
Please keep us updated.
People should be encouraging OP to keep dad from moving in not pretending that this one month crap is just a trial run. It is not a trial run.
This forum is filled with people who thought moving an elderly parent in their home would he temporary and found years or decades of their lives had passed before they realized they couldn't do it anymore. And many more are running on fumes as caregivers and are still doing it.
Divorce, temporary separation, therapy, patching it up (if able) will all take time.
You need action & help now.
I can't get past the basic logic/respect of this: TWO adults (you & she) share the home. If you say NO to Dad moving in, then he just shouldn't. Wife is not listening. So bypass her now.
Call the hospital where Dad is. Talk to the someone with authority regarding his discharge plan. Start with the Nurse in Charge or ask if they have a Social Worker.
Explain he will NOT be accepted to your address by yourself. Not by medical transport, not by taxi. Inform that you want this on the record as it may be needed for court.
Make it crystal clear: Dad is NOT to be discharged to your address.
I realise it is not a legal requirement of a hospital to ensure where a patient is taken after discharge. (Patient can walk out saying they will stay with a relative & jump on an interstate bus, go to a hotel.. could return to their hoarder house).
Legally I guess they can allow your wife to collect her Dad & then she is responsible for him. Where she takes him in her car or medical transport is up to her.
But. By speaking up, this may enact some MORAL brakes. Surely no staff member wants to discharge an old, sick man into such a fraught family domestic situation?
I wondering how much threat could be used?
As in.. "I have told my wife we cannot look after her Father in our home. I am informing the hospital today I will not be accepting him into my home. I am seeking legal council on this matter now".
"If I find my FIL has been discharged to my home against my will - has been brought home by my wife when I am out/away at work etc, I will call EMS to have him immediately transported back to THIS hospital."
"For the sake of this sick, old man, who I do care for, I want him to have a safe discharge plan. NOT to be thrown into this domestic situation".
"If my wife chooses to care for him, she can. But she must find an alternative address to do so in. There are children that will be greatly effectly by this also".
"I strongly request a family meeting with a Social worker before any discharge plans are made to ensure they do not harm my Father in law or children".
Tough love.
It's that or you give in. Trial the month.
Such a big issue. I think I'd sleep on it for a night if I had time.
Well said. The best way is to tell themat the hospital that if the father is released back to the OP home that he will call an ambulance and have him sent right back to the hospital. Also the part about seeking legal council. That's a given. This person needs a lawyer.
I would be very surprised if you are refused a restraining order from the court. They will grant it. What will end up happening is your wife will have to vacate the home for which in my state is 90 days. Your state may be different. During that time she will have to find a temporary place to live herself. Also there will be court-ordered counseling and family therapy because of the kids.
This may be exactly what she needs to regain her sense.
You have legal rights and do not have to tolerate this insanity because your wife wants to play Mother Teresa. No you don't. You have kids to think about and clearly your wife does not think about them.
Please visit the court house and file for a restraining order. Do not even give your wife an opportunity to bring your FIL home on a temporary basis for a month. She needs to be forced out of the house for a while to get her head together. It's for her own good. Please do it today.
If I were you I would have a consultation with a divorce lawyer. Your wife clearly has no respect for you or the kids on any level. This is obvious by her actions. File for a legal separation first. Ask for child and spousal support. Leave her with nothing. That will give her time to re-assess her priorities. I'm sure removing a bedridden invalid from a nursing home so she can care for him herself, will suddenly go very low on the priority list.
Yes. A serious but necessary step.
At a minimum, perhaps they can steer you in a direction, such as a restraining order that BurntCaregiver mentioned or something else that can help. If nothing else, with you having minor children in the home, they may require your wife to move out to take care of her father.
Also, get a family lawyer or a divorce lawyer as soon as you can. Maybe a lawyer might have a free consultation because this is an urgent/emergency situation.
When it comes to care of the elderly, there are no "good" choices. There is only the "least worst"--the choice that does the least harm to everyone's life.
If FIL is still in the hospital (it sounds like THEY are reluctant to discharge him home) I agree that informing the discharge planners that the home is inadequate for his care could be a good move. Here, they would send out an OT to assess the situation.
Has anyone looked into Board and Care homes?
Marriage and bringing up children together has so much more to do with communication, compromise and compassion than it has to do with "love". Love is not going to triumph here; it sadly looks to me like separation, if not divorce is a foregone conclusion.
You do know at the end of one month (and I am betting more like the end of the first week) when she realizes this is too much it will also be your fault...if you just did this or that to help it would all work out. We hear that one all the time with posters who took in an elder then are upset that their siblings are not willing to give up their lives to support the OPs actions.
I was going to suggest leaving for a couple weeks with the kids but if you do end in divorce that might not work in your favor. Maybe tell her she is free to go and care for her father but not under this roof, this home is for your children. In the meantime, get all your financial ducks in a row just in case this goes to worst case scenario.