So I created a post several years ago, and wanted to look for help based on the current situation. My father-in-law had a debilitating stroke a few years ago. He can't walk on his own, barely talks and has a feeding tube for nutrition. He has been in a nursing home the past few years, and recently he ended up in the hospital with a UTI. My wife now wants him out of this nursing home, and wants to move him into our home to take care of him. Here are a couple things to keep in mind.
Our house is not wheelchair accessible, bathrooms/hallways are a bit tight.
We have 2 small children that live in the house, she wants to put them into one room so he can have his own room. Or put him into the oldest one's room, he's not pleased with that idea as you can imagine.
No one in his family cares much about him, including his estranged wife and 3 other kids. He has a sister who wishes he was dead. My wife is the only one who wants to take care of him.
My wife is a nurse, and she is under the impression that she'll be able to handle his care 24-7. I know it's going to take 2 people to get him to the bathroom or to change his diaper.
He has no income besides Medicare, about $800 a month, and the nursing home has been using that for the past few years.
Now I've expressed my opinion on the situation, but I don't think she is taking anyone else into consideration. She has already closed his account at the nursing home, and he will soon be release from the hospital. I'm pretty sure she is just going to bring him home. She does not discuss any details with me. I told her that this decision could possibly break apart our family, and she is willing to go that route, BUT we are living on a combined income so I don't see how she would be able to do it on her own, much less with both of us on board. Me personally, I think he has had no quality of life in the past few years. No one has gone to visit him, including my wife. I don't see any way for his condition to improve as it has gotten much worse over the past year. If it was my father, I would have a talk with the immediate family about removing the feeding tube and let him pass. I know that is a hard decision, but lying in bed all day and not seeing anyone ever is awful. I've asked other family members on her side if they would be able to take him in, and of course no one will, they all have excuses. I've asked if they would like to move him to a different facility in their area/states, where he can be closer to them, and no one has stepped up. The facility he was at was a good hour or so from us, it was the closest one available.
Does anyone have any knowledge of what Medicare/Medicaid would cover for caregiving at home? What I saw was 35 hours a week, but not for long term. My wife said that she could be his caregiver, and they would pay her X amount of money, but I didn't hear any other details with that option so I don't know if we could afford that route. My wife would have to quit her current job, so we would be losing half of our income, and with the way everything is costing right now, we can't afford to do that. So I guess, my question is a couple parts. 1, how do I convince her that this isn't an option? Even if money wasn't an issue, I honestly don't think she could handle it. She brought him home for a holiday last year, took care of him for 2 days. After the 2nd day she had to take 2 days off of work because of the exhaustion. 2nd question, does anyone have any real life experience dealing with Medicare/Medicaid for home health care, at home care giving, so I have those facts ready when I try to have a discussion with her? Also note, this has been a very hostile topic, and has caused some knock down drag out fights, some occurring in front of our youngest child. I have told her numerous times, that I do not want this to cause these fights in front of the kids as it's harming them mentally. We've had some issues now with our youngest at school. Please help!
When a person is incontinent UTIs can happen.
The only solution is to tell her fkat out that he cannot live in the house with whatever consequences you want to give if she does it anyway.
Sorry about your situation. It sucks. And your wife sounds like she has mental issues. I mean knock down drag out fights over this. What the hell is wrong with her? I wonder if you look at other aspects of your relationship you may realize that she is not that great of a person over all.
The UTI was nothing major, and he has only had 2 hospital trips in the past 3 years from the NH, so I don't see any issue with them. I remember my mom dealing with my grandmother when she was in and out of the hospital every week just being in assisted living.
I think we all sort of have some mental issues, some more than others for sure. I do think this is caused from her upbringing. That would take a while to explain, but it wasn't a good one, and her dad fought to have his kids in his life. Now whether he did that to get back at his ex wife, or truly loved his kids, I don't know.
The big difference between a *trial of care* & the *real deal* is the other life responsibilities: especially children! Their needs, meals, driving here & there, homework support, activities, household cleaning/cooking/laundry.
In 2 days it is still possible to be deep in denial about how much time & effort will be needed.
The very obvious (to all of us, and you) is that this idea, while kind hearted, is a hard no.
Why at this point in dad's life is she feeling the need to intervene in such a dramatic fashion? Suddenly realizing that her dad is not going to live forever? Guilt over not being around him a lot?
If you are fighting over this NOW, then it isn't going to get better. But you know that.
My DH wanted to bring his dad to our house. I firmly said "no" over and over. Finally I said HE could bring dad to live in our house but my 2 youngest daughters and I would not live there. It got that nasty before he realized I was right---but when he talks of it now (almost 19 years ago!) he still paints me as the 'bad guy' who wouldn't take in his father. Still.
We should have had couples counseling about it so that 100% of the blame didn't fall on me, but it was what it was.
Barb had the best answer. Let your wife care for him in his NH for 2 straight days and see how she feels.
I heard someone recently referring to the same deal.
He had wanted to move his Mother in, spouse said no & copped the blame.
These folk need to OWN their behaviour, of ignoring & stomping all over their spouse's "NO". For wanting their spouse to OBEY them & also for continuing to blame.
Their own behaviour is indeed shameful!
Seek individual and marriage counseling. Encourage her to ask about why visiting him hasn’t been feasible but this total disruption of home, occupation, and family is.
Educate yourself about divorce and family law so you can ask intelligent questions when you see a lawyer.
Work out a plan for what to do if she unilaterally brings him home. If you stay and participate, your easiest way out is someone’s next hospital stay.
Do you leave? Do you take the kids or leave them with her; would you seek custody? Do you go to a hotel or to family/friends? Is your home rented; when does the lease renew? What rights do you have to accounts/assets and income?
If the fights are physical (literally knock down drag out) consider the consequences of a restraining order, yours or hers. Fighting damages your children, so if the only way to stop fighting is to separate immediately, do that instead.
Ask the lawyer about requiring disability insurance so she can pay support if she is injured doing a two person job by herself while sleep deprived.
Medicaid is essentially a form of welfare: bureaucratic, slow to process requests and payments, zero goal of competitive compensation. Not an employer preferred by anyone not desperate.
The home care help from Medicaid really depends on the state your in, some have good programs and some seem to have little to none but a quick computer search of your Agency on Aging or the equivalent, the state site under elderly and or disabled as well as your town who may have some services for at least pointing you in the right direction. It can take time however, especially since he has been in a facility because they are two different programs, at least that has been my experience. All of that said maybe approach your wife kindly and lovingly again (even if you don’t really feel that way at the moment) Ellington her you are open to ideas and want to really hear what she is thinking and feeling. Why was he put in a nursing home in the first place, who made that decision and why? What has changed since then for the better as far as his needs go? Why didn’t she want to take him in then and why does she want to now? You care about your FIL too and want what’s best for him and you want what is best for her, your children and yourself as well. Go from there and see if the two of you can more calmly talk through this obviously hot subject. You need to give her consideration and power in this decision just as she needs to give the same to you. The home and the kids are both of yours and both of your responsibility.
The things that should be considered here are other nursing homes if that one won’t take him back or can’t be forced to, who knows maybe another one closer to you has opened up but there is a better shot at getting him in from the hospital than from home so don’t bring him home until you have talked through the reasons he can’t stay in facility care.
It sounds like he might be a candidate for Hospice, I know they won’t put tubes in but I’m not sure how they handle a patient with one already, find out and maybe the two of you should sit down with them so they can tell you why they would take it out and if he would qualify with or without it because your wife may be able to see the forest behind the trees hearing what she already knows from another professional and if he wouldn’t qualify with or without the tube that also says something.
I can’t imagine wanting to move someone in on a feeding tube and bed bound already. Is he able to communicate in any way? Does he want to have the feeding tube? She isn’t thinking like a nurse rite now she’s thinking like a daughter. Nothing wrong with that and no surprise but if you can ask her questions that make her think like a nurse, what has to be done to care for a feeding tube, how will you get him to the bathroom, where will we put him, the kids need to have their rooms… Try, hard as I think it may be, to be support for your wife, go to meetings with other care professionals and participate, ask the questions she may not want to because she knows the answer, help her come to terms with the end of her fathers life here. Go out to dinner with the family, remind her of the things to look forward to, the things and people that give her strength and hopefully clarity. She probably feels trapped rite now, help her find the way out.
You aren’t wrong, in fact you are spot on but she needs to come to that conclusion herself and having some help and support is probably more likely to get her there than more stress and ultamatives. It may not too but try again.
Print off an article you find that you think will resonate with her.
Your wife who has never visited him there now wants to take him out of the nursing home and move him into your home.
Before any rash decisions are made and your invalid FIL is moved into your house, suggest to your wife that she start visiting her father in the nursing home a few days a week. You know to test the waters a little bit. If she had to take two days off from work because she had him for a holiday, this is not going to work out.
Your wife who is a nurse has real life experience dealing with CNA's, invalids, and elders. She knows there isn't going to be any 35 hours a week of aide care paid for by Medicare or Medicaid. That $800 a month income he gets isn't going to go far.
Your wife needs to hear a hard 'NO' from you on her father moving in. If she continues to be persist with this insanity, You will have to take your kids and move out. She will not be able to adequately care for two small children and also be a full-time caregiver to an elderly invalid.
Mstrbill is right. Your children will suffer the most. So will your FIL. Your wife for some reason wants to create the perfect conditions for elder and child abuse and she will if she tries to do this.
Make sure you have an exit plan for you and your kids. In the meantime talk to a lawyer about what's going on and what your wife is planning.
I’d also visit the NH, tell them the story, and see if they will put the discharge on hold for two or three weeks. You pay, or perhaps they use the room for respite. You may be able to deal with this better after this ‘trial period’.
And certainly don't help her move all this furniture!
Let her know that could happen if she thinks she can do the work for 3 full-time caregivers each and every day.
I like Barb's idea of your wife going to the nursing home and do the work of all the caregivers on her own for 2 days. I vote for 3 days. Working all 3 shifts.
It is reasonable that ALL the adults in the home get a say in who moves into it.
I know your wife says she will provide the 24/7 care, not you BUT by doing so she will neglect her role of; Wife, Mother & Nurse (+ earning?)
"My wife is a nurse".
She is not A SUPER HERO.
To think she is - is misguided (even narcissistic in a way).
So she is a nurse... she has that care instinct in abundance + no nonsense can-do practical skills + time management & organisations skills too.
But where is her Common Sense?
This is what I would do.
1. Explain your views again.
Set your boundary. IE if she takes Dad from the NH, she must go live with him elsewhere Or, if she moves Dad in - you will take the children & move OUT.
Explain again, her plan will BREAK your family.
She must find another way to help her Dad.
2. If no agreeable compromise, explain your views again - with her with a marriage councellor present.
It's amazing what a third party can do to let people start to HEAR each other & really get to the bottom of a situation.
3. Set a future path you BOTH agree on. Maybe a time limit is set? EG Wife & Dad move into an apartment for 6 months as a trial??
My guess is your Wife wants to be the *perfect daughter* & feels being the 24/7 is the way to show it. Wants approval from Dad even?? (I'm no shrink but have seen many, especially nurses, go down this path).
I would like to say GIVE IT UP LADY & find ANOTHER way.
Be the BEST *Advocate* you can for Dad instead.
I don’t think getting an apartment is an option. Rentals are very sparse here, and there is nothing under $1000/mo, and that’s before utilities.
The only way this could go is, she moves him in, I file for divorce, court would force sale of house. She would make $ on sale of home and use that to take care of her dad. It wouldn’t last, and then the fact that even with unlimited money, no one person is going to be able to handle this task. And now she’s a single mom taking care of her invalid dad, or trying to. Maybe hearing from a third party would be beneficial
I’ll try to answer everyone questions but I’m going to clarify a few things in this post.
1. we’ve never had a physical fight ever. I used the wrong term “knock down, drag out” but these fights are the worst we’ve had. This is really the one true thing that we have fought over, besides this our marriage has been great.
2. A lot of people asked, why didn't she visit in the NH, or she should go do a test run for a couple days. Well, couple reasons. First she got Covid twice and ended up long hauling it for a year, lost her job, no disability through her work. So she is one of these people who cannot wear a mask, and the NH is making no exception on that rule. Other reason is, and I feel this is the main reason. She says that if she goes to visit, she’ll want to bring him home. So guilt. Still to me, not a valid excuse to not visit. Her dad has 3 other adult kids, like I mentioned before one wishes he was dead, the other hasn’t visited but one time when he was here at our house for the holiday, so coincidental not planned. The other one has visited twice in 3 years.
3. Divorce is being mentioned, and lawyers. I went through a nasty divorce about 8 years ago, and I vowed I would never go through that again. I am so well versed in family law that I would rather represent my self, but again this isn’t an option. I love my wife and my family and I don’t want it to fall apart. I do agree, I need therapy individually and marriage, but I don’t know if she will go because she knows what they will say.
3. More info on options. We are in an area that got devastated by a hurricane 4 years ago. More than half of the NH’s in the area were destroyed and never rebuilt. The other family members are in bigger cities that would have more options, but again, I see very little effort to do anything. They are actually encouraging my wife to take their dad in, just so they don’t have to.
Overall, I know she feels guilty that she’s not providing care for her dad. I want what is best for him, I’ve probably visited him the most out of everyone. I’m pretty reluctant to start a conversation about it lately, because I know it’s going to end in a fight. I know that my wife is going to do what she wants no matter what, and that really upsets me. I’m putting my children first, and I honestly think that the only way for her to realize that this isn’t going to work is to try and do it. She also thinks that her dad is going to get better, that she is going to rehab him personally when it’s obvious that he is not going to improve, he’s actually declined over the past year.
Ill end this post with this bit of info. She does have POA with him, and I was pretty pissed off that she was the one to sign up for that task early on. I have asked her one sibling if he could transfer that to him, but again no action, just talk. I won’t ever leave my house, I did that in my first marriage and they used it as a way of saying I abandoned my children.
I’m praying to God that this will all work out, it’s caused tremendous strain on our relationship as you can all imagine. Thank you all for the support and advice, I appreciate it greatly.
No exceptions.
If your wife is so determined to have something in the home that does little more than lie around and piss in your house, buy her a cat.
1) FIL will not be taking over any child's room as said child will know about, if not witness, the bowel accidents, the feeding tube disconnects, and whatever slimy mess emanates, followed by the knowledge of death rattles and such. IN HIS OWN ROOM.
1a) She ships him there, she stays with him in your room while you are in one of your children's, or if you prefer, out in the living room sleeping on the marital bed that she's not welcome in for the duration.
2) Observe that if she can really do this, she can just go back to work, long covid or not. It's not like working at home through answering nurse calls or processing workers comp doesn't exist.
3) Do not offer to do anything for him. I mean anything. Do not get trained on how to assist her with a Hoyer lift. Do not mop up his fecal. Just tell her you're busy dealing with her kids for a choice that you never made.
You say, "please help!" How so? You won't move out, you tried that with the ex and it turned out to be a bad idea. Your wife has already checked her father out of the NH, so what are your options?
I'll wish you good luck and most of all Godspeed dealing with the hell that's about to break loose here, thanks to your wife who's refusing to take anyone or anything into consideration here but herself. I'm sorry for your kids, most of all. I think you should speak to an attorney about what
to do here, personally. Hopefully he'll have some guidance and suggestions for you that prove useful.
Do NOTHING to help her get ready for this train wreck. Do NOT allow her to move your children's bedrooms or make them share.
You've probably talked this to death but I'd say:
"I love you honey but I am 110% against this and am offering absolutely no assistance. I do not want your dad living here. It is not good for our marriage or our children. Or our budget. $800 a month social security? A nurse makes WAY more than that."
I like your idea of taking the kids on a trip when/if the dreaded day comes that she actually plans on taking him home to your house. Hmm, but then she might set him up in one of the kids rooms while you're gone. Might have to put locks on the outside of the doors to prevent that!
Even though you have no actual rights, I would call the hospital and let SOMEONE know that you, the hubby, are not onboard with her bringing her daddy home to your house and do not feel this to be a safe discharge.
Keep us posted. I am anxious to hear how this unfolds. I hope she comes to her senses, for everyone's benefit including her dad.
"And when she said "we don't put our family in nursing homes"
This. This is the crux of it.
If Dad stays in the NH, she believes she has *failed* him, has failed as a daughter, is a *bad* person as judged by her culture.
*No NH ever!*
Why? What's the underlying belief behind that statement? Is it "people who LOVE or CARE don't put their LO in nursing homes?
I think the way could be for your Wife to find an acceptable replacement statement - to tell herself & maintain her cultural dignity.
(It is her own thoughts holding her in this guilt pattern afterall).
Something like, I tried everything, but Dad's care needs are just too high for me at home. He needs round the clock care by a full team. I wish it was different.
It’s just possible that this approach might help.
You mentioned that your wife's brothers thought it was a good idea back then that FIL move in (why of COURSE they did; as MALES they figured it wasn't THEIR duty?).
How old are the kids now? The youngest is, what 4/5? And then there's a 13/14 y/o. You mentioned your oldest daughter, but then also a stepson. Are there 3 kids? (And if you divorced your previous wife 8 years ago, only the youngest child is your biological child?) Did you adopt the stepson?
You've stated that you will not move out of your house, since apparently you did that last time and then charged with abandonment. You've also stated that you are going to let it happen that your wife takes your FIL home from the hospital.
I'm wondering if you are really going to let her do everything by herself. I expect that you are going to step in and become fully embroiled in FIL's care when you are home "for the good of the kids" or some such belief.
Will you come back and at least update us this time?
I foresee divorce in your future.
I second the opinion that since you have no "voice" whatsoever in what is about to happen, then you truly step back, offering no assistance, as your wife moves her dad into the home. Absolutely, leave for the weekend, letting your wife know that you are doing this FOR HER. Tell her that you are doing this to allow her no distractions as she gets her dad moved in and settled, and you will get the children out of the way....this allows you to be the GOOD guy, because you are thinking of her, and removes you as the target of her anger. The more that you two butt heads over this, the more ammunition she has to be angry with YOU. Don't give her that opportunity!
And then watch as things unfold....when she needs help with her father, be empathetic, and tell her that the best help you can offer to her is to take the kids out of her way, so you are going to get them ice cream of dinner or go to a movie, whatever.
As others have said, leave ALL the care to her. ALL of it. The most that you will do is remove the children to "give her the room she needs to care for dad", and you are doing this for HER. This is the support you offer her.
And when her anger turns to you for not helping her, you can point out that you ARE helping, you are helping in the best and most caring way possible-- allowing her the space and silence to care for dad, which you will have to point out, is EXACTLY WHAT SHE WANTED.
People struggling with the effects of long COVID may have noticeable problems with attention, memory, and executive function. This sounds like a classic case with your wife. Therefore, no matter what you say, she will fight you tooth and nail.
If only your wife could see a neurologist, take tests, and see if there are any issues due to covid. Make up some excuse to make an appointment, even tell her the appointment is for yourself and you want her there for support, let the doctor know in advance what is going on.