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He lives with us. He is 84 widowed for 4 years, met her at church, 3x divorced. Has spent over 500K on this woman in the last year. Home, trips, credit card, etc. He and my husband have had several arguments haven't spoken in a month. He knows it's not appropriate, doesn't care. Doesn't care he is burning through his life savings. His expectation is we will pickup the pieces if he doesn't have any money. Our retirement plan did not included supporting 84 year old fool and his girl friend.

Why does he live with you?

I would be in favor of eviction. He clearly can support himself.
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NeedHelpWithMom Jul 31, 2019
Barb,

Me too! Smart answer.
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He's bought this lady a house and he isn't living with her in it?

How sure are you about the numbers, exactly, and how do you know what he's spending?

What actual conversations have been had? For example: you say "his expectation is we will pick up the pieces if he doesn't have any money." H'm. Is that his real expectation, or the sort of thing that gets shouted during an argument?

At a very low point, I once heard myself sobbing to my SIL that it would help if my brother could have a conversation instead of picking a fight. When there are many, complicated emotions in the mix it can be very difficult to *talk*. Are you involved or are you staying out of it and ducking crossfire?
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VictoriaD Jul 29, 2019
Unfortunately, yes. $$ My husband has view of his checking account. She is averaging 6k on his credit card each month. Additionally, his broker is my husbands cousin. So it has been a joint family effort to get him to realize he is being scammed. He says "she makes him feel young". Keep in mind that his plumbing doesn't work he went through prostrate cancer a few years ago. Biggest argument is our concern that he wont have money to pay for his care if needed. My husband retired last year, this was NOT in our budget. His Dad had always been fiscally responsible. This is so outside his character. He is behaving like a teen boy with his first girlfriend.
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If your FIL is as mentally fit as you say, there is nothing you can do. POA doesn’t kick in, even if you have it, until the person is determined to have dementia or other cognitive issues, stupidity not being among them. Basically, it’s his money and he can do as he pleases. Since this is causing stress and discord in your family, quite frankly, I would find an apartment for him to move into. His presence in your home must exacerbate these feelings of annoyance and anger for your husband and you. Dad obviously doesn’t care.

I can guarantee that when Dad finally blows through his money, his chickie will disappear as well. If, at that point, he expects you to support him and you do, that’s insane. If your husband gives any indication that this is what will happen, I would take steps now to prevent myself from losing all MY money. Have your Social Security check, if you get one, deposited into your own account. You are entitled to half of the assets and I would see an attorney to make sure those are protected from being used to support your FIL

Your FIL cannot be reasoned with because right now, he’s thinking with his...well, you know. Hubby should not waste his time arguing with his father. This is a Life Lesson FIL needs to learn on his own. It will be difficult for your husband to just remain quiet, but this is what he needs to do. This is why I’ve suggested getting FIL out of your home. If he is in need of care, turn him over to the chickie. She’ll disappear even faster then.
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VictoriaD Jul 29, 2019
Thats my thought we are SOL. He is in sound mind. "She just makes me feel young".
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If he were not mentally capable, the answers would be much different.

500K?? Seriously?? Unfathomable, at least in my world. Is she scamming him? Elder abuse? Maybe consult an attorney or do some googling on the topic? I'm sure he's not the first or the last guy to be taken advantage of!

Very difficult territory. Sorry that father and son are estranged over this. Leaves you in one heck of an awkward situation. Must be a little tense around the old homestead??

I guess you could say it's his money, he can do what he wants with it which may technically be true but I think she could be totally manipulating and using him and I would imagine your hubby is not thrilled to see all your dad's money going to a stranger vs being used for himself or for his own family.
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BarbBrooklyn gave my favorite response. Sorry, but I would now be doing an eviction notice. If he is well enough to do this then he is well enough to live with her or to live on his own with his money. Not sure how much is left after he spent 500,000 on her, but I would see to it he spends the rest on his own room and board somewhere else. You say he is in his right mind? Then he needs to take his right mind to live somewhere else. At that point it is honestly no business of yours WHAT he does with his money as long as he enjoys himself and doesn't expect anyone to pick up the pieces.
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This is regular happening here in Florida. I have a close friend whose father did exactly the same thing. My recommendation evict him, let her take care of him or he will have to go into AL, at least the money will be spent to take care of him. Unfortunately, from a legal standpoint, there is nothing you can do as he is mentally sound. My friends father sold his home, they took his money and moved into AL, which the funds were placed in a trust for both of them, he died 2 months later, it was a set up from the beginning, when he died, since the trust funds were in both his sweeties name and his, the balance of the money that the home held in trust was returned to her, she moved out and ran...his family ended up with nothing, she also sold all his silver collection and more. She knew what she was doing from the onset, he was 90 when he met her, died at 92, penniless. She didn't even attend the funeral which my friend and her brother paid for.
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Geaton777 Jul 29, 2019
Yup, similar happened to my cousin's half brother. That "b" knew exactly what she was doing. That old fool wasn't her first -- or last -- victim.
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Oh, how aggravating! The bar is so high to take guardianship of someone. It sounds like an incredibly frustrating situation. Does your FIL pay you anything for rent/care?
This makes me wonder if there is a way to put a clause in a POA stating that if I start acting out of character, even without a medical diagnosis, that my children can step in and stop me. Really, if I'm fortunate to live to an old age, the last thing I want to do is fall in love with some young Romeo and give him my life savings.
The elderly are SO vulnerable. They may still be cognitively functioning, but they are much less able to be rational and think clearly. They lose judgement.
I'm so sorry you're going through this.
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He feels so young again, he's got a mommy and daddy paying his living expenses, washing his dirty underwear, fixing his meals and he can spend all his money on his new hoochie. Yep, second childhood.

Time to grow up son, get out! And have that whore earn that money.

My dad lost every penny in a similar situation, one difference being that I absolutely refused to help him in any way as long as she benefited one penny.

He was mad as a wet hen, tough, because I guarantee it was nothing compared to how I felt about paying for his whore.

Dirty old men
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VictoriaD Jul 29, 2019
The hardest part, is my husband has lost the father that he looked up to and admired. I personally would kick him to the curb and not look back. Yes, I'm that ticked off. We went into debt to purchase a new home big enough to allow him to move in with us. He has alienated all six of his grandchildren. You do not tell your Grand "Daughters" about your hot girlfriend. It is just wrong and gross.
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When the next argument happens, let him know that you and your husband will not be supporting him financially when he runs out of money. When he runs out of money, he will be placed elsewhere and whatever his pension or Social Security will pay for it and you will not provide any hands on care for him. Or he could have his little side piece take care of him.
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VictoriaD Jul 29, 2019
Couldn't agree more, unfortunately most states have Family support laws. Where the family is required by law to support elderly family members. Our is that kind of state.
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She's averaging $6K a month - that makes $72,000 (not that I'd call it stingy or anything) for the year, not $500,000. Was it an incredibly nice house? - how did he rack up half a million?

How much has he got left?

The thing is. One thing that does dawn on some people at a certain point is the realisation that "you can't take it with you," and that if you want to spend you've got to do it while you've got the chance. And if he's always been the reliable, responsible type, and his eyes have been opened to the fun he's been missing.... well.

He can go and have fun. But perhaps not on the understanding that he can do so at your risk.

How about making him buy some really good long term care insurance as a condition?

I might sadly point out to him that if he runs out of money and needs help, it seems probable that his girlfriend will suddenly be the one who doesn't care. But I doubt if that would stop him either.

And her? What's she got to say for herself?
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VictoriaD Jul 29, 2019
that doesn't include the 400K house, or any improvements. He doesn't want to move in with her because it wouldn't be appropriate.
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I think you WILL wind up picking up the pieces of the mess he's made once the gold digger ditches him. We ALWAYS pick up the pieces of the messes they make, let's face it. Oh, we talk a good game......we're not gonna do this or that, yet we do, because in reality, who else WILL? God help us all.

Set up a come-to-Jesus meeting at your house between Ms. Gold Digger & Daddy right away. Let them BOTH know that since Daddy bought her a house, he has to move in with her immediately, so she can begin caring for him in their new place! His money will be running out shortly and the 6K per month she's blowing on crapola needs to be spent on HIS care now, that's just how it goes. She will proceed to dump him in short order and you can then SELL the house he bought her, recoup some of that wasted $$$$, and get the situation back under control!

That's what I'd do, if it were me, because he's thinking with his small head now & past the point of no return. Men. Can't live with 'em, can't shoot 'em. But you CAN get rid of their gold-diggin' girlfriends if you play your cards right!

Best of luck!!!
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pamzimmrrt Jul 29, 2019
I love this, but if the house he bought is in her name, the family may not be able to sell it.. it may be legally hers, and that sucks! And yes,, we always do seem to pick up the pieces.. But I am all about the family meeting with her,, but I bet she wont show.. LOL
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Have you done a background check on the harlot? It may be that she already has a record with the police (for 'elder defrauding' schemes). She could be a con artist with many aliases, please have a private detective check her out. Good luck.
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He is old enough to bring her up on elder financial abuse charges. Did dad put house in her name or his? Both? Look it up on county's recorders office website. Does husband have poas in place? See an elder attorney about putting dad's funds in a for benift of dad with his son as trustee. Dad not responsible enough to handle his funds and being scammed. If dad is owner of home send her a rent bill then eviction. May also want to consult about elder financial abuse also. If anything a threatening letter from lawyer maybe enough to make her turn tail and run especially if there is the threat of filing charges against her with the states attorney. May also want to speak to pastor so he can protect his flock, more she gets, less the church receives, just saying, it's financial for him, who else besides dad in the congregation have been taken advantage of ? Could give the church a bad reputation. God forbid if the women of the church get wind of the situation, it'll make soddom and gomorrah judgement look like childs play.
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Older SIL always crying poor me to MIL who lives with us.Latest scam was she needed 37000 so her husband could have surgery and insurance denied him. Busted her in front of MIL and DH when I asked her husband what was going on. Never denied, wanted him to try other treatment first. She had a fit cuz I said that we were told he was denied and she kept crying to MIL about needing 37000. I asked younger sister to intervene, she refused, not my problem, you deal. Had a talk with younger SIL husband, explained medicare/Medicaid, look back and penalty periods. Told him I asked his wife for help doing something she could handle from out of state. Let him know that if funds were taken/given that he had best be prepared to pay out 5 to 6 K a month, other SIL could pay other half, we WOULD NOT be paying anything. The one who took it and the one who refused to help stop it. Funny, took care of it asap. She was after what she could get of MIL house sale money. Also informed them that if I found money missing there would be aps and states attorney charges brought against her unless all funds returned via cashiers check within 48 hours. All cries for money have thankfully stopped. Sometimes it's the threat of being charged and going to jail that stops it. Be prepared for you wouldn't do that to your dad/mom. Only answer is watch me.
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I would definitely see if she has any priors (nationally). Then I would evict him. When girlfriend eventually kicks him to the curb, FIL goes into a county home via Medicaid. So sorry for you and your DH.
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If the lady has been married three times, she has ‘form’. There will be quite a few people who can comment on her past. These games are often ‘settled’ without legal proceedings and a police record. It could be good value to give yourselves a budget to hire a private investigator to do a check on her - perhaps easier than trying to do it all yourselves. The best option might be for someone from her past to meet FIL and tell the story.
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Take it to the pastor of the church, right away.
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TaylorUK Jul 31, 2019
Why? are church pastors experts in financial dealings for the elderly. He clearly didn't need religious guidance before so why is he likely to want it now. I would have thought a meeting with an Elder Lawyer, FIL and son might achieve rather more for his future earth bound security.
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Happens all the time with widows and widowers. So sorry. Same thing happened in our family. My FIL connected with someone immediately after my sweet MIL’s death. She wasn’t even a ‘younger’ woman. She was near his age.

FIL wanted to marry her. She refused because she didn’t want him to have access to ANY of her money from her deceased husband. She left everything to her kids.

Louisiana is a community property state so she wouldn’t marry him. She could have done a prenup for her house.

Anyway, fast forward, there were problems all along in the relationship. She was a piece of work!

We didn’t care if he moved on in an appropriate relationship at an appropriate time. He was vulnerable. This relationship was far from healthy. I think he may have felt trapped.

My husband and his dad were close before she stepped in. MY husband and FIL eventually became estranged.

This woman ended up isolating him from all friends and family by threatening to leave him if he didn’t do everything she wanted, go out dancing, dinners at expensive restaurants, extensive traveling, a new house in a different state that wasn’t a community property state, jewelry, a new car, designer clothing and accessories, etc.

Money was important to her. She asked him to pay for everything, which he gladly did. It was his business but it cost him his family and friends. I hope he was happy with her and it was worth it for him.

Money doesn’t buy happiness. Some of my happiest times in life was when I was first starting out and struggling. I had goals. I met them. Part of the journey of life that makes it meaningful. People and relationships are more important than money.

God knows we tried to resolve and heal issues but FIL was like your FIL refusing to listen to reason.

They moved to another state (not a community property state) threw us out like yesterday’s garbage. She never did marry him, even after they moved to a non community property state. The woman died 25 years later and now he wants to make peace with my husband. Not sure what hubby will do. He did call his dad because I told him that he may not want to have regrets later. He has not seen his dad and I told him that I will support whatever he decides to do.

It’s a little too late to be a father and grandpa now. My kids are grown and don’t know him. They support their dad. Perhaps they can have a civil relationship in some way. We forgave him ages ago. None of us hate him. No grudges. Not worth the time and energy to hold grudges. We don’t want bitterness in our hearts. We were forced to move on. I personally sought therapy to help work through it.

Life can get so complicated. FIL missed seeing his grandkids grow up. They would cry and ask why did grandpa forget about them. Tragic for innocent children.

He’s basically a stranger now but has returned to Louisiana and is living in an assisted living facility. He is 96 years old now! I am glad that he at least saved enough money for a facility.

I surely hope hope it works out for your family. It’s tough! Everyone has a unique situation. I hope there is hope with your FIL.
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She has a ‘sugar daddy’! My FIL was sugar daddy to a woman for 25 years! For some reason it makes them feel important but in reality they are being used.

The first time we heard my FIL call her by the pet name he called my sweet MIL, we wanted to throw up.

My FIL was down right cheap before being with her. Didn’t spend a penny more than he had to. She came along and he emptied his pockets.

MIL didn’t even have a housekeeper when she was dying from non Hodgkin’s lymphoma. He was too cheap! I cleaned for her. But he hired a housekeeper for her. Sickening!

Oh wait, he was very frugal with grocery shopping. She comes along and buying organic everything. That is, produce for salad, she made it clear that she wasn’t going to cook. They ate out all the time.

It’s so interesting to see a true character change in some men when this happens after being with women like this.

Thank God he saved money for assisted living because he sure as hell isn’t going to be staying with us.

We have my mom living here now. One parent is enough. Plus mom has always been in our lives. She is deserving.

He checked out of our lives to be with her. Glad he found a place to live. If money runs out at the ALF, oh well...My husband already said that he would not be willing to take him in even if my mom wasn’t here.
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lealonnie1 Jul 30, 2019
My parents were married for 68 years. A couple of days after dad died, a man in the ALF rolled up to my mother and asked her if she'd like to go on a cruise with him. She was a blushing young girl again at the age of 88, all giggly and batting her eyes, telling everyone who'd listen that she was Invited On a Cruise. It was like she'd forgotten all about what just transpired in the hospital bed in her apartment, watching her husband take his last breaths. It was all I could do not to strangle her right then and there. She was showing not one ounce of respect for my father or his memory and boy howdy, that pissed me off BIG time. She had some nerve!! Then I realized something......it was THEIR marriage and THEIR business, not mine. My father's memory would be respected and kept alive in MY heart and mind forever. How my mother chose to comport, or not comport, herself was HER issue.....much as your father in law's behavior belonged and belongs to HIM. You dwelling on this situation isn't going to change anything...whats done is done and its all on HIM. Your mother in law will always be alive in your heart forever, as it should be, and that's all that counts.
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VictoriaD, I've just been staring at the screen at your reply that FIL has not moved in to the $400K house he bought for g/f because "it wouldn't be appropriate."

😶

But. Does he mean because "it would be too public"? Does he imagine that he and she are not already a topic of considerable interest in his community? I think I agree with SendHelp, that asking his church's pastor for guidance might be productive.
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Get your husband to apply for financial POA and if necessary guardianship - clearly FIL is not in his right mind so go the incompetent route - hard but if tey don't agree then they are going to be agreeing state will provide care because you really must not.
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I was just thinking...

Pastors must hear all kinds of things. I’m sure they have heard it all, huh? Surely, they offer prayer and support and in some cases, practical advice or solutions to help. Not always, though.

Let’s hope her pastor has experience, education, training for dealing with life situations and compassion for her.

I know a friend of mine who went to her pastor about a particular family matter, her husband committed suicide in their home (over money issues) and their eight year old daughter found him. It was awful. The pastor at her church told her that he was not qualified to help her, nor did he have the time to counsel her. He told her to seek professional help with a psychiatrist, so she and her child went to a family therapist.

I guess it depends on the pastor. Some churches have pastors that don’t even have a theology degree, let alone any other degrees or training.
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The Clergy also expect a certain accountability by their church members.
Recall how Jackie Kennedy had to get permission to remarry in the Catholic church? Every church is different.
Does the church lady tithe on the $6,000 per month income?
If FIL is thinking it "inappropriate" to move in with his church lady friend, and they are members....bringing this buying her a house to the pastor's attention may bring some type of accountability that FIL will acknowledge, or, what is the terminology used? Be excommunicated?

Disclaimer:
No matter what any of us believe, accountability exists, and it still exists in the church. I know I have said too much, please don't shoot the messenger.
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NeedHelpWithMom Jul 31, 2019
True.
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Check with the police if you can file on her for scamming him or maybe get a restraining order. She might have done this before. Check her background. No way is that woman with him for anything but his money and I do believe she could get in trouble for scamming him.
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My situation is with a 85 year old woman that appears to believe she is in love with a 39 year old married man. I recently found out she's given him over $60,000 plus items he's
sold or pawned. In addition, she changed her will to leave him her house when she died.

Unfortunately I illegally have no options because she gives him permission to do these things and is questionabley of sound mind. What money she has left is not in my control. This is called exploitation, but because she begs to do what she wants too, I can't stop it. Help
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Lymie61 Aug 1, 2019
If she is "questionably of sound mind" you might quickly move on that. Contact her doctor and tell them your concerns, if you aren't listed on HIPPA it will just be you informing them but if no family members have a legal in or standing the doctor is the only one who might right now. Also see an attorney who specializes in Elder Law and or state officials who can help you navigate this, maybe. It isn't an unusual story but a warning, if your concern seems to be more about you or inheritance it will weaken your position with the people who might help and if she is of "sound mind" she has every right to be stupid with her money. You also have every right and reason to be clear about how much slack are able to pick up in the future if the money runs out. Her begging can't be the deciding factor for you, hard as that might be, it's establishing a bad precedent.
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I would definitely do a background check on the woman he’s involved with to see if she’s done this before. People can be into this kind of con game.
You never answered the question of why he’s living with you in the first place. But I guess that’s none of our business. Show these answers to your husband. The two of you need to be on the same page about moving dad out into his own place.
You aren’t responsible for him and before you get yourself in even deeper you need to evict him. Come back and tell us how you’ve handled this.
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She will most likely leave when the money is gone. It will be too late then. This is very sad all around. Maybe you could start preparing to put him on medicaid. If he is a vet, look for a a veteran home where he could stay when the time comes. I wouldn't let him stay with me, no way.
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Get your local Adult Protective Services on her. They might be able to scare her off with threats of prosecution for elder financial abuse. Has your dad had his cognitive skills tested?
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It is his money to do as he pleases. However, when the time comes ... and he needs care, well, that's what nursing homes are for. You are NOT responsible for his girlfriend !!
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There is nothing you can do if your Dad is “competent.” My Dad married a foreign national from Kenya at age 81, she was 48. She had been in the US since 14 YO and had a masters at tax payer expense. By the time we convinced him to divorce her, she and her family took him for a couple hundred thousand. Divorce cost another $35k, $40k in maintenance, and $22k in dividends from his retirement because there was no pre-nump. Infatuation at that age can be very costly to the whole family. It was a nightmare!
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