I just found out my parents' house is filled with trash and mice.
They have a 13 year old dog that does not go outside anymore.
They are sarcastic and mean.
I offered to clean up their house but they refused. They threatened me if I called social services.
Please give me advice. I cannot sleep.
Oh,there have been 7 snakes in a year and a half in the bedrooms and utility room. Help please! I am at my wits end.
Snakes can scare the life out of you, but many are not poisonous. All our local snakes on the farm are seriously poisonous, and seven snakes inside would be followed quickly by a trip to the morgue. DH did the snake handling course, and we have appropriate snake catching gear. Further north, most snakes are pythons, not dangerous to humans unless you wrap one around your neck for a good squeeze. Know your local snakes!
If you can’t control a hoarder, then probably all you can do is to report serious danger for others to an authority that does have the power to control. Yikes!
So hantavirus, salmonella, and LCMV aren't a concern for you?
Not only can you get ill from the droppings but, if left long enough they turn to dust and now it's an airborne issue.
Hoarding is relative. Mice attract snakes and most often mice are attracted to food stuffs laying out. Perhaps the old dog leaves a lot of food behind due to bad teeth or just that your parents over feed?
Dog feces and or urine certainly can be a problem if not dealt with. I feel for you there.
What are your parents' medical issues?
Save the dog. Kidnap it. Find it a good home. The dog didn’t choose to live in a trash pile.
"I offered to clean up their house but they refused." Hoarding is a mental health problem. You cannot "clean up their house", even if they wanted you to. Without the intense help of a mental health therapist well versed in hoarding tendencies, cleaning up their house is a moot point. They will just start over again and regrow the hoard. It's a vicious cycle without extensive therapy to curb these tendencies.
That said, if they are "sarcastic and mean", I would stop visiting. If their house is infested with mice, snakes, trash (and I would assume animal feces), they are not in their right mind. You said, "I just found out my parents' house is filled with trash and mice." It sounds like you are not close with them or visit often. If you feel you want/need to do something, then do it. Call their local APS and make a report. It is anonymous. If you are not in the same town/State, call their local police dept and ask for a welfare check. Call their local fire Marshall and tell them you suspect your parents are hoarders and are in unsafe living conditions which would result in disaster should a fire or emergency happen in the home. Again, call their local SPCA investigation unit and tell them the dog is not well and you suspect neglect and abuse. There's a lot you can do if you want to get involved and follow through. If not, walk away. But it sounds like you care. Don't wait or the situation will keep deteriorating until the hoard affects their physical health and eventually EMS will be called and they will be taken away. This is a VERY difficult situation when they don't want your "help".
I know it's a mental illness (similar to OCD apparently?) but I don't how 2 people both seem to have it? Or is it usually 1 hoarder + 1 peacekeeper? What about any kids? Do they rebel or sink into depression? Are they forced to leave early?
Can anyone recommend any good books on the topic?
I remember as a little girl that I just kept my stuff in my space and kept my area as clean as possible, 3 kids sharing a room was difficult. My 2 brothers didn't care, they were fine with the mess, this continues to this day. I tend to be a bit OCD now, not to the point of being mental about it but, if it doesn't serve a purpose it needs to get a new home. Organization and getting rid of something when you bring something home is my goal.
For many reasons I was on my own at 16. So I don't know if it had anything to do with the hoard or the miserable person that created it, or the 1000 other issues. I just knew that I couldn't live like that anymore or ever again.
There is no helping them. I spent 6 weeks cleaning a bathroom, the kitchen and a bedroom. I did this because her husband had part of his colon removed and I couldn't see him surviving being in that environment. For every 10 bags I removed, she brought 9 back in, she hid them and told me they had been picked up, she intentionally made a mess right where I was working every night when I went back to the hotel. I had to clean for an hour before I could proceed. This was her way of stopping me.
It is worse now then ever, before it was 3' deep, now it's as high as it will stack. Truly a hazard in many ways, yet APS can't/won't do anything.
I don't think her actions are personal, I think touching a hoarders treasures creates resentment and they fight back anyway they can. It is usually very emotionally charged when any intervention is attempted.
I don't recommend that anyone steps in and tries to help, it takes to much toll for not much progress, if any, it is bound to end as a fail, if professional help isn't involved.
I found that coming to terms with the fact that she can live anyway she wants, whether I agree or not, helps me deal better with her. Not easy because I wanted to help her for decades, yet, I am hugely relieved now that I let it go. And that is my advice to anyone dealing with a hoarder, bring in professional help and let it go.
Oh, the other thing that I have seen, not that the mess is unseen, it's that they refuse to actually acknowledge the mess and they justify why it is the way it is. Gaslighting is a specialty with my mom, she could teach classes she's so convincing. I just happen to know what she's doing but, to watch others by into it is freaky.
No one can force people with mental illness to let possible treatments and therapy work.
If the parents don't want help for their hoarding disorder they aren't going to accept it.
Some hoarders are so deep in denial of having a mental illness that even when the city/country they live in condemn their homes and they have to move, they still don't think it's their problem.
They move to another place and start hoarding that.
My former SIL is a hoarder. She was also a perfectionist like many are but also extremely lazy. Everyone including myself tried to get her place in order and to not be judgmental about it. Not for her sake but for her kids. She was a sarcastic ingrate who never had a moment of gratitude towards anyone in her life. Also an entitled narcissist who believes the whole world owes her. She went to therapy for years. All they did was validate her bad behavior and make it not her fault.
She's still an entitled, narcissistic hoarder to this day. No one can force someone to get better. So everyone who ever cared about her walked way one by one, myself included. If people don't want to help themselves there's nothing anyone can do. Walk away.
In all seriousness, just stop going over there. You're not going to change them so don't bother trying. I'd focus more on saving the dog than saving the parents. Animal cruelty is awful. I'd still call APS, just to do your due diligence (screw their threats), but beyond that let them rot in the filth. It's not your problem.
Mice are not nasty, all God's creatures and all that, but the big issue with them and all other rodents in the house but not in cages is that they have to gnaw to keep their teeth from overgrowing and they are regrettably fond of domestic wiring for the purpose. Cue fire hazard.
Glory623 are you still with us?
PS I've just realised that I have to declare an interest in stating that mice are not nasty!
PPS It's only a name. I myself do not habitually gnaw on domestic wiring or anything else.
Remember, rodents and vermin were responsible for wiping out two-thirds the population of Europe because they were carrying and spreading the Black Death.
Mice are nasty and bad. Humans should never be sharing their living space with them or any other rodents or bug.
There were some mice, but at the time he was still capable of setting traps and getting rid of some of them, but never took care of the main issue of the food being accessible and bird seed around that they could get in to.
I was also doing what some of the folks here mentioned about would sneak out expired food. It didn't do much but made me feel like I was making some progress.
And now that he's in a nursing home, I have a bit of a place to start with the paperwork etc. Hope this helps someone.
I took dinner over to them one night (gma was sick) and the little girl (age 7) climbed on the completely covered dining table and KICKED all the detritus on the floor and said "Just put dinner here". I did, but AFTER I washed down the table b/c the cat was always sitting on it. I was gagging--hadn't been in the house in months and I could not believe how filthy it was. They were eating within 3 feet of the overloaded cat litter box.
I was told that the load of children needing foster care is so huge that if the kids have food, a roof over their heads and one adult in their lives, that's good enough.
This woman, on her own, was super, super messy. Add 3 kids to that and you get serious problems. I have long since stepped out and away from the mess. I'm not mentally as stable as I could be, so it was best for me. I didn't help her one little bit.
Watch a little bit of 'Hoarders'. There's always a trigger of some kind that starts it happening. And it cuts across all lines of education, intelligence, wealth & location.
safety and health.
If you care about your parents you have to call and get some help.
Their interest is structural safety, plus they will bring in Animal Control.
North America has more variants of mice than OZ. Mice are vectors for various diseases, so the disease has to be there before the mice can pass it on to humans. Different mouse variants are hosts for different illnesses, and yes, some of them are quite nasty. The mouse variants and the diseases are sometimes regional – eg semi-tropical. It sounds like you need a combination of a large number of the wrong sort of mice, wrong locality, and bad luck in having a source of the disease for the mice to catch and pass on.
So I agree, get rid of those American mice! I’ll stick to baiting ours, and continuing the puzzle of how on earth they find a way into the house.
How a r e your teeth doing? 😁 🪥
Go back and tell them (if they understand/not dementia related) that you ARE going to take the trash out of the house because of the health issues. If you see one mouse, there are many more. They pee on things that end up being ingested. They cannot live safely like that. Also, it creates mice problems for neighbors. If they still refuse, tell them you ARE going to call adult protective and there's a good chance they will be removed from the home - depending on where they end up, there's an even better chance the dog won't be allowed. If they really love that dog (and they probably do) use that as the point to drive home with them.
it is worth it to call Social Services or Fire Dept for code violations.
They are not going to let you help them. Elderly can get into fearful and odd behaviors that they can't be talked out of.
If someone can assess them- like police do a welfare check and see if they can refer to a mental health service.