How do you figure out what it costs to have your parent(s) live with you?
My parents currently live with my husband and me. My dad has lived with us for 4 1/2 years and my mother has lived with us for 14 months. After my dad was living with us for about 3 years, I asked my mother to start giving us $100 per month. Then when she moved in, I told her she needed to give us more. Now they give us $200/month. I use their debit card to purchase things that only they use, but we pay for everything else. They do not feel they cost us any more than the $200/month they give us. I figured out all our household expenses (gas, electric, water, property taxes, homeowners insurance, food, etc.) and figured out that each person in the household costs $561.50. I want my parents to start giving us $1100/month. They feel that is excessive and don't want to give it to us. They still have their house - my mother goes there every day to pay her bills, go through paperwork, eat lunch and nap. She does not want to empty it and sell it. Their income is $3300/month - 2 social security checks and a tiny pension check. My husband is retired and only has social security. He does work a part-time job delivering pizzas. He is home with my parents all day. I work full-time but don't make a ton of money. After caring for them for all this time with such little compensation, we are really struggling financially, not to mention emotionally. There is no way they could live in an AL facility for $1100/month and get the kind of care they get living with us. Are we unreasonable to want them to give us more money?
Yes, parents should be paying something but Mom is still paying taxes and upkeep on her house. So I think 1000 is a little steep. Actually, Mom got away cheap at 100 a month.
Now, when it comes to the water bill, electric and gas bill, plus groceries, your parents should pay their fair share. Probably 50% of the cost.
I see your Mom is only 59 years old per your profile, that is quite young to be needing to with a grown child, yet still hang onto a house that she goes to daily. She must really miss that home.
Just curious, why are your parents living with you?
If you go this way, you need to draw up a rent agreement. Have it signed and notarized. This is in case Medicaid is needed. They will look at that money as a gift and penalize the parent needing care. If Mom sells the house, that money can only be used for her and Dad. Same reason, Medicaid will look at anything else as a gift.
And that doesn't even touch on the free labor you are undoubtedly providing.
Have them figure out what it would cost to go back and live in their own home and hire help from an agency to come in and do what they need.
It's your house. It's your choice if you want to make a gift of your time and your space. Decide what you would like to have happen, (do you want them to pay more? if so, definitely get this in a legal agreement! do you want them to move out?) then call a family meeting and make a plan.
After all... you could just put your house up for sale and MOVE. Then what would they do?
YES, your parents should pay you more. And what happens as they get older and you and your H need to do even more caregiving? Is your mother still going to expect the same deal she and your father get now?
Then she began to pressure us to let her move in. She said they would sell their house, we would combine households and they would give us a lot more money. We really did not want to do this as no one in the family (especially me) gets along with her. But, in a moment of feeling sorry for her, we gave in. We got several bids and eventually contacted a construction company and began having a bathroom installed in our basement. The plan was to make a living area/bedroom for her in the basement with a nice ADA compliant bathroom. In the middle of the construction she changed her mind and said she did not want to live with us. We were stuck finishing a bathroom that we did not need or want. My husband was insistent that she pay for it which she was extremely unhappy about. She pulled money out of a retirement account to pay us back. Now, she keeps throwing the fact that she paid for this bathroom and increased the value of our house. Even though I remind her that she wanted it and she changed her mind in the middle of the construction, she will not stop talking about it. That is the reason she won't give us any more money. But I figured out how much money they owe us at $500/month for the past 4 1/2 years for my dad and $500/month for the past 14 months for my mother and deducted the cost of the bathroom from it. The bottom line is they owe us over $10,000 which I am not asking for. I just want $1100/month from this point on. I would even settle for $800. I do not think this is unreasonable since they have disrupted our lives totally. They did not adequately plan for their retirement and we are paying the price. We are both angry and resentful. They will not move out and they will not fork over any more money. There are no other family members other than our two adult children. They are also both angry and resentful at the problems they have caused us. I'm trying to be a good daughter, but at what price? The stress of living with my mother is horrible. Then having the financial stress just puts me over the top.
Accept the burden of the new bathroom, rent the basement out for a year to recoup your expenses. You can only be a good daughter for so long without it affecting your own health. It seems like your Mum is used to getting what she wants when she wants it. But you have your own life and family to think of and put first at this point. You can still be a good daughter from afar.
Now, some of the posters whom I'm sure are trying to be helpful are not. One said that Robin316 "should be asking $550.00 (total for both parents) instead of $1,100 a month because (her quote) "as you said so yourself, each person costs $561.00 per month". Is this some sort of "new math" where $561.00 a month X 2 = $550.00 a month total?
Let the parents stay in their own home and let them get outside help. They're so old already (89 and 91), it will allow them to legitimately spend down any assets they have and by the time they need to live in a NH, they will probably qualify for Medicaid.
I've met very well to do women who are systematically giving their own children in their 50's the allowable annual gift exclusion so that these well to do women and their husbands will be able to give the ownership of their expensive homes and vacation condos to their children and let the poor American taxpayers get stuck with the bill. The children don't need the help; they have wonderful educations and plenty of money and I think Medicaid should be for really poor people. My husband and I sacrifice to pay our long term care insurance each month so that we won't be a burden on our fellow citizens.
One poster says that she "thinks $1,000 a month is A LITTLE STEEP" I would question if Mom and Dad are even paying property taxes. They would automatically get a homestead exemption and a further discount if they are disabled or over 65. I went to an auction last year of an 18,000 sq. ft. mansion. Both the tax assessor and the tax collector told me that the annual taxes were $26,000 but since the homeowners had less than $12,000 yearly income, they paid nothing. The electric bill for this house on a lake with tennis court and pool would have been more than $12,000 a year.
This poster obviously has never had to take care of 2 apparently ungrateful parents who in reality should be glad to pay their daughter and son in law for the loss of privacy and the strain on their marriage. If they are going to live permanently with these 2 nice people, I think that they should sell their house and give the money over a 5 year Medicaid look back period to them. If I understand correctly, Robin316 is an only child and would inherit the estate anyway. I feel sorry for Robin 316 and her husband and until the other posters have an exact situation like hers, they belittle her by telling her that she should charge her parents less. It is none of their of their business.
In the final analysis, it is nobody's business except that of Robin316's and her husband's.
I've met very well to do women who are systematically giving their own children in their 50's the allowable annual gift exclusion so that these well to do women and their husbands will be able to give the ownership of their expensive homes and vacation condos to their children and let the poor American taxpayers get stuck with the bill. The children don't need the help; they have wonderful educations and plenty of money and I think Medicaid should be for really poor people. My husband and I sacrifice to pay our long term care insurance each month so that we won't be a burden on our fellow citizens.
My mom is 93. Alzheimer's. She is still private pay.but will need to go on Medicaid at some point. Do I think there are people who game this, wealthy ones who gift and obscure assets? Sure. Do you know the stats of how much Medicaid pays for long term care of elders nationally? I don't know you meant to condemn us all for when we have to,make that most unpleasant journey.
If you will reread my post,
Of course, I did not mean to condemn " 'us all' for when we have to make that most unpleasant journey". Do you want a $ figure breaking down how much each state in the union pays for elders nationally? I don't have it, do you? And how is that relevant to anything? I know that my State is one of the 3 poorest states in the country. I know how little there is available for Medicaid. Do you think that I am not part of the "us all" of which you speak? Do you think that I have not had to make the same "journey" of which you speak? I had to make it 3 separate times with a grandmother with dementia and 2 parents, all of whom lived into their 90's. I have "been there, done that" (what you are only anticipating but have not yet had to go through). I started taking care of my grandmother when I was 35 years old. My mother was not emotionally strong enough to take care of her own mother (my grandmother) or my father, But I am in a unique situation in that in the last 15 years, I have been in 3 separate church groups which sing at retirement/AL, Long Term Care and Skilled Living facilities weekly, 10 months out of the year. (My own grandmother was in Skilled Living for 9 years until her death). I spent every penny of her assets to keep her in a nice facility which did not accept Medicaid. She made the money and I thought her money should be spent on her. She was "spent out" one year before her death at which time I moved her to a Medicaid facility.
I heard the rich women of whom I speak say about one of the facilities where we sang "this place is so expensive to live in; who could live more than a couple of months (at $5,000.00) a month"? These same women spoke of their condos in Florida and their 6,000 sq. ft. houses in one of the 3 most affluent cities in our state. Do I think that what they say that they are doing is dishonorable? Yes I do and I stand by my statement. They are systematically giving away to their children what they should be saving for their own retirement and we taxpayers will have to pay for them (and their husbands) to be taken care of when it should be her own (now even wealthier) children. My husband and I also took care of my MIL and basically ruined our retirement plans because we felt that we had to "make up to her" for the verbal abuse she received from my FIL. She didn't meet Medicaid guidelines for ADL's until 2 weeks before her death. Her only income was her deceased husband's SS check. So we heavily subsidized her stay at a nice facility. My husband and I bought Long term care insurance 10 years ago. If you will read my posts, I told "Maggi Mai" (who said that she wouldn't dare ask her own FIL for money) that perhaps her FIL had been helping her and her husband for years. "Maggi Mai" said that she didn't think that Robin 316 should ask her mother (who apparently had been a "bi**h" to Robin 316 all of her life) to pay $1,100 a month for both of Robin's parents to live in Robin's and her husband's house. Perhaps Maggi Mai and her husband don't need the money. Perhaps her husband doesn't have to deliver pizzas part time as Robin's husband has to do to make ends meet. I told Maggi Mai that she did not have the right to tell Robin 316 how much $ Robin316 should ask Robin's parents to pay to stay in Robin and her husband's house and that Maggi Mai was the only poster who thought it was her business to tell this poor desperate Robin 316 that she should not ask for so much.
I respectfully tell you "Welcome to my World". I regret that I have probably forgotten more than you will ever experience about eldercare, private pay, Medicaid, hiring sisters, etc. Have you ever had siblings who think that the money you spent on your grandmother and parents (which your grandmother and parents earned) should not have been on them because your siblings believe that it should have been part of their inheritance? Hope you never have to experience any of this.
You might want to look at a compromise. ‘Marginal cost’ (just the extra power bills etc) is not a good idea – all that extra stress for nothing. Full ‘share’ cost seems a lot to them, mostly because they are still meeting fixed costs for their own house. They are probably pointing out that if they decide to leave, you will be out of pocket because you still have to pay the fixed costs without getting their share. However they are getting very little value from their own house – something like having their cake and eating it too. You can reasonably say that if they want to ‘waste’ money on an extra house, that is their problem and they should pay for it themselves.
The other complicating factor is the care services you are providing. You haven’t given any details, but you need to put a figure on them separate from rent. Cooking? Shopping? Laundry? Transport? See if you can break down the local AL charge between apartment rent and service charge. That gets added onto your compromise rent.
This is a bargaining situation. You need to work out what charge will make it worthwhile putting up with the stress. They need to work out whether they are willing to pay the charge you want. Good luck!
talk Turkey NOW.
I know it feels cold and hard-nosed, and I know a cynic "is a man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing," but bills are bills and facts are facts. Even if you and your husband could afford to subsidise them, could your mother give you reasons why you should?
Money is an emotional subject, as your mother shows by her adherence to maintaining a house she doesn't need and - by her own logic, seeing as she feels the amount you're asking for is excessive - can't afford. So try to keep your temper, your sense of humour, and your aim of providing them with good care in mind; but push ahead. This issue needs resolving.
If my understanding is correct, perhaps you need to explain to your mother that you and your husband are now faced with a difficult financial decision. You may need to decide to sell your home and find something less expensive just for the two of you. Another option would be for your parents to contribute their share of the total living expenses. This way you are making adult financial decisions and not asking for a bail out. Give them a deadline, they would need to be out before the house goes on the market.
When my aunt was still able to think and make decisions, she went with us to an Elder Lawyer who knew state law, and federal. First, the lawyer took Rose alone to make decision that Rose was competent, then together they rewrote her will. Next, they rejoined us and she asked if we were all willing for Rose to pay us one third of our groceries, and utilities bills. That got put in writing. If not, then we should get paid more and use it as income, and pay taxes on it. We all agreed, and it was WAY more than $100 a month. She did not pay any of our property tax, as that wouldn't change if she lived with us or not. Good luck, and make the decision fair, written and witnessed.
Before you do anything regarding finances, you & your husband need to agree upon whether you want your parents to stay living there or not. Again, it is YOUR home & you 2 get to make the decision, not your parents. If you’re not sure, waffling back & forth between the 2 options, writing down the pros & cons of each scenario might help you. Being a list maker, it always helped me. Would you be able to financially afford the house if they weren’t there? Would you downsize if they moved? Those are 2 big questions couples our age are starting to ask ourselves. And this decision regarding your parents impacts your retirement life as well.
Regardless of whether you decide to let them stay or not, an elder care lawyer is a must. They will help you navigate this and come up with a fair solution. It might be suggested the past money spent is just that – gone & done with – a bad decision – move on from it. Yeah, it’s hard, especially since you wouldn’t have done it on your own. Don’t waste time or emotion on it anymore. Use that for what is next.
Whatever the decision, “Mom & Dad, we can no longer support you financially and physically. Changes have to be made and these are them.” Of course there will be wailing & whatnot – and why shouldn’t there be? Their cushy life AT YOUR EXPENSE is coming to an end. “We can’t afford that because we have our own house to pay bills on.” Well, then, LIVE there or sell it & live elsewhere (or here). Would an ALF take that excuse as to why they can’t pay their expected monthly expense? Would paid caregivers? Heck, would a restaurant after eating there? Time to buckle up, Buttercup. A therapist can help you with that – you have every right to your expectations. Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries. Mom is a bully, always has been, and knows she can wear you down. You can’t change her; you can only change your reaction. I don’t care how old your parents are & how much time they have or don’t have left. Your time left & life now matter, too.
I’m truly sorry if this comes across terrible. I have faced the same decision with my in-laws and I understand the frustration. No, they didn’t live with us, but they certainly expected us to stop our lives so they could continue living their lives in the way they were accustomed to living them. I felt disloyal and like a bad person because I didn’t feel comfortable setting boundaries and putting our lives first. This forum gave me the strength to set those boundaries and push back in order to keep them. Again, YOU MATTER.
P.S. I’m in the “they pay half of all household expenses” camp (well maybe not the property tax but everything else) AND for paid caregivers. You can negotiate your way down from there if you are willing. This is reality; time for everyone to face it.
Momma isn't going to become easier to deal with.
Great answer kdcm
Kept her condo, updated it and rented it out
I manage all the finances, which means I pay her condo expenses (taxes, common charges) out of her accounts. I pay my co-op maintenance out of my account.
Things that are just for her: commode, shower chair, home aides, etc. come out of her account/credit card (which I pay for from her accounts)
Things that are just for me, I pay for.
Things we both use: food, electricity, phone, cable, etc., I split.
Works well for us.
Periodically I go over her finances with her, and luckily, because of what she has coming in, we've been able to maintain a status quo, but by all means they should be paying more than $100/month, although not necessarily a full "roommate" share if they can't afford. More if they can.
No wonder no one can deal with mom, she is a classic narcissist and you do not have to give them a relatively free place to live.
Forget about getting paid, get them out, she will only get worse and if it's hard now imagine her believing that she is the mistress of your house.
So, in home care, they pay for and you visit when you choose.
You are a grown woman and the time of her telling you how to live your life has long since passed. Get her out, should be easy, load everything up when she goes home for the day and make a delivery while someone is at your house re-keying locks.
Sometimes dealing with this type of person it requires extreme measures and it sounds like you are there.
They are moochers, I live with my son and his wife, have my own space, am independent except for transporting to doctors. They are loving and concerned. I give my total so check to my son, ( 1400) a month, he gives me a
generous allowance with a debit card of my own.
I am so grateful, it’s time for a reality check, why are they still using their home? Taxes, utilities, no way!
The stress you are enduring is not worth taking care of parents that are not grateful and at least paying their own way, never mind using your frugal means to pad their income.
This is not a matter of abuse on your side, they are abusing you. You need intervention to explain the situation to them. Good luck!
Sorry but imo the present situation is ridiculous. They aren’t indigent and are costing you money.
I wouldn’t give them the option of moving back to their house. That needs to go unless they are willing to pay all expenses for it PLUS all lawn care, maintenance, weekly housekeeping , some kind of delivered meals. There was a reason they moved in with you, if they couldn’t meet their own needs then , they can’t meet them now and considering they don’t want to pay you now ,if you don’t step away from the train wreck now, you’ll get roped into doing it for free.
My mother was going to move in with us, and I asked her what she wanted to contribute. She was willing to give us what she paid at her independent living facility. Ultimately she decided to stay there as she wanted her independence. Now she's an invalid, but she worked it out so that she has care and a bit of independence. She'll be 100 in 2 months. They can do it if they really want to.